Report of the Committee Appointed to Investigate the Railroad Riots in July, 1877, by Various

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE
APPOINTED TO INVESTIGATE THE
RAILROAD RIOTS IN JULY, 1877.

Mr. Reyburn, from the committee appointed to investigate the causes of the riots in July last, made a report; which was read as follows, viz:

To the Honorable the Senate and House of Representatives of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania:

The committee appointed on the 3d day of February last, by virtue of a concurrent resolution of your honorable bodies, which resolution reads as follows, viz:

"Resolved, That a committee consisting of five members of the House of Representatives and three Senators, none of whom shall be from any of the counties in which said riots occurred, be appointed, whose duty it shall be to examine into all the circumstances attending the late disturbance of the peace in certain parts of the Commonwealth, known as the railroad riots, and endeavor, if possible, to ascertain the causes, and by what authority the troops of the State were called out, for what purpose, and the service and conduct of the same; and said committee shall have power, in pursuing their investigations, to send for persons and papers, examine witnesses under oath or affirmation, administer oaths, and employ a competent phonographer to take all the proceedings of the committee, and the testimony; the committee shall report in full, in writing, to the Senate and House of Representatives within twenty days, &c.,"

On the 4th day of February, 1878, the committee met at Harrisburg, and organized by the election of William M. Lindsey as chairman, Samuel B. Collins as clerk and stenographer, and J. J. Cromer as sergeant-at-arms. At said meeting it was also decided to commence taking testimony, first at Pittsburgh, that being the point where the first, and by far the most serious, riots occurred.

Your committee arrived at Pittsburgh at half-past eleven, P.M., February 5th, and on the 6th instant met at the orphans' court-room in said city, the authorities having kindly tendered the use of the same to the committee for the purposes of the investigation, and discussed the manner in which the testimony should be taken, and what class of witnesses should be subpœnaed, whereupon it was decided that the chairman should conduct the examination of the witnesses generally on behalf of the committee, and that all citizens who knew any facts of importance should be subpœnaed to testify and to furnish to the committee the names of those known to possess valuable information. The taking of testimony was commenced on February 7th, and proceeded with as promptly as possible. After a =week's continuous work it became evident to the committee that they could not accomplish the work required of them and report within the time named in the above resolution. They therefore returned to the capital and presented to your honorable body a preliminary report setting forth what they had done, and what was still necessary to be done to complete the work required of them, when the following resolution was adopted by the Senate and House of Representatives:

Resolved, (if the Senate concur), That the joint committee of the Senate and House of Representatives, appointed to investigate the late railroad riots, etc., be and are hereby authorized to pursue their investigations according to the plan indicated in their preliminary report, and that to this end an extension of time over and above the limitation of twenty days of the resolution under which they are acting be given and granted under this direction, that the committee make a full and thorough inquiry, and report as soon as practicable. The committee afterwards took testimony at Harrisburg, at Philadelphia, at Scranton, and at Reading, and have made as thorough an investigation of the matter submitted to them as they reasonably could. As the result of the testimony taken, your committee is of the opinion that the following state of facts has been proved, viz:

The Pennsylvania Railroad Company, some time after the panic in 1873, reduced the wages of its employés ten per cent., and on account of the general decline in business made another reduction of ten per cent., which took effect on the 1st day of June, A.D. 1877; these reductions to apply to all employés, from the president of the company down to those whose wages by the month or otherwise amounted to one dollar per day or less.

These reductions applied not only to the Pennsylvania railroad proper, but also to the roads which were run by the Pennsylvania Company, a corporation controlling several railroads, including the Pittsburgh, Fort Wayne and Chicago railroad and the Pan Handle railroad, each having one of its termini at Pittsburgh, and running these railroads in connection with the Pennsylvania railroad, and all being practically under one management.

These were not the only railroads in the country to reduce the wages of employés, a reduction of ten per cent. having gone into effect on the New York Central railway on the 1st day of July, A.D. 1877, and a similar reduction on the Baltimore and Ohio railroad on the 16th day of July, A.D. 1877; your committee having no information as to whether or not any prior reduction had been made by the last named roads. In consequence of these reductions of wages a great deal of dissatisfaction was produced among the employés of the roads, especially those known as trainmen, consisting of freight engineers, firemen, conductors, brakemen, and flagmen.

These employés had consulted together in relation to the question of wages, and as the result of these consultations, a committee had been appointed some time the latter part of May, composed principally of engineers, who waited on Thomas A. Scott, President of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, and stated the position of the men and their alleged grievances. Colonel Scott talked frankly with the committee, and stated the position of the railroad company, which was, in substance, that in consequence of the depression in all branches of trade, commerce, and manufactures throughout the country, the business of the company had so fallen off that it became a matter of necessity to reduce the wages of the employés, and, that as soon as the business of the company would warrant it the wages would be increased. The committee expressed their satisfaction at the statement made by Colonel Scott, and said they would go back to Pittsburgh and report the same to the employés, and that everything would be satisfactory and all right thereafter. The committee retired, and soon returned with their views set forth in writing, and signed by them, stating that their conference with Colonel Scott had proved satisfactory, and that his propositions were acceptable to the committee. No complaint as to wages was made thereafter by any of the employés of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company or of the Pennsylvania Company to any of the proper officers until after the strike of July 19th.

Immediately after the order for the ten per cent. reduction, to go into effect on June 1st, 1877, was issued, the employés of the different railroads having their termini at Pittsburgh, commenced agitating the question of a strike on account of said reduction, which agitation resulted in the organization of "The Train Men's Union," a secret, oath-bound society, the declared object of which was the protection of its members, in all lawful ways, by combination, but more particularly to bring the railroad companies to terms by all striking on a given day, and leaving the railroads with no men of experience to run the trains. The first meeting to organize a lodge of the society was held in Allegheny City, on the 2d day of June, A.D. 1877, and the first person to take the oath of membership was R. A. Ammon, better known as "Boss Ammon," then a brakeman on the Pittsburgh, Fort Wayne and Chicago railroad, who had been in the employ of the company about nine months. Boss Ammon seems to have been the leading spirit of the society, and he was immediately appointed as general organizer, to go out and organize branches of the Union on all the leading trunk lines of the country, especially on those centering at Pittsburgh. In a short time the Union was in full working order on the Pennsylvania railroad, the Pittsburgh, Fort Wayne and Chicago railroad, the Baltimore and Ohio railroad, the New York Central railroad, the Erie railway, and the Atlantic and Great Western railway, and some others, and a general strike by the members of the Union was arranged to take place on the 27th of June, A.D. 1877, at twelve o'clock, noon. The report of the committee of engineers of the result of their conference with Colonel Scott was not satisfactory to the members of the Union, they believing, or at least saying, that the engineers were only looking after their own interests and taking care of themselves, and therefore the action of the committee did not arrest the preparations going on within the Union for the proposed strike. Allegheny City was the headquarters of the organization, and it was here that the general arrangements for the operations of the Union were perfected, the members claiming that at least three fourths of all the train men, whose headquarters were at the two cities of Pittsburgh and Allegheny City, belonged to the organization. The proposed strike on the 27th of June was to take place on the Pennsylvania railroad, the Pittsburgh, Fort Wayne and Chicago railroad, the Allegheny Valley railroad, Pan Handle railroad, and the branches of the roads named, the Union having been more thoroughly and better organized on these roads than on any others, and the movements were to be directed from Allegheny City. Other roads were to be brought into the strike as fast as possible, so as to make it general and comprehensive.

In accordance with this plan of operations, on Sunday, June 24th, some forty members of the Union were sent out on the different lines centering at Pittsburgh, to notify the members on these roads of the time for the strike to take place, and to make the necessary arrangements to make it a success. On Monday night, June 25th, a meeting of the members of the Union on the Pan Handle division was held, and it was there developed that a portion of them were dissatisfied with the proposed strike, and trouble ensued on this account. It was also ascertained that some member or members had divulged the plans of the Union to the railroad officials, and that the latter were taking measures to counteract and defeat the strike. The moving spirits saw at once that with divided counsels, and their plans known to the railroad officials, the strike, if commenced, would prove a failure, and measures were at once adopted to prevent it from taking place by writing and sending word to all points possible in the short time left. The strike did not take place on the 27th, and the members of the Union felt as if they had met with a defeat, which left a sore spot in their bosoms, and which rankled for a long time. It may be well to state here that the subsequent strike on the Baltimore and Ohio railroad, at Martinsburg, West Virginia, on the 16th of July, and the strike at Pittsburgh, on July 19th, was not a strike of the Trainmen's Union, nor did the Union, as an organization, have anything to do with either, there having been no meeting of the society either at Pittsburgh or Allegheny City, after the 27th of June, 1877, up to that time. The main and almost the only grounds for the proposed strike was the ten per cent. reduction of wages, although some complaint was made of the abuse of power and overbearing actions of the minor railroad officials. Some time in July, 1877, the Pennsylvania Railroad Company issued an order that all freight trains from Pittsburgh east to Derry should be run as "double-headers," the order to take effect on the 19th of that month.

A so called "double-header" consists of thirty four cars, and is hauled by two engines, a single train consisting of seventeen cars, hauled by one engine. This was one of the measures of economy adopted by the company in consequence of the great reduction in business, caused by the financial situation of the country, and the reduced rates at which the business was done, caused by the great competition of the different railroads to secure business, and would enable the company to dispense with the services of one half of their freight conductors, brakemen, and flagmen on the Pittsburgh division of the road between that place and Derry, as only one set of men, aside from the engineers and firemen, were used on a "double-header." One engine could haul the same train from Derry to Philadelphia that it took two engines to haul from Pittsburgh to Derry. "Double-headers" had been previously run between these two points, especially coal trains, but no general order for all freight trains to run as "double-headers" had ever before been issued. In selecting men to discharge under the order to run "double-headers," single men, and men who had been the shortest time in the employ of the company, were chosen, and the men with families, and old men, were kept so far as they could be. Quite a number of men had been discharged by the company prior to this time, some for cause, and more on account of the decrease in business since the panic of 1873; and the company had still in its employ many more men than could be employed at full time, keeping them along and allowing them each to work a portion of the time, probably believing in the old adage that "half a loaf is better than no bread."

Robert Pitcairn, the general agent and superintendent of the Pittsburgh division of the Pennsylvania railroad, had leave of absence for a short time, to commence on the 19th of July, and that morning he left for the east with his family, over the Pennsylvania railroad, no complaint, as he says, having been made to the officers of the company by the men, on account of the order to run "double-headers," and he having no knowledge or suspicion that any trouble was brewing or expected. The early morning freight trains left Pittsburgh as "double-headers," but when the time (8.40 A.M.) came for the next train to leave, the men (two brakemen and one flagman) refused to go out on a "double-header," and the train did not go. The conductor notified the dispatcher that the men had struck, and the dispatcher undertook to find men who would go, but all the train men refused. He then made up two crews from the yard men, and gave orders for the engine to back down and couple on the train, when the striking men, led by one Andrew Hice, threw coupling pins and other missiles at the brakeman who was attempting to couple on the engine, one of which hit him, and, in the words of one witness, he had to run for his life. There was some twenty or twenty-five men in the crowd at this time; all men in the employ of the railroad company. The strikers took possession of the switches over which the trains would have to move, and refused to let any train pass out, and their number was from this time gradually increased by the addition of the men who came in on freight trains, who were induced to join the strikers as fast as they came in. Between ten and eleven o'clock, A.M., David M. Watt, chief clerk of the Pittsburgh division, who was acting in place of Mr. Pitcairn in his absence, went to the mayor's office and asked for ten policemen to be sent up to the yard of the company, to protect the men who were willing to go out on the trains, and arrest any one who should commit a breach of the peace, telling the mayor that, in his opinion, ten good men, with his (the mayor's) presence, would be sufficient for the purpose.

The mayor answered that he did not have the men; that the day force, with the exception of nine men, had some time previously been discharged by the action of the city council, and he could not send the night force, and also refused to go himself, saying he had other business, and it was not necessary for him to be there. He said, however, that they might get some of the discharged men to go, if Mr. Watt would become responsible for their pay, to which Mr. Watt assented, and the ten men were found, sent out under charge of Officer Charles McGovern. This force went along with Mr. Watt to the Twenty-eighth street crossing, the scene of the difficulty, and five of the police were placed at one switch just above Twenty-eighth street, and Officer McGovern with the balance took possession of a switch just below Twenty-eighth street. An engine was there ready to back down and couple on to the train, and Mr. Watt gave orders to one of his men to open the switch, so the engine could run down on the proper track, but the man refused, saying he was afraid he would be injured by the strikers if he did so. Mr. Watt then stepped up and said "I will open the switch," when a brakeman by the name of Davis stepped in front of him, and said "boys we might as well die right here," and made some demonstrations. At this moment a man named McCall, standing behind Davis, struck Mr. Watt in the eye; that ended the attempt to open the switch at that time. After some difficulty and considerable chasing, McCall was arrested by the police, and taken to the lock-up. At this time, between twelve and one o'clock, P.M., there was about one hundred persons in the crowd, about one half of which were mere spectators. Twenty-five or thirty of the strikers attempted to prevent McCall's arrest by dodging around in the way, and by coaxing the police to let him alone. A few stones were thrown, but no very serious efforts were made beyond this by the strikers at this time. Soon after this, Mr. Watt sent one of his men to the mayor's office for fifty more policemen, and in answer to this call some five or six men came out about one, P.M., in charge of Officer White. With these men, Mr. Watt went out to the stock-yards, at Torrens station, a distance of five and one tenth miles from the Union depot, to see if the stock trains at that place, which had been some time loaded, could be got off.

At this place there was a large crowd of persons, a large portion of whom were either present employés of the railroad company or were discharged men, and others were unknown to the railroad officials. One train of stock was coupled on by the yard engine, and run out by stratagem before the crowd were aware that it was an attempt to send the train east, and this was the last freight train that was forwarded, until after the troubles were over. About four, P.M., another attempt to move a stock train from Torrens was made, but the engineers all refused to undertake to couple on to the train, as they had all been threatened by the strikers, and were afraid of their lives, and at any move made by the engineer the crowd would interfere, so that the crew gave up their trains. Mr. Watt returned to Pittsburgh, and the stock was unloaded. Mr. Watt, on his return to Pittsburgh, went again to the mayor's office, about five, P.M., and asked for one hundred or one hundred and fifty police. The mayor was not in, having gone, as he testified, to Castle Shannon, to see his wife, who was sick. The mayor's clerk was at the office, and informed Mr. Watt that the men could not be furnished, that the day force of nine men in all were all busy, that the night force, which consisted of one hundred and twenty-two men, were not yet on duty, and could not be spared to be sent out to the scene of the disturbances, as they must be kept in the thicker portions of the city, and advised Mr. Watt to call on the sheriff of the county for assistance. On Friday morning, July 20, A. J. Cassatt sent David Stewart, of Pittsburgh, to invite the mayor to come to the Union depot, as he wished to consult him in regard to the situation, and had sent a carriage to convey him to the depot. The mayor replied that he would have nothing to do with it; the whole matter was taken out of his hands; they had no business to bring troops there. Mr. Stewart asked him if he would see Mr. Cassatt, if he would bring him down to the mayor's office. His answer was: "No, I will have nothing to do with it," and he turned and left. It will be noticed that this was some time before any troops were brought there, and a day and a half before the Philadelphia troops arrived. This ended the call, by the railroad officials, on the mayor for assistance to disperse the crowd interfering with their property, although, on that day, warrants were placed in the hands of the police for the arrest of some fifteen or twenty of the ringleaders of the strike, and after this time there does not appear to have been any very serious attempt made by the mayor or police to assist in quelling the riots. The whole extra force raised by the mayor, as testified to by J. J. Davis, clerk of the chief of police, for whom bills were sent in for pay, was twenty-nine men.

During the afternoon of the 19th of July, one or two attempts were made to start freight trains from Twenty-eighth street, but when the engine was started some of the crowd would step in front of it, swing their hands, and the engineer would leave his engine, and soon all efforts to start trains from this place were abandoned for that day.

Although the engineers and firemen and some of the conductors and brakemen professed to be willing to run at any time, yet, on the slightest demonstration being made by any of the strikers, they would abandon their engines and trains without making one decent effort to do their duty. The railroad officials claimed that they had plenty of men willing to run out the trains if they only had the opportunity, but when the opportunity was made for them the men did not care to take advantage of it. In the meantime the crowd was increasing at Twenty-eighth street, and Mr. Watt, after he left the mayor's office, went to the sheriff's office, and not finding him there drove to his residence, but he was not there. It was ascertained that he would be back in the course of the evening, and Mr. Watt returned to his own office.

The crowd had so increased at the Twenty-eighth street crossing that they had full possession of the railroad tracks there, and the yard engines could not be moved to transfer the cars in the yard from place to place, and orders were given to the engineers to put up their engines. Between eleven and twelve o'clock, P.M., Mr. Watt started for the sheriff's residence, and on his way called at the office of Honorable John Scott, solicitor for the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, to have that gentleman go with him. The sheriff was at home, and they called on him for protection for the property of the company, and advised him of all that had taken place up to that time. The sheriff went with them to the outer depot, near Twenty-sixth street, where they found General Pearson, who had come to Mr. Pitcairn's office to ascertain the condition of affairs, so as to report the same to Adjutant General Latta, who had telegraphed him from Philadelphia, making inquiry if he knew anything of the disturbances on the Pennsylvania railroad. Governor Hartranft was at that time out of the State, and somewhere in the West, on his way to California, and before going had given instructions to Adjutant General Latta, that in case of trouble requiring the presence of the military, he must, on the requisition of the proper civil authorities, assume the responsibility, and act as occasion demanded.

A little after midnight the sheriff, together with General Pearson, Mr. Watt, and some fifteen or twenty railroad employés, walked out to Twenty-eighth street, and there getting up on a gondola or flat car so as to be above the crowd, addressed them, advising them to disperse and go to their homes, stating to them his duty in case they refused. The crowd refused to disperse, and hooted and yelled at the sheriff, and fired pistol shots in the air while he was addressing them. They told the sheriff to go home, that they were not going to allow any freight trains to leave until the difficulty between them and the railroad company was settled, that the mayor and policemen were on their side, and that prominent citizens had offered to assist them in provisions and money to carry on the strike. It should be here stated that there is no proof that any such offers of assistance were actually made, except that tradesmen with whom the strikers were dealing offered to trust them until they got work again, and one prominent citizen, whose name was used by the mob, came forward testified that he had never made any such offer. Some of the mob also read messages purporting to come from other places, urging them to hold their ground, and assistance in men and means would be sent them. There is no means of ascertaining whether these messages were really sent as they purported to be, or were only bogus ones, used for the purpose of firing up the mob, and inducing them to hold out in their purpose. They were probably bogus, and they, without doubt, produced the effect intended by their authors. At this time the crowd numbered some two hundred men and boys, and was composed of some railroad men, some discharged men, quite a number of mill men, (that is men from the iron mills, glass factories, &c.,) and some strangers as they were called by the witnesses, repulsive, hard looking men, probably tramps and criminals, who always flock to a scene of disturbance like vultures to the carrion. The sheriff, as he testifies, becoming satisfied that he could not raise force sufficient to control the crowd, made a call on the Governor, by telegraph, for military to suppress the riot. The sheriff at this time had made no effort whatever to raise a posse to disperse the mob, and in view of subsequent developments it is probable that such an effort would have been futile. The copy of the telegram of the sheriff to the Governor is given in the report of the Adjutant General for 1877, as are also copies of all other telegrams sent and received by him during the troubles, and most of them in the evidence taken by your committee, and therefore they need not be copied here.

In view of the absence of the Governor, the telegram was also sent to the Secretary of the Commonwealth, and the Adjutant General, the one to the latter reaching him at Lancaster on his way to Harrisburg. General Latta immediately telegraphed General Pearson, who held the rank of major general, and commanded the Sixth division, National Guard, with headquarters at Pittsburgh, to assume charge of the military situation, place one regiment on duty, and if he found one regiment not sufficiently strong, to order out the balance of the division and to report generally. General Pearson immediately ordered out the Eighteenth regiment, Colonel P. N. Guthrie, and this order was soon followed by one ordering out the Fourteenth regiment, Colonel Gray, the Nineteenth regiment, Colonel Howard, and Hutchinson's battery in command of Captain Breck. These orders were responded to very slowly, as it was in the night time, and the men were scattered about the city, and some companies were made up of men at some little towns outside of the city. Colonel Guthrie resides at East Liberty, and received his orders about half past four, A.M., on the 20th. He at once notified his officers, and they notified the men, but as it was too early to be able to get messengers the colonel had to go personally to the officers and it was about twelve o'clock, noon, when the regiment reported at the Union depot hotel two hundred and fifty strong. This regiment was ordered out to Torrens Station to protect property and clear the track at the stock yards, and on its arrival there, at half past one, found a crowd of from twelve hundred to fifteen hundred persons assembled. The regiment had no difficulty in getting into proper position, and Colonel Guthrie then lay in position waiting further orders. It was understood between General Pearson and Colonel Guthrie that the Fourteenth and Nineteenth regiments and the battery should clear the track at Twenty-eighth street, and protect the men on the trains in getting them started, and that Colonel Guthrie should clear the track at Torrens and protect the trains in passing that place. The Fourteenth and Nineteenth regiments assembled very slowly, and it was not until about five P.M., that General Brown, commanding the brigade, got together three or four companies, and these not half full, and marched out to Twenty-eighth street. Before taking a position there, he received orders from General Pearson to return to the Union depot, as he had not force sufficient to accomplish anything, and accordingly he returned with his command.

In the meantime, General Pearson, fearing that the majority of the men in these regiments sympathized with the strikers, telegraphed Adjutant General Latta to that effect, and suggested that troops from Philadelphia should be sent on, and gave it as his opinion that two thousand troops would be needed to disperse the mob, as it was now (six thirty-five, P.M.,) very large (four thousand to five thousand men) and increasing hourly. General Latta at once telegraphed Major General Brinton, commanding the First division of the National Guard, at Philadelphia, to get his command ready to move to Pittsburgh. General Brinton received this order in the evening, and at two o'clock on the morning of the 21st he had six hundred men at the railroad depot ready to start. At Harrisburg, General Brinton received some ammunition and two Gatling guns, and reached Pittsburgh at one, P.M., and reported to General Latta at the Union depot hotel, and there distributed twenty rounds of ammunition to his men. In order to understand the situation of things and the future movements of the troops, a description of the depots, buildings, tracks, and surroundings of the Pennsylvania railroad property at Pittsburgh is here necessary. The Union depot was situated between Seventh and Eighth streets, and from this place the line of the railroad ran eastwardly, at the foot of a steep bluff, from one hundred and fifty to two hundred feet high on the right, and with Liberty street on the left. There were a great number of tracks running side by side out to and some distance beyond Twenty-eighth street, with numerous switches in order that the tracks might be used conveniently, and many of these tracks were filled with cars, passenger and baggage cars near the depot, and freight cars further out. The outer depot, lower round house, machine shops, &c., were situated at and near Twenty-sixth street, about a mile from the Union depot, some other shops were scattered along there to Twenty-eighth street, near which street was what was called the upper round-house. From Twenty-eighth street down to the Union depot the tracks were several feet higher than Liberty street, and a strong wall was built up at the side of Liberty street to support the embankment and keep it from caving into the street. At Twenty-eighth street there was a crossing much used, the bluff not being as steep or as high here as it is further down, and the hill is ascended by a diagonal road or path from the crossing.

About two o'clock, A.M., of the 21st, the Nineteenth regiment and Breck's battery were sent out to Twenty-eighth street, the battery to take a position at the foot of the bluff, near the crossing, and the regiment a position on the side hill, a little above and commanding the crossing. About four, A.M., of the same day, the Fourteenth regiment was sent out, and ordered to take a position higher up the hill, and above the Nineteenth regiment, and the orders given by General Pearson were to hold this position, and keep the Twenty-eighth street crossing and the tracks in the vicinity clear of the crowd. This Twenty-eighth street crossing was the gathering point of the mob, and but very little effort seems to have been made during the day (the 21st) to carry out General Pearson's order. A few times in the forenoon one or two companies were ordered down, across the tracks at the crossing, and back again, and for the time would clear away the crowd in their immediate path, but as no effort was made to hold the crossing, nor to clear the tracks on each side of it, the effort amounted to nothing, and when the soldiers went back to their position on the hill the crowd would again resume possession of the ground cleared. The soldiers also fraternized with the mob. Most of the time their arms were stacked, and they were mingled indiscriminately with the crowd, lying about on the ground talking with them, and when, about four, P.M., the Philadelphia troops were marched out to Twenty-eighth street, a dense crowd filled the Twenty-eighth street crossing and vicinity, and was so mixed up with soldiers that no lines of regiments or companies could be observed, and it was with difficulty that soldiers could be discovered at all. On the morning of the 20th warrants had been issued for the arrest of some fifteen or twenty of the ringleaders of the strikers, and were placed in the hands of police officer McGovern and his men to be executed. His orders were not to attempt to execute the warrants in the crowd, as they were excited, and a collision might be provoked, and if arrests were made at all they must be made quietly. If the opportunity for quiet arrests occurred, it was not taken advantage of, for no arrests were made, and no attempts seem to have been made to spot the men, or ascertain their whereabouts, or to do anything towards executing the warrants while they were in the hands of the officers. On the morning of the 21st, bench warrants for the arrest of the same persons were issued by Judge Ewing, and these were placed in the hands of Constable Richardson, who called on the sheriff for a posse to assist in making the arrests. The sheriff sent out ten of his deputies to raise a posse for the purpose, and the deputies claim they were vigilant and thorough in their efforts to find men willing to serve, but were unable to raise any considerable number of persons. All sorts of excuses were made, and not over ten persons in all responded. No peremptory summons or call, such as it was his right and duty to make, was ever issued by the sheriff, and, as testified by him, when he reached the Union depot with his deputies and posse, a short time before the Philadelphia troops arrived, all but six of his posse had left.

On Saturday it is the custom for the different mills and shops at Pittsburgh and vicinity to shut down about noon, or soon after; and on that eventful Saturday, July 21st, those in the neighborhood of the Twenty-eighth street crossing saw the crowd at that point suddenly and largely increased soon after the hour for shutting down the mills. A prominent manufacturer of Pittsburgh was at the Union depot on Saturday, about the time of the arrival of the Philadelphia troops, and had a talk with Mr. A. J. Cassatt, third vice president of the Pennsylvania railroad, and, in this conversation, told him that Saturday was an idle day with their workmen in Pittsburgh, and that it would be great wisdom in him to wait until Monday, when the laboring men would be at their work, before attempting to open their road; that it was natural that their home troops should sympathize with the strikers, and they could not be fully depended on in case of a riot. Mr. Cassatt refused to give any directions to delay the movements of the military, saying they had already lost a great deal of time, and it was the duty of the government to put them in possession of their property at once. General Brinton, with his command, arrived at Pittsburgh at three, P.M., and, after being furnished with coffee and sandwiches at the Union depot, were formed and marched out along the tracks to the Twenty-eighth street crossing. Before starting from the depot, General Brinton gave orders that the mob must not be fired upon, even if they spat in the soldiers' faces, but if they were attacked, however, they must defend themselves.

The plan adopted for the afternoon's operations was for a portion of the Philadelphia troops to take possession of the premises of the railroad company at and in the vicinity of Twenty-fifth and Twenty-sixth streets, where the freight trains that had been prepared to send out stood, and clear this portion of the tracks from the crowd, so that when the tracks and switches at Twenty-eighth street were cleared and put in possession of the company, the trains could at once be moved, as the engineers and men were said to be ready to start with the trains. The balance of the Philadelphia troops were to move up to Twenty-eighth street and coöperate with the Pittsburg troops in clearing the tracks at that point, and when this was done the trains were to be started, and after a few trains had been run out it was believed that the strike would be broken up; that the strikers would see the futility of trying to resist the law when backed up by the military, and would give up the contest.

The sheriff and his deputies (he had no posse to speak of) started from the Union depot towards Twenty-eighth street, to execute the warrants in the hands of Constable Richardson, a little in advance of the Philadelphia troops, but were delayed on the way out, somewhat, by looking after men, and before arriving at Twenty-eighth street, were overtaken by the troops, but no arrests were made by them. The second division, in command of Brigadier General E. De. C. Loud, was left on Twenty-fifth and Twenty-sixth streets, with orders to disperse the crowd at that point and protect the employés in starting the trains. The order was promptly executed by throwing out skirmish lines and clearing the tracks in the vicinity of the trains. The first division brigade, under the command of General E. W. Mathews, and the battery of Gatling guns, all under command of General Brinton, marched out to near the Twenty-eighth street crossing. The command marched out by column far into the crowd as far as possible, and then General Brinton gave the command to wheel into line by the right flank, which brought one line lengthwise of the tracks, below the Twenty-eighth street crossing, facing Liberty street, and another line was formed parallel with the first, on the opposite side of the tracks facing the hill. The crowd was ordered to disperse by the sheriff, and he was answered by hoots, jeers, and rough language. The move made by the troops had cleared the tracks between the two lines, and the crowd now began forcing itself down from Twenty-eighth street, between the lines formed each side of the tracks. General Brinton ordered two companies to form across the tracks at right angles with the two lines already formed, and between them, facing Twenty-eighth street, and to march up and press the crowd back and clear the crossing. The sheriff and his deputies had been in front up to this time, but they now took a position in rear of the two companies. General Pearson had been with the command until this time, when, seeing the size of the crowd, and its determination, he went back to Mr. Pitcairn's office to telegraph General Latta, for the purpose of having more troops ordered to the place. The two companies, in carrying out their orders, marched up against the crowd, with their pieces "arms port," and endeavored to press them back in this way, but no impression could be made on them. General Mathews, at this juncture, seeing, as he said, that the mob was firm and determined, and would not bear temporizing with, gave his men orders to load.

The two companies were then ordered to charge bayonets; many of their guns were seized and some of the bayonets nearly twisted off, but no impression was made on the crowd. While these movements were being made, the mob was becoming more and more noisy, defiant, and boisterous, and were throwing stones and other missiles at the troops, several of the latter having been hit, and one or two seriously injured. Several pistol shots were also fired by the crowd, and immediately after the pistol shots the troops commenced firing on the mob. The firing was scattering, commencing at a point near where the pistol firing took place, and running along the line in a desultory manner, until it became almost a volley for a moment. The officers ordered the firing to cease, and stopped it very soon. There is a conflict in the evidence as to whether or not an order was given the troops to fire, but the great weight of the testimony is that no such order was given. The most of those who testify that such an order was given, say it was given by General Pearson, but General Pearson was not present when the firing took place, but was at the superintendent's office. Every person, however, from General Pearson down, who have given an opinion on the subject, say that an order to fire was justified and should have been given, and the officers in command say that the order would have been given very soon. The firing had the effect to disperse the crowd at once, they scattering in all directions, and leaving the troops in full possession of the Twenty-eighth street crossing and the tracks in the vicinity. Several persons were killed and wounded, and as is usually the case, a number of innocent people suffered. The coroner held inquests on the bodies of twenty-two persons in all, the most of whom were killed by the soldiers at this time at Twenty-eighth street, but a few were killed the following night and Sunday morning at or near Twenty-sixth street. The number cannot be ascertained with any certainty, but several were seriously injured. It is believed, by those best situated to know the facts, that a number of the mob were secretly disposed of or taken care of by their friends, and whose names have never been given. If men had been ready and willing to man the trains, they could have been sent out after the dispersal of the crowd, but the occurrence at Twenty-eighth street seems to have thrown everybody into confusion, and, as usual, the engineers and train men were glad to find some excuse for not going. No attempt seems to have been made to move the trains, which were supposed to be ready at Twenty-sixth street, and the cars remained there until they and their contents were burned. The troops remained on the ground from the time of the firing about five, P M., until about dusk, when they were ordered, by General Pearson, to move into the lower round-house and machine-shop, near Twenty-sixth street, and remain for the night, as all attempts to move trains had been abandoned, and the troops needed rest and food.

The crowd had come together again gradually, in the vicinity of the Twenty-eighth street crossing, but whenever the troops made any move towards them, they would scatter, and when the troops marched into the lower round house and machine shop, the mob took possession of, and had full sway again at the crossing. General Pearson had ordered the Fourteenth and Nineteenth regiments to go down and take possession of the transfer depot as it was called, about two hundred yards below the lower round house, and these regiments marched down there about the time that General Brinton's command went into the round house and machine shop. Colonel Gray, at request of Colonel Howard, assumed command at the transfer depot, and held possession until about ten P.M., when General Brown came and told Colonel Gray that the place was untenable, and could not be held; that he had information which made it necessary for them to get out, and ordered the command to go to the Union depot. Colonel Gray had been disgusted at the order to leave the side hill above the Twenty-eighth street crossing, thinking it a great mistake, and was also disgusted at the order to move down to the Union depot. Colonel Gray, received orders from General Brown to disband his command, and at once called around him his officers, and protested against it. Said it was a disgrace to do so, with the mob in force in the vicinity, and a disgrace to desert the Philadelphia troops, but the order was obeyed, and the men dispersed to their homes, carrying their guns with them; about eleven P.M., General Brown testified, that leading citizens and military men advised him that it was best to disband these troops, that their being kept under arms aggravated and exasperated the mob, and that this advice coincided with his opinion, and therefore the order was given. About two hundred men were present at the time they were disbanded, nearly as many more having left from time to time, during the day and evening, and it is General Brown's opinion, that they were absent on account of their sympathy with the strikers, and not on account of fear. When these troops marched down to the transfer depot, the mob did not jeer or rail at them, as they did at all times at the Philadelphia troops, and it does not seem from the evidence, that anything had been done by them to aggravate or exasperate the mob in the least. General Pearson entered the round house with General Brinton's command, and left them about half past eight, to see about getting provisions for the men, who had received no regular meal since leaving Philadelphia. They had been furnished with coffee and sandwiches at Altoona, and the same at Pittsburgh.

On leaving, General Pearson gave General Brinton orders to hold the position until he returned, which he thought would be within an hour. On reaching Union depot General Pearson was informed that the mob was very much exasperated against him, as they held him responsible for the firing on them by the troops, and was advised by General Latta and others that his presence would still further aggravate the crowd, and that he had better retire to some place of safety until the excitement was over, which advice was followed, and he therefore did not return to General Brinton. The effort to provision General Brinton's troops was a failure, as the mob seized, used, and destroyed the food which was sent out for the purpose. The round house and machine shop overlooked Liberty street on one side, on the other side were the tracks, many of them filled with cars, and near the machine shop were piles of lumber and materials used in repairs. Pickets were put out on this side of the machine shop so as to prevent the mob from taking shelter behind the piles of lumber, and firing on the troops from these places. The mob had broken into two or three gun stores in the city between eight and nine o'clock that evening, and had, by this means, secured guns and ammunition, and soon after dark commenced firing on the round house and machine shops, firing in at the windows and at any soldiers they could get sight of, one of the mob firing an explosive bullet, which the troops could see explode every time it struck anything in their vicinity.

Two of the soldiers were wounded, one in the arm and one in the leg, during the night, which is all the casualties that occurred among them until after they left the round house and shop in the morning. About ten o'clock P.M., the mob began setting fire to the cars, and running them down the track nearest the round house, in order, if possible, to set it on fire, and thus drive out the troops. From some distance above Twenty-eighth street to below Twenty-sixth street it is down grade, and the cars will run of their own gravitation, on being started, down to and below the buildings in which the troops were located. The first car fired was a car of coal, and, after being set on fire, it was started on the down grade with one of the mob on it, and he, on arriving at the round house, broke up the car and stopped it. Other cars were fired and run down against the first one, and there was soon a string of fire the whole length of the shops on the side next the tracks. The round house was well supplied with water, and the troops were enabled to keep the fire from communicating with the buildings during the night.

About one o'clock, on the morning of the 22d, (Sunday,) it was discovered that the mob had a field piece on Liberty street, ready to fire on the round house. By General Brinton's orders his men were stationed at the windows ready to fire, and the mob were notified to abandon the gun and not attempt to fire it, or they would be fired on. They paid no attention to the warning, and when one of them was seen with the lanyard in his hand ready to discharge the piece, orders were given the troops to fire, and several of the mob fell, and the rest ran away. Several attempts were made by the mob during the night to creep up and discharge the gun, but the soldiers kept close watch on it and allowed them no opportunity to do so. General Brinton succeeded in communicating with General Latta during the night by sending out one of his men, Sergeant Joseph F. Wilson, who, by disguising himself, succeeded in getting out and back twice, but would not undertake it again. He brought orders from General Latta to hold on as long as possible, that Guthrie had been ordered to report to him, and ought to reach him at five or six o'clock, but if compelled to escape at last, to do so to the eastward, to take Penn avenue if possible, and make for Colonel Guthrie, at Torrens. The scout, Wilson, brought in the last dispatch about two o'clock, A.M., the 22d, and this was the last communication that reached General Brinton while in the round house. The ordeal through which these men passed that night was fearful. Tired, hungry, worn out, surrounded by a mob of infuriated men, yelling like demons, fire on nearly all sides of them, suffocated and blinded by smoke, with no chance to rest, and but little knowledge of what efforts were being made for their relief, with orders not to fire on the mob unless in necessary self defense, the wonder is that they were not totally demoralized; but the evidence of all the officers is that the men behaved like veterans, obeyed all orders cheerfully and with promptness, and during the whole night but one company manifested any spirit of insubordination, and these proposed to lay down their arms and quit, as they were not allowed to use them on the mob, while the latter were taking every opportunity of shooting down the soldiers. This insubordination was quickly brought to an end as soon as the attention of the proper officer was called to it, and when the troops marched out in the morning, no one could tell by their actions which of the men had wavered during the night. About half-past seven, Sunday morning, the 22d instant, the machine shop caught fire in many places, the roof of the round house also was on fire, and it became necessary to evacuate the buildings. The two Napoleon guns could not be removed, and were spiked, and about eight, A.M., the command marched out into the street in good, order, taking their Gatling guns with them. The mob scattered in every direction at sight of the troops coming out, and no attempt was made to molest the soldiers until they began their march eastward by Penn avenue, in pursuance of the orders received from General Latta.

After marching two or three squares, the troops were harassed by a fire in their rear. They were fired at from second story windows, from the corners of the streets, and from every place where one of the mob could fire from under cover so as to be safe himself from a return fire. They were also fired at from a police station, where eight or ten policemen stood in uniform, as they passed, and when they were a convenient distance from the station, shots were fired at them from the crowd there assembled. It is hard to believe charges of this kind, but the evidence is too positive and circumstantial to leave room for doubt. At one point, just before reaching the United States arsenal, there was some confusion among the men in the rear of the column, caused by an attack by the mob that was following up, and a halt was made, and the Gatling guns used on the attacking party, which dispersed them, and this ended all attacks on the troops. In this retreat, three of the soldiers were killed and several wounded, one of whom, Lieutenant Ashe, died a few days afterwards, at the United States arsenal. On arriving at the arsenal several of the soldiers climbed over the fence, into the grounds, and General Brinton called on the commandant, Major Buffington, for leave to feed and shelter his troops there. General Brinton and Major Buffington disagreed as to what occurred between them at that time, which question of veracity the purposes of this report does not require us to decide, but General Brinton is corroborated by the testimony of one of his officers, and Major Buffington has no corroborating witness. The result of the conference was, that General Brinton and his well men went on, and his wounded were left, and well cared for, at the arsenal. General Brinton, hearing nothing from Colonel Guthrie, continued his march out to and through Sharpsburg, and finally brought up in the vicinity of the work-house, and encamped on the grounds near that institution, where he was furnished with rations for his men, and gave them a chance to get the rest they so much needed. These rations reached General Brinton's command during Sunday afternoon, through the personal exertions of A. J. Cassatt, who, from the time of the occupation of the round-house by the troops, had been unwearied in his endeavors to get provisions to them. The command was also furnished with blankets and other necessary camp equipments, by Colonel Thomas A. Scott, who had also been vigilant in looking after the welfare of the men, and all necessary transportation needed on their behalf, after their departure from Philadelphia, unprepared for a campaign, on account of the brief notice given them. To these two gentlemen, the friends of the National Guard owe a debt of gratitude for the personal interest taken by them, at all times, during the campaign, to render any service that lay in their power to make the men comfortable.

The destruction of the railroad property by the mob had been continued all night, the cars and goods contained in them that could not be carried off being burned as fast as they could be broken open, the goods thrown out and the cars set on fire. Crowds of men, women, and children were engaged in the work of pillage, and everything portable, of any value, was seized as fast as thrown from the cars, and carried away and secreted. One feature of the mob at Pittsburgh is new in this country. A large number of women were in the crowd at Twenty-eighth street, on Saturday, the 21st instant, and according to testimony, they talked to the sheriff, and others who tried to get the crowd to disperse, worse than the men, used viler epithets, and more indecent language, and did everything in their power to influence and excite the mob to resistance. They also, during Saturday night and Sunday, brought out tea and coffee for the men engaged in the destruction of property, and were the most active in carrying away the goods taken from the cars. This work of pillage and destruction continued all day Sunday, and the actual destruction was participated in by only thirty to fifty men, the citizens in the meantime standing looking helplessly on, and no effort made to stay the damage by the bystanders. There was a very large crowd in the vicinity of the burning, who were supposed to be in sympathy with the destruction, and this probably deterred anyone from interfering to put a stop to it. The police, on Sunday, arrested some seventy-five persons who were carrying off goods, the arrests being made some distance from the place where the articles were taken. Those arrested were taken before Deputy Mayor Butler, and most of them were by him discharged. This seems to be all that the police did to restrain the rioting that day, and it is in evidence that one policeman in uniform got into one of the cars and threw goods out to the mob.

On Saturday morning, General Latta had sent written orders by Captain Aull to General Brinton, for the latter to make a junction with Colonel Guthrie, at Torrens, and with the whole force to march to Pittsburgh, and fearing that Captain Aull might fail to reach General Brinton, the order was read to Colonel Norris, who volunteered to go in search of General Brinton.

Colonel Norris, in company with J. M. Stewart, overtook General Brinton's command a little beyond Sharpsburg, and they both testify that Colonel Norris told General Brinton that Captain Aull had been sent by General Latta in search of him with orders, and communicated to him, (General Brinton,) the substance of the orders, and that General Brinton refused to go back, saying that his men had been fired at from houses, street crossings, and police stations, and were almost famished for want of food, and he was going into the open country where he could intrench and defend himself, and procure food for his men, but that if he received positive orders he might return.

General Brinton and several of his officers testify that although Colonel Norris visited him at the time and place stated, yet that he delivered no orders whatever, and stated that his errand was to find out where the command was. In regard to these counter-statements your committee will have something to say under the head of "conduct of the militia." It is proper to state here, however, that the written order given to Captain Aull to take to General Brinton was not delivered to him till the 1st day of August, a week from its date.

Soon after the first car was set on fire, Saturday night, the alarm of fire was given, and the firemen with their engines at once turned out and arrived in the vicinity of the fire about eleven o'clock, but were not allowed to attempt to stop the destruction of the railroad company property. They tried several times to lay their hose, so as to play on the fire, but the mob cut their hose and threatened them with death if they persisted. Some of the police testify that they cleared away the mob at one place and notified the firemen that they were ready to protect them if they would go to work and put out the fire; but the firemen deny this, and testify that no such offer was made, and that at no time did they see half a dozen police together.

In view of the general failure of the police to do what must be considered their duty in regard to the rioters, during the whole time of the trouble, they need not think it strange if the majority of people are inclined to believe the statements of the firemen. The officers of the fire department testify that the firemen were well organized at the place of danger, ready to do their duty at all times, and that this department was the only one in the city that was organized trying to do its duty during the time of the riot. The firemen, after some remonstrance on the part of a portion of the rioters, were allowed to save private property, and to this fact may be ascribed the safety of a good portion of the city; for the fire from the railroad property communicated to the adjoining property of individuals, and but for the labors of the firemen there must have been a very extensive conflagration throughout Pittsburgh. The destruction of property did not cease until about five o'clock, P.M., on Sunday, the 22d, and then only when the limit of the corporation property had been reached at Seventh street by the destruction of the Union depot, Union depot hotel, and the grain elevator. The latter did not belong to the railroad company, but it was believed by the mob to be owned by a corporation, and therefore it was doomed to destruction with the rest. Several times during the day—Sunday—the cry of "police" was made by some one in the crowd, and whenever this was done the mob would scatter in all directions, but as soon as it was ascertained to be a false alarm they would again return to the work of destruction. It was demonstrated also that whenever any citizen gave a determined and positive order to any of the mob it was usually obeyed.

A notice had been published in the Sunday morning papers, and had also been given out in the various churches, that a meeting of the citizens would be held at the old city hall, at noon, for the purpose of organizing to protect the city. Some citizens met at the old city hall, according to notice, but there seemed to be no head to the movement, and it adjourned to meet at the new city hall immediately. At this place a committee of safety was appointed, and a sort of an organization for defense commenced, but in the language of a prominent witness engaged in the movement: "They were all day doing very little; there was no head anywhere; the mayor did nothing, and seemed to be powerless, and the sheriff had run away. The mayor seemed to be confused; he ran around some, but really did nothing." A nucleus for an organization of the responsible citizens of the city was formed, however, which on the following day developed into vigorous action, and the best men of the city came forward and subscribed liberally to a fund to pay an extra police force, and pledged themselves to subscribe any amount necessary to put the city in a complete state of defense against the mob element. Some sixty thousand dollars was actually subscribed, of which about fifteen thousand dollars was used to pay the extra police force called into existence by the action of the citizens during the emergency.

About four to five o'clock, P.M., a body of fifty or sixty men, composed of professional and business men, were organized under the lead of Doctor Donnelly, and armed at first with ax-helves, and afterwards with some old muskets and no ammunition, and with white handkerchiefs on their left arms, appeared at the scene of the trouble, near the Union depot and elevator, but it was too late to save these buildings, as they were already burned. The crowd gave way to this force, but as the destruction was completed here but little could be accomplished. The doctor ordered the mob to take hold and tear down a fence so as to stop the spread of the fire, and they obeyed orders.

There was such an apathy among the citizens, that it took all the day to raise this force led by Doctor Donnelly, and after being on the ground a short time, and finding nothing for them to do, they disbanded.

During the day (Sunday) a car load of whisky or high wines was broken open by the mob, and they drank very freely of it, and towards night, at the time the Union depot and elevator were burned, most of the active rioters were so drunk as to be unable to continue the work of destruction, if they had been so disposed. Whisky had done good service in this case, if never before. The fatigue consequent upon the labors of Saturday night and Sunday was also producing its effect upon the rioters, and taken in connection with the fact, that most of them must have been filled to satiety with rioting and destruction of property, shows a good cause for the waning of the riot on Sunday afternoon. A few of the rioters, between five and six o'clock, P.M., went to the Duquesne depot, (the property of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company,) at the junction of the Allegheny and Monongahela rivers, with the intention of burning it and the cars in the vicinity. One car was set on fire and an attempt made to set the depot on fire, but some six or eight of the citizens' safety committee arrived there about the time the rioters did, and they interfered at once to put a stop to destruction, and had no difficulty in doing so, as the rioters desisted and left as soon as they saw any authority exerted in opposition to their schemes.

The Eighteenth regiment (Colonel Guthrie) had remained at Torrens station, keeping the track clear at that point, and waiting for the expected trains. The crowd at that place numbered about fifteen hundred men, composed of mill men, some railroad men, boys, roughs, and tramps. The passenger trains were allowed to run by the mob, but between Pittsburgh and Torrens they were filled to overflowing by the roughest of the crowd, who traveled backwards and forwards between those places on the trains at their pleasure, and no one dared to interfere with them. They even climbed on the engine and tender, and roofs of the cars, and controlled the movements of the trains whenever they chose so to do between those two points. At Torrens, the crowd would occasionally become demonstrative and defiant, and Colonel Guthrie was obliged to charge bayonets on them several times, and each time had no difficulty in dispersing them. Twice he ordered his men to load in presence of the crowd, and this of itself dispersed them. Colonel Guthrie's troops were not allowed to fraternize with the mob, but were kept entirely aloof from them, and this regiment does not seem to have become demoralized, as the Fourteenth and Nineteenth regiments were. About four o'clock, P.M., Sunday, Colonel Guthrie, hearing that the Fourteenth and Nineteenth regiments had been disbanded, and being unable to ascertain the exact condition of affairs at Pittsburgh, went there and consulted with General Latta, and his regiment was ordered to march to that place, where they arrived about dark, and, of course, too late to be of any service in stopping the destruction of property, which had all taken place before their arrival. They marched to the armory and stayed all night, and on Monday forenoon, the Twenty-third, together with the Fourteenth and Nineteenth regiments, which had been ordered to reassemble that morning, marched through the principal streets of the city for the purpose of overawing any riotous disposition that might still remain in those who had been engaged in the work of destruction the day before. Colonel Guthrie assumed command of the division, his commission being older than Colonel Gray's or Colonel Howard's, and when General Brown wished to assume command Colonel Guthrie refused to recognize his authority, on account of the manner in which he had managed matters on Saturday, the 21st. On Saturday night, a few of the leading citizens had suggested to the mayor that it would be well to call out all of the old police force that had been discharged, and in accordance with this suggestion the chief of police caused a notice to be published, calling on them to report at his office and they would be assigned to duty. During the day several reported and were employed, and afterwards most of the old force were taken back and assigned to duty for a time. This extra force, together with the force of citizens organized for the purpose, patrolled the city that Sunday night, and succeeding nights, until the danger had passed.

From the first commencement of the strike, the strikers had the active sympathy of a large portion of the people of Pittsburgh. The citizens had a bitter feeling against the Pennsylvania Railroad Company on account of, as they believed, an unjust discrimination by the railroad company against them in freight rates, which made it very difficult for their manufacturers to compete successfully with manufacturers further west, and this feeling had existed and been intensified for years, and pervaded all classes. A large portion of the people also believed that the railroad company was not dealing fairly by its men in making the last reduction in wages, and the tradesmen with whom the trainmen dealt also had a direct sympathy with the men in this reduction, for its results would affect their pockets.

The large class of laborers in the different mills, manufactories, mines, and other industries in Pittsburgh and vicinity, were also strongly in sympathy with the railroad strikers, considering the cause of the railroad men their cause, as their wages had also been reduced for the same causes as were those of the railroad men, and they were not only willing but anxious to make a common fight against the corporations. This feeling of aversion to the railroad company and sympathy with the strikers was indulged in by the Pittsburgh troops to the same extent that it was by the other classes, and as many of them had friends and relatives in the mob, it is not much to be wondered at that they did not show much anxiety to assist in dispersing the crowd and enforcing the law.

With the repulse of the attempt to set fire to the Duquesne depot ended all active efforts by the mob to destroy property, and after that Sunday night no mob of any size was again assembled, although it was several days before complete order was fully restored, as the people had lost confidence in all the laboring men, and no one knew who to trust or what to expect from others on account of the extent to which the demoralization had gone.

About sixteen hundred cars, (mostly freight,) including passenger and baggage cars, with such of their contents as were not carried away by the thieves; one hundred and twenty-six locomotives, and all the shops' materials and buildings, except one or two small ones, of the railroad company, from above Twenty-eighth street to the Union depot, were burned on that Saturday night and Sunday.

It has been estimated, by a competent person, that the damage, including loss of property and loss of business, consequent upon the interruption of business, which was inflicted by the mob, at Pittsburgh alone, was $5,000,000. This may be a large estimate, but if the consequential damages could be correctly arrived at, the total damage would fall but little short of the figures given. The actual loss of property by the railroad company alone, not including the freight they were transporting, is estimated at two million dollars, by the officers of the company, from actual figures made. The authorities of Allegheny county adopted thorough measures to ascertain the extent of the loss of property, and to that end appointed a committee to investigate claims of those claiming damage. One hundred and sixty-nine claims were settled by the committee, that is, the amount of each claim of this number was adjusted and agreed upon by the committee and the parties, and the total amount thus adjusted is about one hundred and sixty thousand dollars, and all this is strictly private property. Some persons refused to adjust the amount of their claims with the committee, among which is the claim of the elevator company, amounting to the sum of two hundred thousand dollars. Property that was stolen was also recovered and returned to the railroad company, amounting in value to at least sixty thousand dollars.

The tracks from Union depot out to and beyond Twenty-eighth street were nearly all ruined by the fire, the rails being warped and twisted and the ties burned; they were also covered with the debris of the burned cars, and it was about a week after the destruction, or until July 30th, before the railroad company were enabled to get their trains all running regularly again over this portion of the track.

During the troubles of the 20th and 21st, efforts were made by the strikers to come to an understanding or compromise with the railroad officials, and a committee to confer with the officials was appointed.

Some time on Friday, the 20th, the committee met Mr. Pitcairn, the superintendent of the Pittsburgh division, and presented him with a written statement of the demand made by the strikers, of which the following is a copy, viz:

"Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers,
Pittsburgh Division, No. 50,
Pittsburgh, Pa., July 20, 1877.

To the Superintendent Western Division, Pennsylvania Railroad:

First. We, the undersigned committee appointed by the employés of the western division of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, do hereby demand from the said company, through the proper officers of said company, the wages as per department of engineers, firemen, conductors, brakemen, and flagmen as received prior to June 1, 1877.

Second. That each and every employé that has been dismissed for taking part or parts in said strikes to be restored to their respective positions.

Third. That the classification of each of said department be abolished now and forever hereafter.

Fourth. That engineers and conductors receive the wages as received by said engineers and conductors of the highest class prior to June 1, 1877.

Fifth. That the running of double trains be abolished, excepting coal trains.

Sixth. That each and every engine, whether road or shifting, shall have its own fireman.

Respectfully submitted to you for immediate consideration.

J. S. McCauley,
D. H. Newhard,
John Shana,
G. Harris,
J. P. Kessler,
Committee."

Mr. Pitcairn informed the committee, that these terms could not be accepted by the railroad company, and that he could not send such a proposition to Colonel Scott, the president of the company, and the negotiations were broken off. An attempt was made on Sunday, by some of the citizens, to induce the railroad officials to submit some proposition for a compromise to the strikers, but the officials refused, saying that the men had taken the law into their own hands, and that no proposition could be made to them until their property was restored, and all opposition had ceased, and that it was now a matter of law, and the State authorities must settle the question with the men first.

The propositions embraced in the papers submitted by the committee of engineers, proposed that the railroad company should make concessions that had never been asked before. The first and second explain themselves fully, and had been grounds of complaint before. The third, requiring the abolishment of the classification of conductors and engineers, had never been a ground of complaint by the men. The conductors were divided into three classes: The first of which received a certain rate of pay per month the first year of service; an addition of ten per cent. for the second year, and another addition of the ten per cent. for the third year. The engineers were divided into four classes, and received an advance of ten per cent. for each year of service after the first until the fourth class was reached. This classification was adopted at the request of the men themselves, some years previous, and no complaint in regard to it had ever reached the officers of the company.

This principle of classification had been practiced by other railroads, and has worked well, and is a good rule for both the men and the railroads, as its tendency is to secure and retain better men to run the trains.

The fourth proposition, if accepted, would have placed the new, inexperienced men on the same footing as the men of experience, and to give them at once the highest wages paid the older and more experienced men.

The fifth proposition was for the railroad company to back down and rescind the order made to run double-headers and the sixth that the company should employ a fireman on all shifting engines, a place where they are not usually needed, as the engine is not engaged in steady work, and the engineer can do his own firing without trouble or over-work. No proposition of compromise was submitted to the strikers on the part of the railroad company, and what would have been the result if one had been made, it is useless to speculate about.

As tending to show the feeling of the people of Pittsburgh on the subject of the difficulties between the Pennsylvania Railroad Company and its employés and in regard to the strike, some copies of editorials from several of the newspapers of the city, written and published at the time of the strike, have been inserted in the evidence accompanying their report.

More space has been given to the history of the riots at Pittsburgh than to any other place, as it was here the troubles first commenced in this State; here was the greatest loss of life, and it was here that, by far, the greatest destruction of property took place. We turn now to Allegheny City, just across the river from Pittsburgh, and the termini of the Pittsburgh, Fort Wayne and Chicago railroad, the Allegheny Valley railroad, the Pan Handle railroad, and the Connellsville division of the Baltimore and Ohio railroad. On Friday morning, July 20th, the freight conductors and brakemen on the Pittsburgh, Fort Wayne and Chicago railroad refused to go out with their trains, and the railroad officers, fearing trouble, sent up to the mayor's office for some policemen to preserve the peace, and ten were sent them. The mayor was not at his office at the time, but, on his return, he immediately went up to the depot to look after the troubles himself. At the time the mayor arrived on the ground there was a crowd of two hundred and fifty to three hundred and fifty men assembled and no man could be found to man the trains. One engineer came out with his engine, which was surrounded by the crowd, but no violence was used and there is no evidence of any threats being made at the time, but he returned with his engine to the round house. After this time no attempt to run a freight train was made on this road until the troubles were all over and the men had given up the strike.

The strikers here were under the leadership of one R. A. Ammon, better known as Boss Ammon, and declared their intention to use no violence to prevent trains from running; that if the railroad company could get "scabs" (as the strikers called any man who was willing to work during a strike) to run their trains, they were willing the trains should run, but as the company was unable to find men willing to go out on the trains, the good intentions of the strikers were not tested. As this road was run directly in connection with the Pennsylvania railroad on the general western through traffic, it was but little object to force the freight trains out as long as the Pennsylvania railroad was blockaded, and, hence, no effort was made, after the first day, to run freight trains. The main efforts were in the direction of keeping the peace and preventing the destruction of property. The strikers declared their intentions to keep the peace, and prevent the destruction of property, and not interfere with the running of passenger trains, and they were told that so long as they did this in good faith, they would not be interfered with. Mayor Phillips immediately ordered out all his police to patrol the city, organized an extra force of citizens, and swore them in, made a requisition on the Secretary of War for five hundred guns, and got them, and placed them in the hands of the citizens, and generally had everything so well organized and arranged that any attempt at a riot could have been met and quelled at once. It was rumored that the mob had broken, or was going to break, into the armory and get the guns (about forty) stored there, and the mayor at once sent and had the guns all removed to a place of safety. It was also rumored that the mob from Pittsburgh intended to come over into Allegheny City, and destroy the railroad property there, and the mayor had the bridges all guarded by armed men, with two field pieces at the principal ones, which he was enabled to get, and there being no balls with them, he caused them to be loaded with square iron burs, an inch or so in size.

The city had fifty-five policemen, and these were kept on duty as much of the time as it was possible for men to be out, and no opportunity was given any of the Pittsburgh mob to cross over to Allegheny.

At the time it was alleged that the Pittsburgh mob was coming to Allegheny City, to destroy the property of the railroad company there, an arrangement was made with Ammon and his men to take the freight cars out of the city, which was accordingly done, and ten miles of cars were hauled out from the city some miles, and stowed away on the side tracks, until the troubles were over, when the same men brought them back and turned them over, in good order, to the railroad authorities. It was also arranged with Ammon and his men, that as long as the men behaved themselves and protected the property of the company, no soldier should be brought there to interfere with them, and if, at any time, they found themselves unable to preserve the peace and take care of the property, they were to notify the mayor, who would then furnish a force to preserve order. The mayor also, at the commencement of the troubles, sent his policemen around to notify the saloon-keepers, and others, to close their bars, and sell no strong drink to any one, and afterwards sent the force around to see that the order was obeyed. Although not legally binding, the order was very generally observed, and no trouble was experienced on account of the crowd using strong drink. The mayor had notices posted throughout the city that, if necessity required it, ten taps of the bell was to be the signal for the general assembling of the citizens at a given place for defense, which signal, fortunately, was not required to be given.

Mayor Phillips considered himself as the chief peace officer of the city, and if the sheriff or military had been called on for assistance, he did not consider either or both superseded him, but that it would have been his duty to have cooperated with them to the full extent of his power.

"Boss" Ammon and his party, which consisted of about one hundred railroad men and a crowd of two or three hundred outsiders, roughs, and laborers, continued to run the Pittsburgh division of the Pittsburgh, Fort Wayne and Chicago road until Tuesday evening, the 24th instant, at which time Governor Hartranft arrived from the West. When Ammon heard that the Governor was on the train, coming to Pittsburgh, he telegraphed him, welcoming him to the State, and assuring him a safe passage. On the Governor's arrival he was met by Ammon and introduced to the crowd, and gave them a short talk, counseling obedience to the laws, which was well received. It was now felt by all that the strike must come to an end immediately; that there was a man at the head of affairs who knew his duty and would not be trifled with, and that all parties would be fairly and justly treated. Boss Ammon immediately made arrangements to turn over the railroad to the proper authorities, he seeing very clearly that the proper time to do so had now come, and that further delay was dangerous. Some of his men could not agree with him that it was best to make terms while they could, and, at a meeting of the men, he was hissed, and they refused to hear him speak.

Thus fell from his position of boss the man who, with only eleven months' experience as a brakeman, for four or five days successfully ran one division of a great railroad.

It has by some been considered an extraordinary performance for a young man of twenty-five, with the small experience he had, to control the men he did, and keep the passenger trains running regularly without accident on such a railroad; but when the circumstances are considered it is nothing wonderful. In the first place, a mob or crowd are always willing to follow any person who has nerve, and is willing to assume the responsibility and take the lead. Ammon had the nerve; was naturally shrewd and sharp, and knew how to control men, and they had been used to look up to him as the organizer of the Trainmen's Union. The mob always wants a dictator, and in Ammon they had one. In the next place, the great railroads of the country are so organized, and their trains are run by such a regular system in connection with the telegraph, that the trains can be run for days without a break if the superintendent should abandon the road entirely. Ammon was a king so long as he led in the direction the crowd wished to go; when he undertook to put on the brakes and get them to reason about their situation, and ran counter to their opinions, he was dethroned with as little ceremony or compunction as one school boy shows in knocking off the hat of another.

Human nature is the same everywhere; in politics, society, or with the mob, the leader must go in the direction his followers would have him go, or he is replaced for one more subservient. From Wednesday, the 25th of July, the officers of the Pittsburgh, Fort Wayne and Chicago railroad began to be able to get control of their road, and in a few days all the trains were running regularly. The other railroads running into Allegheny City had nearly the same difficulty with their men as did the Pittsburgh, Fort Wayne and Chicago railroad, and their trains for a few days were not regularly run, but they got along without any rioting or destruction of property, and were soon able to start all their trains again.

On Friday, July 20th, the freight conductors and brakemen on the Pennsylvania railroad, at Philadelphia, began to be uneasy, and on Saturday, the 21st, a strike was in full operation among them. They gathered in crowds at the yards of the company where the freight trains were made up to start out, and they, as in other places, were joined by a large crowd of idle men, tramps, and vagabonds, such as are found around a large city, and who scent out a chance for trouble or a riot, as a crow scents carrion. The officials called on Mayor Stokley for policemen to keep the peace, and protect the property of the company. The mayor at once acted vigorously; sent out his police with orders to disperse any crowd that might gather on the grounds of the railroad company, and, on advising with the citizens, he was authorized to call out an extra force, which he did at once. His action was so thorough and efficient, that no serious interruption of traffic was experienced at that place, although crowds of rough men had gathered to the number of two or three thousand, and at one time, as estimated, to the number of four thousand to five thousand. They were dispersed by the prompt and vigorous action of the police, who would charge into the crowd, using their clubs freely and scattered them at once. It was the policy of the mayor not to allow a mob to collect, and this prevented a serious rioting.

To Mayor Stokley and his police force, the State, as well as the city of Philadelphia, is greatly indebted, and to their efforts may be ascribed the salvation of that city from the disgraceful scenes enacted at Pittsburg.

On Saturday, July 21st, an uneasiness among the trainmen at Harrisburg and Scranton was observed, which, within the following two or three days, ripened into a strike. The first crowd which gathered in Harrisburg was on Saturday evening, the 21st of July, at the Pennsylvania railroad depot, to prevent the shipping of ammunition to Pittsburgh. The mayor was notified about ten o'clock, P.M., of what was going on, and he immediately sent for the chief of police, to make arrangements to meet the threatened danger. A lieutenant of police and another policeman being the only members of the force then available for prompt service, were sent to the scene of the trouble, and, by arrangement, arrested a man and started for the mayor's office with him, to draw the crowd from the depot. This ruse proved successful, and the ammunition was shipped before the crowd returned. Some three hundred or four hundred persons followed the policemen with their prisoner to the mayor's office, and, on their arrival there, the mayor went out and asked them to disperse, when about one half of the crowd left. The person arrested then appeared at the door, and informed the crowd that he had been arrested for drunkenness and disorderly conduct, and the balance of them dispersed.

On Sunday, the 22d, the trainmen, whose head-quarters were at Harrisburg, struck, and in consequence thereof a large crowd gathered on the common, and listened to harangues from some of their number, among whom was an insane man from the lunatic asylum. From the common, the mob went to the Pennsylvania railroad depot, and prevented a train from going out, and the mayor, having notice of their movements, appeared upon the scene and found some boys uncoupling an engine from the train, which the mayor put a stop to, and requested the engineer to move on, which he refused to do, giving as an excuse that he was told there were obstructions on the track a short distance out of town. The crowd at this time was composed of all kinds of citizens, good, bad, and indifferent, and they soon dispersed, and no violence took place. On Monday, the 23d, the mob gathered in large force about the railroad premises, and there being a larger number of roughs and tramps, became more turbulent and interfered with the running of the trains. The mayor consulted the leading men about raising a posse to assist the police, there being only seventeen in the service of the city, and it was determined to raise a force of citizens, to be called the "law and order posse," who were to assemble at the mayor's office, on a given signal from the court-house bell.

The sheriff of the county was at Atlantic City at the commencement of the trouble, and was telegraphed to when matters began to assume a serious aspect, and he arrived at Harrisburg on the evening of the 23d. At this time the mob had increased largely, and was becoming demonstrative. The sheriff was informed as to what measures had been taken so far, and the mayor requested him to take charge of the situation and control the movements generally, which the sheriff assented to, and at once prepared a proclamation, ordering all good citizens to turn out and assist in enforcing law and order, which proclamation was published in the papers the next morning. In the evening of the 23d a portion of the mob had gone to Aultmeyer's gun store, on Second street, and demanded admittance, and the proprietor had opened the doors to them. Word was sent to the mayor of the occurrence, and he took his police and repaired to the place immediately. He found the store full of men and boys, who had helped themselves to guns and knives. The mayor formed his police in front of the store and went in and talked with them, and after a little parleying they delivered up the weapons they had seized and left. About eleven o'clock, P.M., the mob gathered in large numbers on Market street, where it crosses the railroad, and working up Market street they broke into two or three stores. The signal for the assembling of the citizens was given, and they assembled immediately at the corner of Third and Market streets to the number of three hundred to four hundred, together with the sheriff, the mayor, and the police. The sheriff being a man of considerable military experience, had caused the citizens to adopt company and regimental organizations, by reason of which they were more quickly assembled and more easily handled and moved. The sheriff and mayor went down to the mob and ordered them to disperse, which they refused to do, and then the police and citizens, armed with pistols and clubs, were marched toward the mob, the police and mayor at the head of the column. The mob numbered from seven hundred to one thousand, and two thirds of them dispersed on seeing the force marching against them, but some two hundred stood their ground. The force in command of the mayor and sheriff marched into this body, using their clubs freely, and completely dispersed them without firing a shot. Several of the rioters were arrested at the time, and quite a number during the week; in all some forty-five or fifty of the leaders were arrested, many of them being taken in their beds that night.

This determination on the part of the civil authorities, backed by the citizens, broke the spirit of the mob, and they did not again assemble in any great number, or commit any further breaches of the peace, although the citizens' organization was kept up for several days, and a special force of some fifty men was employed to be on the watch for some time, and until matters became quiet throughout the State. The whole number of citizens enrolled was about fifteen hundred, and more than one thousand were out on a parade at one time. On receiving news of the uneasiness manifested at Harrisburg, General Latta, then at Pittsburgh, telegraphed Major General J. K. Sigfried, commanding Fourth division National Guard, with head-quarters at Pottsville, to put the City Grays, of Harrisburg, on duty at the arsenal at once, and order his whole division under arms, and move to Harrisburg. He also received a similar telegram from Governor Hartranft, from Medicine Bow, Wyoming Territory. The telegrams were dated July 22d. General Sigfried had, on the previous day, as a precautionary measure, ordered Captain Maloney, of the Harrisburg City Grays, to ship his arms and ammunition to the State arsenal, located just outside of the city, and to stay there and guard the same, to prevent it from falling into the hands of any mob that might undertake to capture it. General Sigfried arrived at Harrisburg with nine companies of the Seventh and Eighth regiments on the 23d, and was there joined by eight other companies, making a force under his command of some eight hundred men. These troops were stationed at the arsenal at the time the mob was dispersed by the police and sheriff's posse, on the night of the 23d, but were not called on by the civil authorities, they evidently understanding their duty, which was to attempt to enforce the law by the means within their power, before calling on the military for assistance. Had this been done as promptly in some other places, much expense to the State might have been saved, and the riot nipped in the bud, instead of being allowed to become strong and organized, while waiting for troops to arrive. The mayor testified that when the disturbance first commenced the citizens were lukewarm, and seemed to have considerable sympathy with the strikers, but as soon as affairs began to assume a serious aspect, they came forward and enrolled themselves freely in the law and order posse, and urged prompt and vigorous action, and by so doing they no doubt prevented the enacting at this place of the terrible destruction of life and property which took place in other localities.

At Reading, on Saturday, July 21st, the idle men began to gather in small bodies and talk of strikes, and showed a disposition to interfere with railroad property, but no overt act was committed until Sunday the 22d. The mob at this place was composed primarily of discharged employés of the Philadelphia and Reading Railroad Company, who had been discharged in the month of April preceding. The officers of that road learning that the society called the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers intended to make the company trouble, commenced preparing for it, and when in April the engineers demanded an advance in wages of twenty per centum, they were notified that any person who belonged to the brotherhood could not remain in the employ of the company unless he severed his connection with that society, and that, as the society was a beneficial one, and had a fund for its members to draw on in ease of sickness, the company would establish such a fund for its engineers. In consequence of this demand, and the circular of the company, some four hundred engineers, firemen, and brakemen left the service of the company, whose places were filled by promoting firemen and hiring new men, and those coming from other roads who held certificates of competency and good behavior. Many of these men who left the employ of the company had remained in and about Reading, and on hearing of the riots at Pittsburgh, thought it would be a good time to take their revenge on the Philadelphia and Reading Railroad Company, and these, with other idle men, composed the nucleus of the mob, and were, as in other places, soon joined by all the tramps and criminals in the vicinity. None of the regular employés of the railroad company struck at that time, nor were they engaged in the riots. On Sunday trains were interfered with near the depot, and one or two cars burned, and on Sunday night, the 22d, the Lebanon Valley railroad bridge, which is a very high one, crossing the Schuylkill at Reading, and costing a large sum of money, was burned. On the evening of July 22d, Adjutant General Latta telegraphed to Major General William J. Bolton, commanding the Second division National Guard, with head-quarters at Norristown, to concentrate the Sixteenth regiment, under arms, at once at Norristown, and the Fourth regiment, at Allentown, which was done as soon as possible, and the Fourth regiment, General Reeder, reported on the morning of the 23d, that all the companies were in hand except company A, which was in the hands of the mob at Reading.

At 3.50, P.M., of that day, J. E. Wootten, general manager of the Reading Railroad Company, telegraphed General Bolton, that they were in need of protection at Reading, and asked that General Reeder be sent to that place with his command, which request was complied with, and General Reeder ordered to proceed to Reading at once. General Reeder, with the Fourth regiment, Colonel Good, arrived at Reading about seven o'clock, P.M., of the 23d, and instead of finding the mob in possession of the depot of the Philadelphia and Reading railroad, as he expected, found it in possession of a squad of the coal and iron police. The mob had had pretty much its own way all day, and had stopped the running of all freight trains, and interfered with the passenger trains. The sheriff of the county, George R. Yorgey, who was out of the city, had been telegraphed to by the chief of police, in regard to the trouble, and having been furnished an extra train, arrived in the city about five, A.M., of the 23d.

On his arrival, he refused to take any steps to raise a posse, although men were offered him by the railroad officials, and the only step taken by him to disperse the rioters, and preserve order during the troubles, was to issue a proclamation at night, on the 23d, requesting all good citizens to remain at their homes. When the chief executive officer of the county, so fails in his duty, it is no wonder that mobs become defiant and destroy life and property.

The mayor was absent from the city, and the chief of police, Peter Cullen, was the only civil officer who did any thing to preserve order. He, with the police force of twenty-seven men, did all that men could do under the circumstances. On Sunday night, with a few police, he tried to prevent the burning of the cars, and stopped it after a short time. On Monday, with his force he cleared the crossing at Seventh and Penn streets, so that the street cars and people could pass, although the crowd numbered several thousands. He also sent out his men to raise a posse of two hundred men among the citizens, but they all refused, and laughed at the police, and he did not consider that he had the authority to summon them or order them out.

The police force was still at the Penn street crossing when General Reeder arrived at the depot. The railroad officials requested General Reeder to move into the railroad cut to release a train that was in the hands of the mob, and as that was on the direct route to Penn street crossing, the point to which he wished to go with his force, he commenced his march through the cut. The cut is some three squares long; the banks about thirty feet high at the highest place, and at the ends tapering down to nothing, with streets crossing it by bridges in two places, and walks at each side near the top of the bank, with a stone wall down the face of the bank, and a parapet three or four feet high to protect the walks.

On nearing the cut, General Reeder's force was met by a large crowd hooting and jeering at the soldiers, and throwing stones, and the General, seeing the temper of the mob, ordered his musicians to the rear and his men to lead. The mob gave away, but as the troops entered the cut the mob, which lined both sides of the cut, began to throw brickbats, paving stones, and other missiles down on them, which the soldiers bore until they were two thirds of the way through the cut, when one or two pistol shots were fired at them, and one soldier fired his piece in the air, which was followed by scattering shots, and then by a regular volley, and firing was kept up until they reached the Penn street crossing, where the police were stationed. Of the two hundred and fifty-three soldiers only about fifty escaped being hurt, but none were seriously injured. Of the crowd eleven were killed, and over fifty wounded, two of the killed and some of the wounded being mere lookers on, and not engaged in the riots.

It being so dark that no one could be readily distinguished, seven of the policemen who were in line across the railroad at the Penn street crossing were wounded by the fire of the troops, some of them quite seriously, but they all recovered. This collision broke the spirit of the mob, and no destruction took place after that at this place. But the mob was threatening for several days, so much so that five companies of the Sixteenth regiment were immediately sent to General Reeder, from Norristown. This did not improve the condition of affairs, as the men of the Sixteenth regiment openly fraternized with the rioters, and declared their intention, in case of further trouble, of siding with them, and furnished them with ammunition. This soon destroyed the morale of the Fourth regiment, and General Reeder asked leave to move them to Allentown, which was granted, and General Bolton started for Reading on a special train, after giving orders for the movement and disposition of the balance of the men of his division. On arriving at Reading he found matters rather quiet at the depot, with the Sixteenth regiment in possession. The authorities fearing trouble that night, and the police having been out that day again trying to raise extra men for the force, and failing, General Bolton telegraphed to General Reeder, who was at Temple station, six miles distant, to return at once with the Fourth regiment; to which General Reeder answered that "the men positively refused to return to Reading to-night; the regiment and company officers are perfectly helpless;" and from Colonel Good: "The men of the Fourth positively refuse to return to-night; I can't get twenty-five men," and General Bolton finally ordered General Reeder to rendezvous at Allentown and await further orders. It is enough to say that three hundred United States troops arrived that day at Reading, and no further serious trouble was apprehended or occurred; that General Bolton ordered the Sixteenth regiment to return to Norristown; but company I mutinied and refused to return, and was disbanded in dishonor by the general. He afterwards issued an order to disband companies C, D, E, and H, of the Sixteenth regiment, subject to the approval of the Governor, for general insubordination and mutinous conduct while under orders.

At Scranton, the railroad men began to feel the effects of the strikes in other places, and on Monday, the 23d of July, rumors were circulated that a strike was to be inaugurated on the roads running through that place. Mayor R. H. McKune was at Ocean Grove, and seeing the accounts of the troubles at Pittsburgh in the newspapers, hurried home, where he arrived on the evening of the 23d. On the 24th, he tried to get the city council together to prepare for the emergency, as the strike, according to rumor, was to take place the next day, the 25th; but the council were opposed to doing anything in that direction, and refused to take any action. On Wednesday, the 25th, a committee of trainmen waited on the superintendent of the Delaware, Lackawanna and Western railroad, and informed him that no trains would be allowed to leave, except the engine with a mail car. The superintendent asked the mayor for a force to protect the trains, but the regular police force of the city had been reduced to ten men, which was entirely insufficient, and the superintendent was advised to run the mail cars for the present, and not undertake to move regular trains until more assistance could be got, which advice was finally followed.

On the 26th of July, the miners of the Lackawanna Iron and Coal Company held a meeting at the Round woods, at which from six thousand to eight thousand persons were present, and a committee was appointed to confer with the general manager in regard to wages, and the crowds began to gather in the streets. The mayor called an advisory committee of seven of the leading citizens, on Thursday morning, the 26th, and it was agreed to raise and swear in a special police force of the citizens, to act during the emergency, which arrangement was carried out, and quite a number of them raised that day, and placed under the command of officers who had seen service in the army. A room was procured at the company store, as it was called, for this special force to meet and organize in, and meetings were held and necessary arrangements made to meet any emergency.

The miners had resolved to quit work and not allow the mines to be pumped, and there was great danger that they would be flooded and immense damage inflicted. On Sunday, the 29th, the authorities met a committee of the miners and represented to them that the damage of flooding the mines would—a great portion of it—fall on them, as the mines could not then be worked for a long time if once flooded, and it was finally concluded that the pumps might be worked, so that on Monday the pumps were generally going again. On Monday the city council met, and resolved that no necessity existed for special police, and that none would be paid by the city. The mayor on that day sent for the executive committee of the trainmen, and informed them that on Tuesday, the 31st, it was proposed to start the regular trains at nine, A.M., and if resisted the mayor would use all the force at his command to put the trains through. In the afternoon the trainmen had a meeting and resolved, by a large majority, to resume work, and by evening of that day all fears of any further trouble had passed. The special force of citizens which had been sworn in were armed partly with Remington rifles and partly with muskets, and it was arranged that they should assemble at headquarters on a given signal through the church bells. Wednesday morning, August 1st, a meeting of the laboring men of the vicinity was held at the silk-works, a mile or so below the city, at which some seven thousand or eight thousand men were present. Accounts conflict as to the purpose of this meeting, some contending that it was called to hear a report of some committee, and some that no object was specified in the call, which was by word of mouth from man to man. No committee made any report, but a letter was read by some demagogue, purporting to be written by W. W. Scranton, general manager of the Lackawanna Iron and Coal Company, saying that he meant to have the men at work for fifty cents a day, and when they died bury them in a culm pile. Mr. Scranton denies having written any such letter, but it answered the purpose of its author by inflaming the minds of those at the meeting, and they broke up with the cry, "let us clean out the company's shops." About half-past ten, A.M., the mayor was informed that a crowd of men was coming up from the silk-works. The mayor, with a friend, started out to see what was the trouble, and on his way notified some of the special police to meet at head-quarters.

On arriving at the corner of Lackawanna and Washington avenues, they saw a crowd of from three to four thousand coming up the latter street, and swarming about the machine and other shops, and about the railroad. The mayor went down into the crowd, which opened for him, and he went as far as the machine shop, and turned and came back to the roadway of the Delaware, Lackawanna and Western shops. He had said to them: "Boys, you are doing wrong; you must disperse and go home." On arriving at the roadway, a company of one hundred and fifty or two hundred, who had been driving the men from the shops, and beating and maltreating them, came along, and the leader asked who that was. On being told it was the mayor, he said, "kill the son of a bitch; he has no business here," and immediately two shots were fired, and the mayor was struck between the shoulders by a club, or some heavy weapon, so hard as to cause hemorrhage of the lungs; a stone struck him in the small of the back, and several persons struck him with sticks. Several friends gathered about the mayor, and Father Dunn, a Catholic priest, came along to assist him. He was slipped out under the railroad bridge and toward Lackawanna avenue, followed by the crowd. The mayor had, before entering the crowd, given orders to have the signal given for the assembling of the extra police force, which order had not been executed, but word had been passed to a number of men, and when he got back to the avenue, he saw a body of them coming down towards him. At this point the mayor was hit by some heavy instrument, which broke his jaw and knocked him senseless for a time, but he went a short distance down the street and back again to where the mob and extra force of citizens were just about to meet. The mob, on leaving the machine shops, had cried out, "now let's clean out Lackawanna avenue," (the principal street of the city.) "Let's clean out the town." The force of citizens—about fifty in number—were passing Washington avenue just as the mob came up it and struck Lackawanna avenue, and they closed in behind the citizens and on both sides of the street around them; then a large number of stones and other missiles were thrown at the special police, with cries of "kill them; take their guns from them," and similar threats, and shortly two or three pistol shots were fired by the mob, and then the order was given the citizens to fire, which was immediately done, and three of the ringleaders killed the first fire. This dispersed the mob, which fled in every direction. The citizens gathered again at the company store to the number of two hundred, and a policeman soon reported the crowd gathering again.

The mayor, at the head of twenty-five of his men, immediately went to the crowd and ordered them to disperse, which order they obeyed. This force of citizens kept up their vigilance, not allowing any crowd to gather until the troops arrived on August 2d, and took charge of the military affairs at that place. A great deal of ill feeling and dissatisfaction still existed among the miners and mill men, but no open outbreak occurred, and before the troops left that section quiet and order was fully restored. Too much praise cannot be awarded the mayor and citizens' special police force of Scranton for the admirable organization they created, and for the prompt and vigorous measures taken when the emergency arrived. Had the action of the city council been approved and its advice taken, no special police force would have been raised, or had there been timidity among them when called out, Scranton would, no doubt, have suffered as badly as did Pittsburgh; for nowhere in the State was there a harder set of men than at Scranton and vicinity, many of the Molly Maguires, driven out of Schuylkill county, having gathered in and about that city, besides the scores of other hard cases who had been there for years. Riotous demonstrations were made at several other points in the State, but none of them assumed any great magnitude, except at Altoona and a few places in the anthracite coal region, and the occurrences at these places being described in the movements of the military as reported in the report of the Adjutant General for the year 1877, and being so similar to those that took place at the points particularly described herein, except as to magnitude, it is not deemed necessary to further notice them in this report.

Your committee has not thought it necessary to give a detailed account of the general movements of troops, except so far as they relate to the troubles at some particular point, where the same was necessary to a correct idea of all the circumstances occurring at such point, these general movements being all detailed fully in the Adjutant General's report above referred to.

As it is made the duty of your committee to report "by what authority the troops of the State were called out, for what purpose, and the service and conduct of the same," we approach this part of our labors with considerable diffidence, on account of the peculiar situation of affairs at many of the points to which troops were sent; the fact that this kind of service was new to most of them, and that, unaccustomed as our people are to the use of the military to enforce the laws, the opportunities for forming a correct judgment are few, and the chances for being mistaken are many. It is perhaps easy, after a thing has happened, to criticise the actions of those engaged in the transaction, to point out where they failed, and to say where they ought to have done different, but if the theories of the critic had been tested by actual experience, he too might have produced no better results than did those he criticises. Bearing this in mind, and endeavoring to treat the whole subject fairly and conscientiously, we proceed to give our views upon this part of the matter under consideration. And first, the troops of the State were called out, in the first instance, by orders from James W. Latta, Adjutant General of the State, on a call from the sheriff of Allegheny county, the orders being signed by him, the Adjutant General, the Governor's name not being attached thereto, the Governor, as before stated, being absent from the State. He, with his family, started for California on the 16th of July, and before leaving had a conference with the Attorney General, Adjutant General, and Secretary of the Commonwealth, as to whether there was any reason why he should not go. It was agreed by all, that everything in the State was quiet at the time, and no prospects of any disturbance, and that there was no reason whatever, why he should not take the contemplated trip. Before leaving, however, he instructed Adjutant General Latta that if there was any trouble in his absence he should exercise the authority vested in the Commander-in-Chief, in accordance with the same rule and principles previously established, which were that on a call from the sheriff of a county for troops to assist in enforcing the law, the military should only be sent after he became satisfied that the sheriff had exhausted his powers and authority to suppress the disorder, and that the lawless element was too strong to be controlled by the civil authorities.

General Latta, after directing General Pearson, at Pittsburgh, to order out one regiment, and to take command of the military situation, reported what had occurred, and his order to General Pearson, to the Governor, which dispatch reached the latter at Antelope, on the Union Pacific railroad, July 20, before noon, which was answered by the Governor from Cheyenne, at half past one, P.M., the same day, directing General Latta to "order promptly all troops necessary to support the sheriff in protecting moving trains on the Baltimore and Ohio railroad, and go to Pittsburgh and keep supervision of all troops ordered out." From this time communication by telegraph was kept up by the Governor until his return, and all troops were ordered out in pursuance to general orders given by him. The Governor received a telegram from C. N. Farr, his private secretary, and General Latta, at 2.20, P.M., the 20th instant, that everything was going on well, and the riot would be suppressed, and for him to go on. He accordingly pursued his journey to Salt Lake City, where he received a telegram Saturday evening, the 21st, at nine o'clock, giving an account of the collision between the troops and the mob at Pittsburgh, when he immediately procured a special train, and started on his return. These facts show that the troops were called out by the proper authority of the State, on a requisition of the civil authorities of the locality where the troops were to be sent.

We believe that neither the mayor of Pittsburgh, nor the sheriff of Allegheny county, had exhausted their powers under the law to disperse the mob before calling for troops, and that under the rules adopted by the commander-in-chief the steps prerequisite to ordering out the troops had not been properly taken by the civil authorities. The purpose for which the troops were called out was to assist the civil authorities in enforcing the law, and preserving the public peace, and it was at no time supposed by any one of the military officers that they superseded the civil power, although at some places they were obliged to act in the absence of the civil officers, the latter having run away, or refused to do anything to suppress the riotous disturbances.

The service and conduct of the troops was generally good, considering the circumstances under which they went into service, except in a few instances, which will be more particularly specified hereafter. It should be remembered that never before were the militia of the State placed in so trying a position as that in which they were placed in July last. Rarely, if ever, were regular soldiers placed in more trying circumstances. Called upon without a moment's warning, they left their homes, with but little or no preparation, and hastened to the scene of the troubles. Nothing had occurred to give the people of the State or the railroad officials any indications of an outbreak at that time, but all at once the storm burst upon the city of Pittsburgh, and threatened its destruction. In this emergency the National Guard was called out, and most of the commands arrived at the scene of the troubles with great promptness, and there met a foe more formidable than they had any expectation of meeting. The active National Guard of the Commonwealth, being made up of volunteers from the people of the locality in which the military organization exists, is usually composed of all classes of the citizens of the locality, and the members of the military will, therefore, naturally be impressed with all the feelings of the community in which they reside, and be infected with any spirit of resistance to constituted authority that may exist among any great class of their neighbors.

Hence it is that this guard cannot be always relied upon to do its full duty in case of troubles at home, requiring the intervention of the military.

Not being brought up to the profession of soldiers, and the officers being their friends and neighbors, and when at home being no better and having no more authority than themselves, they are sometimes loth to obey orders when these orders run contrary to their wishes and inclinations. The military discipline, which comes from actual service, is wanting, and being accustomed to do their own thinking, having an opinion on all matters that come before them, and freely expressing it, it is very hard to come down to the condition of executing orders without a why or wherefore, even in ordinary cases; but when it comes to using their weapons against their friends, neighbors, and perhaps relatives, it is not to be wondered at if they sometimes waver in their duty. Every member of the active National Guard ought, however, to be taught that as a soldier it is his duty to obey the orders of his superior officers without question; that in case of a mob or riot in his neighborhood, strong enough to defy the civil authority, the organization of which he is a member is the first to be called upon, and that this aid to the civil powers is one of the principal duties which devolve upon him, and one of the principal reasons for maintaining such an organization. Taking into account the difficulty of overcoming these natural feelings of men, a large majority of the troops called out in July last may be said to have behaved nobly. General Pearson has been severely censured for having (as was alleged) given the command to the troops at Twenty-eighth street to fire on the mob, and the troops have also been denounced for the firing which occurred at that point.

Your committee have found, from the evidence, that General Pearson did not give the orders to fire, but we are of the opinion that he would have been justified in so doing, and that if he had been present at the time, he would not have been justified in withholding such an order for a moment later than the firing actually occurred. Neither can any blame be attached to the troops themselves. They had been pelted with clubs, stones, and other missiles by the mob, and this was continually growing more severe, when some persons in the mob fired pistols into the ranks of the men, and others were trying to wrench their guns from their hands, and it had become a question of submission to the mob on their part, or to fire in self-defense before a gun was discharged by them.

As it is usually the case in such occurrences, some innocent persons were killed and others injured, but for this the soldiers were not to blame. Being where they ought not to be, their presence whether so intended or not encouraged the mob, and the soldiers could not in such a crowd distinguish friend from foe. Spectators ought to keep away from such mobs at all times and not let their curiosity get the better of their judgment and discretion. It has been questioned whether it was a wise movement to order General Brinton's command into the round-house and shops on the evening of the 21st. The move itself we do not care to criticise, but having been made, we think a stronger picket guard should have been thrown out, all approaches more thoroughly guarded, communication kept up with the Union depot, where the supplies of ammunition and food were stored, and whenever the mob began to assemble in the neighborhood a sufficient force should have been ordered out to disperse them, which could have been done with the means at General Brinton's command.

The great mistake was made by General Pearson in ordering General Brinton not to allow his men to fire on the mob when they began to re-assemble, and showed their murderous disposition by firing on the troops, and the other measures taken by them in the early evening. General Brinton asked for leave to fire on the mob when they began to assemble around the round house and fire on his men, but General Pearson would not allow it. It was of no use to march out for the purpose of dispersing such a mob unless the men were allowed to fire, if necessary, as blood had been shed, the mob had become enraged by this and emboldened by the position and apparent inactivity of the troops, and nothing but the most severe measures would now be sufficient to overawe and disperse them. General Pearson was evidently intimidated by the denunciation which he received, at the hands of the press and people of Pittsburgh, as the supposed author of the order to fire on the mob at Twenty-eighth street. In his evidence he states that if he had given the command to fire at Twenty-eighth street, and it had not been followed by the frightful destruction of property which ensued, he would have been tried, convicted, and hung for murder, such was the sentiment of the people of Pittsburgh at that time. We think he should have taken vigorous measures against the mob after the occurrences at Twenty-eighth street, and not have allowed it to assemble again in that vicinity, and that he ought not to have left the round house at the time he did. For what occurred after that time he is blameless, for on reaching the Union Depot Hotel he was practically relieved from his command by General Latta. We think this was a mistake also; that it was giving way to the sentiment still prevailing in Pittsburgh that the attempt to disperse the mob at Twenty-eighth street was wrong, and the killing of the persons at that place nothing less than murder. The military had commenced a move to accomplish a certain purpose under the lead of the sheriff, and as his posse; a collision had occurred, the sheriff had left, the mayor refused to cooperate with the sheriff or military, and it was the duty of the military officers to carry out the movement, (to wit: dispersing the mob,) in a vigorous manner, and not in any way be swayed from their duty by the sentiment above spoken of.

We think the order given by General Latta, sent by Sergeant Wilson to General Brinton in the round house, which closed as follows, viz: "If compelled to escape at last, do so to the eastward; take Penn avenue if possible, and make for Guthrie, at Torrens," was a mistake. Some question has arisen as to the right of General Latta to give orders to General Brinton at all. We think that it is enough to say that General Latta was directed by the commander-in-chief to "go to Pittsburgh and keep supervision of all troops ordered out;" that he went there in pursuance of these directions, issued orders as if he understood himself to be at the head of military affairs after General Pearson left, was so recognized by all, and his orders obeyed as if coming from the commander-in-chief, and that, therefore, he cannot escape the responsibility of any orders issued by him, or the failure to take such steps as a military commander should have taken under the circumstances. If General Brinton was to leave the round house he should have been ordered to the Union depot, where he could have fed his men, and received a supply of ammunition, and from there he could have taken the most available position to disperse the mob and protect property. Of General Brinton's ability to have made this movement, if so ordered at any time, there can be no doubt.

Life would probably have been sacrificed in making such a move, but law and order must be upheld, even at the sacrifice of the lives of such persons as composed that lawless mob, or those who innocently mingled with it. The loss of life on the part of the troops could not have been greater than it was by pursuing the course afterwards taken, and it probably would have been much less, as mobs are always cowardly, and every demonstration made against this mob after the collision at Twenty-eighth street by any persons having authority, either civil or military, scattered it. Colonel Guthrie, with the Eighteenth regiment, should have been ordered from Torrens to Pittsburgh Saturday night, and the only excuse we can conceive for not doing this promptly, without waiting for the troops from Walls Station, is the fear that being Pittsburgh men they would refuse to obey any orders which would bring them in collision with the mob. This is not sufficient excuse. The proper order should have been given, as this regiment had not shown any insubordination, was not allowed to mix or talk with the mob, and would no doubt have obeyed all orders.

The conduct of the Fourteenth and Nineteenth regiments has been severely criticised by some, but many considerations are to be taken into account in coming to a just conclusion in regard to these men. The mob was made up in part of their neighbors and their fellow-laborers, and it was hard for them to take up arms to assist the sheriff in enforcing the law as against men having so much of their sympathy. This accounts for their dilatory movements in assembling when first called out, and the failure to report of many of their men. Their officers were to blame for allowing them to mingle with the mob, or rather for allowing the mob to mingle with them, and for the lack of strict discipline on Saturday, the 21st of July. Neither the officers nor men were to blame for their mismanagement on the night of the 21st, General Brown being alone responsible for that order.

This conduct of General Brown was unaccountable, until it was ascertained that he had been for some time previous suffering from severe physical ailments which had seriously affected his mind, and that he was not responsible for a failure in judgment at the time. It is no wonder the order called forth the indignant protest of Colonel Gray, but coming as it did from a superior officer, it was reluctantly obeyed. These regiments were afterwards sent to the coal fields, and there acquitted themselves like true soldiers.

As to the dispute between Colonel Norris and General Brinton, it is important only in treating of the conduct of General Brinton. The Adjutant General, in his evidence before your committee, stated that his duty was to assemble the troops, and that the command devolved upon the senior major general, (in the absence of the commander-in-chief,) who was General A. L. Pearson. He further stated that when General Pearson came to the Union depot hotel, before relieving him of his command, he was particular to ask him if he had left General Brinton in command, and that General Pearson replied that he had left him in full command. If General Brinton was in command, he had a right to act on his own judgment. But while General Latta's statement is correct when applied to him as Adjutant General, yet it must be remembered that he had assumed to act for the commander-in-chief, and gave orders to General Brinton during the night, and assumed the direction of the troops. It is evident that General Brinton considered himself bound to obey the orders of the Adjutant General, and we take it for granted that he was. The important question then is, did General Brinton disobey the orders of General Latta? It is clearly proven and conceded by all parties that General Brinton did not receive the written order given to Captain Aull to convey to him until the 1st day of August, a week or more after it was dated. Colonel Norris says in his testimony that he did not deliver it as an order to General Brinton; that he did not consider he had a right to do so, but that he told him that Captain Aull was on the way to him with an order from General Latta, and communicated to him the substance of the order. He further said General Brinton said he might return if he got positive orders to do so. This remark shows that General Brinton did not receive it as an order.

And further, Captain Aull not reaching General Brinton during the day, in the evening he sent Major Baugh, a member of his staff, to the Adjutant General's head-quarters, at the Monongahela House, for orders. The Adjutant General gave Major Baugh a written order, which he delivered to General Brinton, who obeyed it promptly. If Colonel Norris had reported it to General Brinton as an order coming from General Latta, and General Brinton had received it as such, he would not have sent to head-quarters for orders, as he did. As your committee understand the evidence, all that Colonel Norris claims is, that he told General Brinton that Captain Aull had an order for him, and communicated the substance of it to him, and that General Brinton understood it. True, that in this he is disputed by General Brinton, but it is not necessary for your committee to settle this question of veracity between them. The only question for us to settle is, did General Brinton disobey the order? We do not think that he did. Colonel Norris does not say he gave him the order. He simply told him Captain Aull had an order, giving him the substance of it. General Brinton, it seems, did not consider it his duty to act until the order reached him. Captain Aull not reaching him, he did what was very proper, sent to head-quarters for orders.

General Brinton has been censured for going so far out from the city, and not staying in its immediate vicinity. No one in his position could be expected to do differently. Ordered into the round house, not allowed to fire on the mob which was gathering around with the avowed purpose of killing his men, hooted at by the same mob which cheered the Pittsburgh troops, the Pittsburgh troops disbanded at a time when the mob had surrounded and besieged the shops in which his command was stationed, fired at from the windows of the houses, street corners, and even from a police station, not an official (except the sheriff) or citizen of the place to come near him at any time, or express a word of sympathy or encouragement in the disagreeable and delicate duty he was bound to perform, and after all, rebuffed at the United States arsenal, where he expected aid and sympathy, he had good reason to believe he was not wanted in the city, and needs no excuse for putting a reasonable distance between his command and that place.

The Sixteenth regiment seems to have been the most unreliable of all the regiments called on for service during the time of the troubles. Company I was disbanded in dishonor, for insubordination, cowardice, and mutinous conduct in disobeying orders and furnishing ammunition to rioters at Reading, by Major General Bolton, and he afterwards disbanded companies C, D, E, and H for mutinous conduct, subject to the approval of the Governor. The bad conduct of these companies commenced before they left home, in refusing at first to go aboard the cars, and continued until they got back again. The Fourth regiment, after having a serious collision with the mob at Reading, and behaving like men through that trouble, became badly demoralized by the action of the above named companies of the Sixteenth regiment, and, for a day or two, was entirely unreliable, but afterwards recovered its morale and did good service. A squad of some fifteen or twenty men, of General Brinton's division, (company and regiment not known,) which failed to report in time to leave with him for Pittsburgh, afterwards came on and were stopped near Altoona, and being unable to go further came back to a short distance above Harrisburg, and then left the cars to pass that place on foot by a circuitous route, as it was reported that the mob was in possession of the railroad, and would allow no soldiers to pass through. This squad stopped at some place across the river from Harrisburg. Some two hundred to two hundred and fifty men and boys, on the 23d of July, went across the river and came back escorting this squad of soldiers, a lot of boys carrying their guns, and they were taken to some place near the railroad, fed and afterwards put on the cars for Philadelphia. Such an isolated instance as this ought not to condemn the command to which it belongs, but it is discreditable to those engaged in it, and, it is learned, a court-martial has been ordered to sit on their case.

The National Guard of the Commonwealth is a necessity, and in a State like ours, with large numbers of illiterate and unprincipled men concentrated in certain localities, many of whom are foreigners, and imbued with the spirit of foreign communism, which is spreading in this country, the Guard must occasionally be called on as a posse to assist in enforcing the law; but it never should be called on until all other means are tried and exhausted. It has become too common to call on the Governor for troops, in ease of a mob, and the experience of the summer of 1877, demonstrates that in any community where the civil authorities and the citizens wish the law enforced, and act together harmoniously and vigorously, order may be maintained and mobs dispersed without the intervention of the military. At Philadelphia, large and angry mobs were dispersed by the police, which, if allowed to have been together for a day or two, would have become so strong, as to defy the ordinary authorities, and the result would have been riot and destruction. It was the same at Harrisburg, and also at Scranton, except at the latter place the city council refused to cooperate with the mayor and citizens, but notwithstanding this disadvantage, the wisdom of the measures of the mayor was vindicated at the first collision with the mob. It is but just to the people of Pittsburgh to say that the above places had the example of the latter place before them, and had learned the danger of temporizing or in any way sympathizing with anything like a mob, however just they may believe their original demands to be.

In conclusion your committee adopt the following clause of the Governor's message, which fully coincides with their views, viz:

"I have been thus solicitous to present the conditions of a militia campaign, because the conduct of our troops during the late crisis has elicited every variety of criticism, from mild censure to absolute condemnation, and because there has grown up in Pennsylvania a spirit of caviling at its militia, in marked contrast with the kindly feeling and pride manifested by other States towards their citizen soldiery. Now, that a temperate review of the facts may be made, I believe it will not be considered a partial judgment to say that during the conduct of the State troops during the late strike was, upon the whole, commendable and creditable. In Pittsburgh before a final decision, many considerations must modify our judgment. The conditions were not purely military. It was not simply a question of preserving a body of soldiery intact, of holding a position or defeating an enemy. Expecting to march into a friendly community, whose moral support would be cheerfully given them, they entered a practically hostile city, were denounced and threatened by press and people, and attacked by men who lurked in the security of a sympathetic crowd, and used women and children as shields and instruments. If, under such circumstances, their action lacked the energy and severity that purely military canons would have justified, it cannot be a matter of surprise, that having so long been accustomed to peace, they were unable to comprehend at once the sudden conditions of war. As it was, though not executed with the skilled precision of regular troops, the movement accomplished its purpose, and the failure to move the freight trains out of the city, to which more than any fact the subsequent burning is attributed, was the result of the want of cooperation of an adequate and competent police, and the desertion, at the critical moment, of the railroad employés.

"The behavior of the Pittsburgh troops, in a military sense, is without excuse; but was it any worse than the defection of officers and men in the regular army, who, in 1861, deserted their comrades in arms to join the communities in which they were born and bred? Such things are not military, they are political or social; and it cannot be expected that they should be judged by the severest military code. It was, in fact, the temporary excitement of unthinking men, carried away by the universal clamor around them. For that reason, when the burst of passion was over, I re-instated them; otherwise, new troops would have had to be enlisted, while these might be trusted to have a keener sense of duty, from a desire to retrieve their fame. In the case of the Philadelphia troops, although disheartened by being placed on the defensive, and a part of the command demoralized by a too precipitate retreat, the general steadiness and obedience to orders, under comparative hardships, and in real danger, show them to have been composed of the best of soldiery material. The failure to subdue a city in insurrection against the laws is not to be attributed to the want of courage, capacity, or fidelity in the officers and men, but to a natural disinclination to take life indiscriminately, and the uncertainty as to how far, under the laws, they could exercise a purely military discretion. For myself, I have every confidence in the Guard, and shall not hesitate, if another occasion should unhappily arise, to rely upon its fidelity and courage. The after service of the Guard, when assembled together, prepared for active campaigning, was all that could be desired. The fact that as many answered the call for a service likely to be long and dangerous, as assembled in the pleasant encampment at the centennial, is conclusive proof of the general zeal and fidelity of the troops."

The causes which led to the riots are, in the opinion of your committee, as follows, to wit: The riots grew out of the strike of the railroad men, and the strikers themselves were the protest of the laborer against the system by which his wages were arbitrarily fixed and lowered by his employer without consultation with him, and without his consent. There are many other causes that combined to bring about the strikes, but the cause mentioned underlies the whole question, and it is the foundation of all the trouble.

Instead of capital and labor working together in harmony, as their community of interests would dictate, a conflict has been growing up between them, which, if not averted or discontinued, will lead to more serious troubles than any that have yet occurred, and which must result, as all such conflicts do, in the defeat of the labor interests and in consequence thereof placing labor at a still greater disadvantage than it now occupies. This conflict has been engendered and kept up by demagogues who, for their own advantage, seek to control the votes of the laboring men for base and partisan motives and who, in order to more surely secure their ends, profess to be the only and true friends of the laborer, and persistently misrepresent the capitalist. It is much easier to move a body of men (which, like a large portion of the laboring class, has but little time to investigate the problem of the true position of labor and capital towards each other) by appealing to passion and prejudice, and in this respect your demagogue knows the material he has to work upon and allows no scruples of either honesty or modesty to restrain him. He is the leading spirit in organizing and keeping up so-called labor organizations of one kind or another, and which organizations, as heretofore managed in this country, have never resulted in any advantage to the men in whose ostensible interests they are gotten up, but, on the contrary, have inflicted untold damage on them. The demagogue likes to be appointed to some position in the labor organizations, and is not slow in suggesting a traveling agent or lecturer, with some supposed duty, where he can travel about the country, living at his ease on the fruits of the hard labor of his comrades, and spending freely the money that is as freely furnished him.

Why cannot the laboring men of the country see through the flimsy disguise of these men, and look at them as they are, the leeches and vampires who prey upon the life-blood of the interest they profess to befriend. There are men in all parties who have, or claim to have, some reputation as statesmen, who are not above the arts of the common demagogue, and who seem at times to be running a race with him to see which can stoop to the lowest tricks to secure the votes of the dear laborer. By the efforts of these men, and the tricks they practice, this conflict has been brought on. But the capitalist himself has not been blameless; instead of, in the common phrase, meeting his workmen half-way, and trying to come to a fair understanding with them, he has put himself on his dignity, and has placed all the blame of the results brought about by the demagogue upon the laborer himself. He must remember that the laborer is human, with hopes and aspirations as well as passions and prejudices, and that it is much better to cultivate the former by fair, frank, and courteous treatment, than to inflame the latter by the opposite course. The laborer believes, as he has a right to believe, that his wishes should be sometimes consulted, and that he should be recognized as one of the parties to the contract, and as such, fully consulted whenever the same is to be changed or abrogated. We believe it is in the power of the capitalist who is an employer of men, by fair, frank, and just treatment of his employés, not only in the immediate question of wages, but also in looking after their social and educational interests, to completely undermine and destroy the occupation and influence of the demagogue spoken of, and create that mutual trust and friendship which ought to exist between labor and capital, and thereby put an end to the frequently recurring strikes which inflict such serious damage on the business of the country, and do no man or set of men the least particle of good.

Many instances of the favorable results following such action might be given, but we will only refer to one instance, which occurred in Yorkshire, England. Titus Salt, whose father was a woolen manufacturer at Bradford, in Yorkshire, at the age of twenty-one years, started out in business for himself, by hiring a small mill and one or two men, who, with himself, did the work of the establishment, and so diligently and wisely were his affairs managed that in a few years he found himself doing a successful and rapidly increasing business, and by a lucky discovery of the value of the wool of the Alpaca sheep, and its manufacture in dress goods, he soon acquired a fortune. This necessitated the enlargement of his mill, and to do this the more conveniently, he moved some two miles from town and erected a large manufactory, in which he gave employment to some four thousand operatives. Having been a laboring man himself, he knew the needs and wants of the laborer, and he accordingly erected neat and convenient cottages for the use of his employés, which were rented to them at a moderate rental, with the privilege of buying to those who were able, thus assisting them to procure a home of their own, and giving them a substantial interest in the success of the business they were employed in. He also caused to be erected churches which all could attend, and also school-houses, wherein every child could receive a good and thorough education. A public park was laid out and completed, bath-houses built, and clubs and lyceums established, Mr. Salt taking the lead and encouraging his people to carry out and sustain these institutions. In a short time a thriving town was built up which was named Saltaire, in honor of its founder, and here the laborer has an opportunity to enjoy himself like other human beings, with no thought of occasion for strikes, the employer or capitalist and employés all feeling a common interest in the fortunes of their place, and with none of the jealousies or prejudices now commonly existing between these two classes. Mr. Salt has been created a baronet, but this can add no additional honor to the name of a man who has successfully solved the problem of the true relations between labor and capital, and who has taught the capitalist to what noble duties it is possible to devote himself, and the laborer, that the barrier between the sympathies of the master who employs and overlooks, and the man who works, may be broken down in other and better ways than by hostile combination. Such a town as Saltaire, with its neat cottages, pleasant parks, clean streets, fine churches and schools, where labor is respected, and intemperance banished, is a better monument than any made of marble or stone, and will perpetuate the name of its founder more surely and completely than if he had made a fortune by grinding down his human help to the last farthing, and then on his death-bed bequeathing it to some public institution.

The immediate cause of the first strike which took place in Pennsylvania, in July, 1877, to wit: that at Pittsburgh, July 19th, was the order by the Pennsylvania Railroad Company to run "double-headers" from that place to Derry. This order of itself, had there been no previous reductions of wages or dismissals of men on account of the depression in business, would probably have caused no strike, but following so soon after the second reduction, while the ill feeling engendered thereby was still having its effect on the men, together with the spirit of independence and probably recklessness which was brought about by the organization of the Trainmen's Union, with its general plan for a strike on the 27th of June, and the feeling of uneasiness and dissatisfaction existing among the laboring men of the country generally, caused by the want of labor and the low price thereof as compared with a few years previous, all together combined to set in motion this strike, which was followed by results so disastrous as to be forever memorable in the history of the State, results unforeseen and unanticipated at the commencement by the actors therein. The few trainmen who refused to take out the freight trains on the morning of July 19th, while not intending or wishing to cause any destruction of property or loss of life by their action, still cannot escape the primary responsibility of the fearful scenes enacted at Pittsburgh during the few following days. The order which the railroad company made was one it had a right to make, and if the men did not wish to work under the order, they had a right to refuse to do so. So far there can be no question among reasonable men. The order having been promulgated several days before it was to go into effect, gave the men plenty of time to consider its effect, and if they did not wish to go out on double-headers, fair treatment would have dictated that they should have given the officers of the company reasonable notice of their decision prior to the time at which the order was to take effect, but this did not comport with the intentions of the men. They not only did not intend to work themselves under that order, but they did not propose to allow those who might be willing to accept service of the company on the double-header trains to do so, and when they combined together and raised their hands to prevent other men from working, they committed an act for which there can be no excuse.

It was hard for them to see not only their wages cut down, but also to see an order issued, which, if carried out, would result in the discharge of one half of their number, at a time when work was not to be had, but this does not justify, and cannot excuse their interference with the right of a corporation to take such measures as it may think most beneficial for its own interest, so long as it does not interfere with the rights of others, and especially can it be no excuse for one man, or set of men, who do not wish to work under certain regulations, to interfere with those who are willing to do so. The property of all citizens must be protected, and the laws must be enforced, and those who undertake to interfere with the one, or stand in the way of the enforcement of the other, must learn, however severe the lesson, that these things cannot be tolerated in a land of liberty and of law, and that however much trouble and expense they may succeed in inflicting on the subjects of their spite, in the end law and order will triumph, and those who stand in the way are those who suffer the most.

Every violation of law, if suppressed or punished, is done so at the expense of the community where the violation occurs, and the greater the violation the greater the expense. This expense must be met by taxation, and as taxation is so arranged as to reach every member of the community, the result of this, therefore, is that the person who creates a disturbance or commits a crime which requires the intervention of the officers of the law, is forced to pay from his own pocket a portion of the expense incurred in its vindication.

The practice of a little arithmetic ought to convince any one that violating the law is a very expensive luxury, besides bringing him into disgrace and subjecting him to a penalty. This argument is not intended for the professional criminal, as it is not expected that he can be reached by any argument, but it is hoped that it may reach those who usually intend to be law-abiding citizens, and whose fortunes are affected by the good or evil fortune of the community in which they reside, and that this class may be induced to pause and consider before they attempt to use unlawful means to redress any grievances, however great it may seem to them. The destruction of property, although it may belong to a corporation, results in a direct loss to the labor of the country. It is conceded that all property and capital is created or produced by labor, and, therefore, any absolute loss, by the destruction of either, must, in the end, fall upon the laborer. The argument sometimes used, that if property is destroyed its replacement gives employment to the laborer, and that, therefore, it is a benefit to him, is fallacious, for the reason that the capital necessary to pay for the reproduction of the property destroyed must be originally created by labor. The capitalist who loses his property by fire is much less able to furnish employment than he was before, and if this destruction overtakes the property of a whole community, capital to replace what is lost must be drawn from some other locality by borrowing, and while times may seem prosperous during the time the re-building is being done, yet there has been an actual loss to the community, which, sooner or later, must be felt. The draining of capital from one place, to any great extent, causes its loss to be felt there, and there is no way in which the destruction of property, in one place, can be made good there, without the loss being felt somewhere, and in the end most fully and completely realized at the locality where it occurred.

The effects of such destruction of property may be temporarily prevented by bringing capital from other localities, as before suggested, and business affairs may, for a time, seem even more prosperous than ever; but when the capital thus brought is to be repaid, comes the re-action, and the loss is felt even worse than it would have been had no such borrowing have taken place. Witness the city of Chicago, as a notable instance in the recent history of the country. The buildings destroyed by the great fire at that place were speedily rebuilt, a good portion being done by borrowed capital, and it was really surprising to see with what amazing rapidity the losses seemed to be replaced, and the city rise, as the phrase goes, "Phoenix like from its ashes." Business went on, seemingly, as brisk as ever, and it was boastingly proclaimed that Chicago beat any city on the continent in recuperating power, and that it was a greater city than before the fire. But pay day must come. The property destroyed had been replaced, but not by the creation of capital by labor. The seeming wealth had no substantial foundation, the re-growth having been too rapid to come from this source, and how stands that city to-day?

The city treasury bankrupt, with a very serious question arising whether the municipal government can be maintained much longer, and private bankruptcy on every hand, for the pay day has come to considerable of the indebtedness, and the shift of borrowing cannot be resorted to forever. The lesson to be drawn by the striking laborers of Pittsburgh, from this illustration is obvious, and it should be taken to heart and pondered on by all labor organizations throughout the country, lest, by their unwise and hasty action, they may strike a blow which will re-act on themselves with treble the force with which it is aimed at some corporation or capitalist. It may be expected that an opinion will be given as to whether or not the Pennsylvania Railroad Company were justified in making the reduction in wages of ten per cent. on June 11, 1877, and, ordinarily, the question might be answered that this, or any other, corporation or individual has the right to pay such wages as it or he pleases, and to require such services for the money paid as it or he may choose. This rule must be received with considerable modification, in the case of a great corporation, receiving special privileges from the State, and employing thousands of men, scattered from one end of the State to another.

If such corporation should execute a written contract with all of its employés on taking them into its service, specifying fully and particularly the hours and service required from them, the length of time for which each was hired, and the causes for which he could be discharged, no one would claim that they could vary the terms of that contract, without the assent of the employé. From the manner of the employment of the railroad employés in this country, and especially of the trainmen, there is in good faith an implied contract that the employé shall continue to receive the wages the company is at that time paying for the particular duty which he discharges, until the price is changed by mutual consent, and that his term of service shall continue as long as he behaves himself well and performs the services required of men in his position. This ought to be, and is in equity the implied contract between the parties, although not legally enforceable. But the railroad employé has a right to expect such treatment by the company into whose employ he enters. He is required to be on hand whenever called for, to give his entire attention to the business of the corporation, and he settles down with his family in such place as will make it most convenient for him to attend to the business of the company. His whole services are theirs, his arrangements are all made with reference to their business, and when he is discharged, without any reasonable cause, without any prior notice, or his wages reduced while his labor is not reduced, and, as is sometimes the case, increased without his consent, and the order for that purpose made without consulting him in any manner, he has a right to find fault. He is like a soldier, whose whole time has been spent in the service. His occupation is more dangerous than that followed by others, and the kind of services he has to perform unfits him for other duties, and railroad officers should always take these facts into consideration in dealing with him.

The wages of the trainmen, after the reduction in June, 1877, were as follows, to wit; Freight conductors: first class, two dollars and twelve cents per day; second class, one dollar and ninety-one cents per day; brakemen, one dollar and forty-five cents per day, and the day's work averaged from seven hours and twenty-five minutes, the shortest time, to eight hours and thirty-five minutes, the longest time. These wages were good wages for the amount of labor performed per day, and if the men could make full time, would amount to thirty-eight dollars and seventy cents per month for brakemen, and fifty-five dollars and twelve cents for first class conductors. This was higher wages than the same class of men could get in other employments and seemed to be, as stated by the president of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, some twenty per cent. higher than the wages paid in other lines of business, the company intending to keep the wages of its men about so much more than is paid in other occupations on account of the risk taken by the trainmen. It is claimed by the railroad officials that the depression in freight traffic on the railroads, both in amount and in price, required a consequent reduction in the expenses of the railroads, and the reduction of June, 1877, they asserted to be justifiable, under all the circumstances, and it is the opinion of your committee that, if before it had gone into effect, the men had been made fully acquainted with the reasons for the step taken, and the necessity of it, in short, treated as if they were reasonable men and entitled to consideration, very much of the dissatisfaction would not have existed, and the country might possibly have been spared the troublous scenes through which it passed at that time. No doubt the fact that a strike of the trainmen of the Baltimore and Ohio railroad had taken place at Martinsburg, West Virginia, on the 16th of July, and was gaining strength and headway, had its influence in determining the trainmen of the Pennsylvania railroad, at Pittsburgh, to commence their strike at that place, and, in consequence thereof, a much less grievance was needed than would otherwise have sufficed, as an excuse for their action. The fact, also, that the trainmen on other railroads were rapidly following suit, and stopping the running of freight trains on such roads, encouraged the men to persist in their course to stand out and prevent, by force, trains from being run on the Pennsylvania railroad.

There seemed at this time to be an epidemic of strikes running through the country, not only among the railroad men, but among all classes of laborers, and this helped to precipitate and bring about strikes at all the places about which this report will treat. The general feeling of uneasiness existing among the laboring classes of the country before mentioned, and the sympathy felt by these classes for each other made them very susceptible to anything which affected their fellow laborers, and, to use a medical phrase, the labor system was in a good condition to receive the epidemic which was spreading over the country, and in a very poor condition to resist and throw off the disease. The strike once inaugurated at Pittsburgh, was strengthened and encouraged by the sympathy the strikers received from nearly all classes of the citizens, and more especially by the sympathy shown by the city officials. Had the community frowned on the attempt of the strikers to prevent, by force, the running of freight trains, as it should have been done, and had the civil authorities shown a firm determination to enforce the law at the outset, as it was their sworn duty to do, there can be no doubt but the mob would have been dispersed without bloodshed and riot, as it was in Philadelphia, Scranton, and other places. Philadelphia and Scranton are particularly mentioned, for at these places there is a much larger proportion of the turbulent class than at Pittsburgh, and consequently a great deal more of the material of which riotous mobs are composed. When any community winks at a small violation of the law, by any person, and more especially by a combination of persons, it is laying the foundation for trouble and difficulty. A crowd of people assembled for the purpose of accomplishing, however worthy, a purpose in a questionable manner, is very easily converted into a riot, and when a crowd proposed to carry out an unlawful object by violence it soon becomes an uncontrollable mob, if encouraged in its purposes by the sympathy, either expressed or passive, of the community and the civil authorities. The small show of force made by the police in the spasmodic manner, it was on July 19th and 20th, was worse than if no police force had ever appeared on the ground, for the strikers knew they had nothing to fear from them, and the lawless characters, who had begun to gather around, construed this action as a sort of license to do what they chose as long as they interfered with nothing but railroad interests.

The refusal of the mayor to go to the scene of the disturbance himself, when specially requested to do so, and to raise a special police to meet the emergency, is inexplicable on any theory of a wish on his part to do his duty and enforce the law, and when contrasted with the vigorous measures taken by the mayor of the sister city of Allegheny, and of nearly every other place in which riots occurred, must be most humiliating to the people who elected such a man as their chief magistrate. Had he shown a proper appreciation of his duty by going to the grounds of the railroad company when requested, he would have known better the extent of the troubles threatened, and if determined to enforce the law, could have prepared to do so by swearing in special policemen, as was done in all other places. If he chose to rely on a subordinate to do what was manifestly his duty, and that subordinate failed from any cause, either incapacity or sympathy with the mob, to appreciate the danger, and take measures to prepare for it, the responsibility must still rest on him. His evidence, that he received reports from his officers through the night of the 19th and 20th, that all was quiet, is belied by all the testimony in the case. When a call was first made by the railroad officials for ten policemen, and for his personal presence, followed in a short time by a call for fifty policemen, and that by a call for one hundred and fifty, most men would have concluded that all was not quiet, even if the police should report to the contrary. This taken in connection with the fact that the morning papers of the 20th, contained the call of the sheriff on the Governor for troops, and the orders for the troops to assemble, and that this was done only after an appeal, soon after midnight, by the sheriff in person to the crowd to disperse, and their answer to him by blasphemy, and hooting, and yelling, and other indignities would leave the people generally to believe that the mayor had willfully shut his eyes to what was transpiring on the premises of the railroad company.

Very blind or confiding policemen they must have been that night of the 19th and 20th, and very confiding was the mayor to go to Castle Shannon, a distance of six miles, and let matters take care of themselves. The mayor, to excuse himself for doing nothing after the sheriff made a call for the troops, says that he considered himself superseded by the sheriff and by the military. It has usually been considered that the military was subordinate to the civil authority, and that the clause of the Constitution, which reads: "The military shall, in all cases, and at all times, be in strict subordination to the civil power," means something, and was placed in the Constitution for a purpose. If the construction of the law, given by the mayor, is to prevail, people have been very much mistaken in their understanding of what is the law, and that all the military need do, under the mayor's dispensation, is to get some authority to call them out, and then, as they supersede the civil authority, they have full control, and can decide for themselves, when the necessity for their services has ceased, and can, therefore, take charge of the affairs of the community as long as any ambitious officer may elect. It is a new doctrine, this of the mayor's, in this country, and he must excuse this committee if they fail to take any stock in it. The other excuse given by the mayor for his inaction, to wit: That the men (meaning the sheriff and military officers,) who had charge of matters after the 19th, were narrow gauge men, and he could not coöperate with them in their views, and the measures necessary to be taken in the emergency, is also untenable. It does not appear that he ever consulted with these men, or any one of them, in regard to what should be done, while it does appear that he was sought after, and frequent attempts made to consult with him by the railroad officials, until they learned that nothing could be expected of him. If his excuse for neglecting his duty in the matters within his immediate jurisdiction, (to wit: Keeping the peace, dispersing a mob, and enforcing the law in the city of which he was chief executive officer,) is a valid one, the others might, with the same propriety, claim that his gauge did not suit them, and, therefore, they could not coöperate with him, to keep the peace in his bailiwick, and refuse to do anything, and the mob allowed to have its own way.

If the officers referred to were superior to the mayor, he should have done what he could to coöperate with them, in dispersing the mob, and suppressing the riot, and on them would rest the responsibility for the measures they adopted; if they were not superior to him, then even he will not claim that he had a right to do nothing. All peace officers (and the military when called out to suppress a riot, is only a posse for the peace officers) are expected, and it is their duty, to coöperate for the purpose of keeping the peace. An officer, willing and anxious to do his duty, will never object to do what he can to enforce the law because some other officer or officers are trying to assist in the same object, even if they do not consult him, while one who is looking for some excuse for evading his duty is very apt to find one that will satisfy himself, although it may be satisfy no one else. Mayor McCarthy, at any time on the 19th day of July, at the head of a determined posse of fifty men, could have dispersed the strikers, and allowed trains to go out, and the trains once running, the strikers would have given up the contest. On the 20th of July, the mayor, with one hundred men, could have dispersed the crowd, and by the arrest of a few ringleaders broken the strength of the strike.

These statements are made on the supposition that the mayor had been in earnest, and acted with the vigor that characterized several of the mayors who were called upon for the same duty in their respective cities at nearly the same time.

The mob knows instinctively the feelings of the bystanders and officers, and a little encouragement makes it very bold, while a determination to enforce the law by a few brave officers will cause the same mob to disperse, for it is an old and true saying that mobs are cowardly. This report has already stated, as a matter of fact, proved by the evidence before the committee, that all classes of the citizens of Pittsburgh sympathized with the trainmen in their strike. Some of the citizens claim this is hardly true, but most of them admit it, but deny that any of them sympathized with the riotous conduct of the mob and the destruction of property by it. The best description of the feeling of that community was given by Sheriff Fife, who testified that there was a general sympathy with the strikers; the entire laboring class sympathized with them; the merchants sympathized with them to a certain extent; that the responsible portion of the people of Pittsburgh were not in sympathy with the riot, but that it took a certain amount of riot to bring them to their senses. That this sympathy with the strikers pervaded the whole community does not admit of a reasonable doubt. There may have been, and no doubt were persons who did not sympathize, but they were isolated cases, and so few as to be of no use in controlling or directing public sentiment. There are a great many evidences of this aside from the direct testimony of most of the witnesses who were asked the question. The fact that Sheriff Fife testifies to that he did not undertake to raise a posse to disperse the mob before calling on the Governor for troops, as it would have been folly to have tried it in the city for he knew the feeling of the people, he might possibly have raised a posse in the country, if he had had time, is one evidence. On Saturday, the 21st, he sent out twenty deputies to raise a posse to assist in arresting the ringleaders, and they did not raise an average of one each, after, as they testify, making a vigorous effort. The action of the Pittsburgh troops, also shows that the same feeling of sympathy pervaded them, and the actions of the mayor and police show conclusively the same thing, so far as they were concerned. The editorials in the newspapers of the city show as strongly as any evidence can, where the sympathy of the community was, these being the best exponents of public sentiment when not repudiated by the people. The prejudice among the shippers over the Pennsylvania railroad against that company on account of the alleged discrimination in freight against them, caused them also to sympathize with the trainmen, and the general feeling was, after the commencement of the strike, to let the company take care of itself. No one can doubt that the existence of this feeling in the community was well known to the strikers, and that it encouraged them to hold out in their purposes and make them more bold in their adoption of measures to resist the company, and prevent by force any freight trains from leaving Pittsburgh.

This feeling of boldness and confidence in disregarding the law communicated itself to the new comers in the crowd, many of them being the worst criminals and tramps, until the mob became so confident that they could do as they pleased, that they did not believe any serious attempt would be made to disperse them, until the railroad company had yielded to the demand of the strikers, and that if such an attempt should be made they could easily repel it. None of the citizens had the remotest idea that the strike would culminate in any serious riot or destruction of property, neither did the strikers themselves expect this would be the result, but the resistance to law once started, the original movers soon lost all control of the movement, and the consequences were such as to astonish the most reckless among them. No one could have foreseen the result, and the experience of the people of Pittsburgh, with strikes prior to that time, had not been such as to lead them to anticipate anything serious in this case. There being many manufacturing establishments in and around that place, employing a large number of men, strikes were quite familiar to them, but as they were usually confined to the men of one establishment, or one branch of trade, they were arranged without serious disturbance of the public peace, and no one realized the danger in winking at the course of the strikers in this case. No strike had ever before taken place under such favorable circumstances to make trouble. Never before were so many of the resident laborers out of work, never before was the country so filled with tramps to flock to such a scene of disturbance, never before was the laboring class of the whole country so ready to join in a move of that kind, and never before were the civil authorities of the city so utterly incompetent to deal with such an outbreak, or if not incompetent, then criminally negligent, in not making an earnest effort to enforce the law. The railroad riots of 1877, have by some been called an insurrection, for the reason that strikes occurred at nearly the same time on several of the main trunk lines of the country, that several Governors of States issued proclamations warning the rioters to disperse, &c., some of them calling on the President of the United States for troops to assist the civil authorities in dispersing the mobs and enforcing the law, and the large number of men engaged in these troubles in the different parts of the county. Insurrection is defined to be "a rising against civil or political authority; the open and active opposition of a number of persons to the execution of law in a city or State; a rebellion; a revolt."

The railroad riots in Pennsylvania were not a rising against civil or political authority; in their origin were not intended by their movers as an open and active opposition to the execution of the law. Most of the riots were the result of the strikes by a portion of the railroad men, the strikes being intended to bring the railroad officers to a compromise with the strikers, of the differences between them. In some places the men merely proposed to quit work, and not interfere with the running of trains by any men the railroad authorities could get; in other places they would not allow other men to work in their places, nor railroad officials to send out freight trains, if in their power to prevent. It was in no case an uprising against the law as such, but a combination of men to assert an illegal right as between them and the railroad company. There was no organized movement throughout the country, no pre-arranged plan of the trainmen to prevent the running of freight trains by violence or combination, understanding or agreement between the men on any one railroad and the men on another. Each strike was independent of those on other roads, each having a local cause particularly its own. As before stated, there was a sort of an epidemic of strikes running through the laboring classes of the country, more particularly those in the employ of large corporations, caused by the great depression of business, which followed the panic of 1873, by means whereof many men were thrown out of work, and the wages of those who could get work were reduced to correspond with the reduction in the prices of all commodities and the reduced amount of business to be done. Each strike, except at Reading, although commenced originally by men then at work for a railroad or some other corporation, to carry out their own purposes, was soon joined by all the idlers and vagabonds in the vicinity, and these being by far the largest in number, soon took the movement out of the hands of the originators and carried it clear beyond anything they ever anticipated. The vagabonds having no object but plunder, and having no particular interest in anything else, were ready to resort to violent measures to accomplish their object.

The immediate cause of the strike at Pittsburgh was not similar to any other that has come to the knowledge of this committee, it being the order to run double-headers. No such cause existed anywhere else, and, therefore, the troubles there could not be considered as a part of any general understanding between trainmen. At Reading, the railroad men were not engaged in any strike, nor did they take any part in the riots there. The troubles there were caused solely by idle men, who had some time previously been discharged from the employ of the Philadelphia and Reading Railroad Company, and for the purpose of venting their spite on the company. At Scranton, although there had been a strike of the railroad men, this had been adjusted, and the men were at work again, when the riots occurred, the riots being engaged in by the idle men and striking miners and mill men. If a riot, growing out of any of these isolated movements, is to be called an insurrection, or if these movements, altogether, are to rise to the dignity of an insurrection, then the word must be given a new definition, for as it now stands, there must have been some pre-concerted arrangement between the men at the different points, to resist the laws of the country, or the move at some point must have been for the purpose of resisting constituted authority, and not the mere purpose of forcing railroad companies, or any other corporations, to come to terms with the strikers, by obstructing the business of the railroad or other corporation. No pre-concerted arrangement of any kind has been proved before your committee, although such persons as might be supposed to know the fact, if it existed at all, were subpœnaed and testified before us, and all of them positively deny that there was any concert of action whatever, among the trainmen, for a strike after the 27th of June, and a local cause for the different strikes in Pennsylvania is given by them all. It has been asserted by many that no rioting or destruction of property would have taken place at Pittsburgh, if the troops had not been called out, and had not fired on the mob. The trifling with the mob, at this place, by the civil authorities, and the sympathy shown by the citizens, with the original strikers, had emboldened and encouraged it to such an extent, that when the Philadelphia troops arrived on the ground, it had, no doubt, got beyond the control of the civil power, as then constituted, and there can be no doubt of the necessity for the presence of those troops. Such mobs as that at the Twenty-eighth street crossing, on Saturday evening, July 21st, at the time the Philadelphia troops were marched out there, would never have dispersed without making serious trouble, troops or no troops.

How long it would take a mob to disperse and melt away of its own accord, which on Thursday numbered from fifty to two hundred men, on Friday from five hundred to fifteen hundred, and on Saturday from two thousand in the morning to seven or eight thousand in the afternoon, and which was growing all the time more turbulent and excited, we leave for the advocates of the do nothing policy to determine if they can. The firing on the mob by the troops, and the subsequent inaction precipitated and aggravated its action, but did not create the riots. When a great line of public travel and traffic like the Pennsylvania railroad is blockaded by a mob, the public interests suffer more than the railroad interests, and every day that it is allowed to continue, damages the community to the extent of thousands of dollars, and it was the duty of the local civil authorities to adopt the most vigorous measures to break the blockade, but if instead of doing this, they temporize with the mob until, in consequence thereof, it becomes too strong to be suppressed by them, and the troops of the State are called on for assistance, the latter cannot be said to have caused the riots, or held responsible for the consequences of an honest effort to enforce the law. If the rioting was caused by the calling out of the troops, and their subsequent actions, then the claim that that was an insurrection falls to the ground, and if there was an insurrection, then the troops cannot have been the cause of the rioting, as the two positions are inconsistent, although held and advocated by a number of prominent men.

JOHN E. REYBURN,
  Chairman.
E. D. YUTZY,
W. L. TORBERT,
  Committee of the Senate.
W. M. LINDSEY,
  Chairman Joint Committee.
D. C. LARRABEE,
A. F. ENGELBERT,
SAMU'L W. MEANS,
P. P. DEWEES,
  Committee of the House.

W. M. Lindsey, Chairman.
Samuel B. Collins, Clerk and Stenographer.
J. J. Cromer, Sergeant-at-Arms.
—— ——, Messenger.

The committee met at half past ten o'clock, A.M., this day, in the orphans' court room, city of Pittsburgh.

The roll of members being called, it was found that all the members were present.

The committee engaged in a consultation as to the mode of procedure in taking testimony—as to whether the sessions of the committee should be public, and as to whether counsel should be admitted to represent parties who might be summoned as witnesses.

G. H. Geyer, Esquire, counsel for the county commissioners, was invited before the committee for the purpose of ascertaining what the commissioners desired; also W. B. Rogers, Esquire, counsel for the city of Allegheny, was invited before the committee for the same purpose. The county commissioners in person also appeared before the committee.

The committee was waited upon by Mr. Johnson, a member of the chamber of commerce, who gave information that the chamber had appointed a committee, of which he had been elected chairman, for the purpose of giving aid in obtaining information relative to matters being investigated by the committee. On behalf of the chamber of commerce, he also tendered the use of their hall for the sittings of the committee.

Upon motion of Senator Reyburn, it was ordered that a session should be held this afternoon, from three to six o'clock.

Pursuant to adjournment, the committee re-assembled at three o'clock, P.M., this day.

Upon motion of Senator Reyburn, the chairman of the committee, Mr. Lindsey, was selected to conduct the examination of witnesses on behalf of the committee.

The committee proceeded to the examination of witnesses. The first witness called was:

A. I am still a citizen of Pittsburgh, although I have been attending to my business for the last three months in Philadelphia.

A. I was then what was called the general counsel of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, resident at Pittsburgh.

Q. Can you tell the committee whether, prior to July last, there were any differences existing between the Pennsylvania Railroad Company and its employés?

A. On that subject I have no personal knowledge. Any differences, if they did exist, between the employés and the company were known to the operating officers of the company, over whom I have no control. I only know it as a matter of public history, as other persons.

Q. Were you present at the disturbances of the peace within the city of Pittsburgh in July last?

A. I was during a portion of those disturbances, but not during all of them. If it is desired that I should give you a connected statement of what I did see, I would begin with where my personal knowledge of the transactions commenced.

A. On the morning of Thursday—that week in which the disturbances occurred—I cannot recollect the date—on that morning there was no appearance of disturbance. I state this from the fact that Mr. Pitcairn, the superintendent of the western division, and I live within a very short distance of each other. We take trains at the same station, and when I went there that morning I found him there with his family, preparing to go, for a visit of some length, to Long Branch. The strike which had occurred on the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad was the subject of conversation between us during the few moments that we were together there, and I know, at that moment, he had not the most remote apprehension of any disturbance. I came into town on the train, and knew nothing of any disturbance until about noon, when I heard of the assault having been made upon Mr. Watt. I did not see it, or I would narrate it.

A. He was the chief clerk, or assistant to Mr. Pitcairn. About nine o'clock that evening I received a dispatch, stating that Messrs. Hampton and Dalzell, the local solicitors, who took charge of the local business, were absent from the city, and requesting me to come to the outer depot. I did so. I got off at the Twenty-eighth street station. There was quite a large crowd of people at that station. Just when I got off, an engine was coming up from the direction of the Union depot. I do not know from whence it had started. Immediately, there was a cry that it must be stopped, and there was a rush of a large number of that crowd towards the engine. It did stop, and a loud halloo went up from that crowd.

A. That I cannot tell. My point was to reach the outer depot, and I spent no more time there than was necessary. At the outer depot I found that Mr. Pitcairn had not yet reached the city, although he had been telegraphed for. I found Mr. Watt there, his assistant, and learned from him the extent to which the disturbance had gone. That he can give you personally. Finding from that statement that a call had been made upon the mayor for assistance to regain the property of the company, and that it had been ineffectual, I went up to my office for the purpose of looking at the act of Assembly passed in 1877, and also the law providing for calling out the military by the Governor. I spent some time in doing that, leaving word for Mr. Watt to come to my office, so we might call upon the sheriff for the purpose of dispersing the mob, and regaining possession of the company's property. He came up in a short time, and we rode to the sheriff's residence, and woke him up out of bed.

A. That was, probably, between ten—no I am not certain about the hour—about ten or eleven o'clock. I stated to the sheriff that the property of the company was in the possession of a large number of the employés and of citizens—the information was that—I had no personal knowledge of it—Mr. Watt was with me—and that an effort had been made, through the mayor, to regain possession, which had not succeeded, and that we called upon him, as officers of the company, to ask him to go to the outer depot and exert his power, as sheriff of the county, to disperse the crowd assembled there, and to restore possession to the company of its property. I said I came as counsel of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, and, that as it would probably be one of the most delicate exercises of power he could be called upon to make, I insisted he should send for his own counsel to accompany him, as if he found his power insufficient to disperse the mob, and to restore to the company possession of its property, we would ask him further to advise the Governor, so he might exercise his power, if he found it necessary. The sheriff replied that Mr. Carnahan was his counsel, and that he resided at East Liberty, and that he could not get him in time to go to the depot. He went for a deputy, who lived across the street—Mr. Haymaker, I think—and we all drove to the outer depot, on the way finding Mr. Pitcairn, who had arrived in a train from the East. When we reached the outer depot, General Pearson was there. He had been apprized by the Adjutant General. The sheriff was again informed of the desire of the company to obtain possession of its property, and have the crowd dispersed.

A. I have said this was on the Thursday preceding the actual burning and destruction. As a matter of memory, my recollection is that it was the 19th, although I am cautious about dates, as I have not a good recollection about dates. The sheriff then went out with General Pearson to Twenty-eighth street. I did not go with him. He came back after the lapse of probably three quarters of an hour, reporting that he found himself unable to disperse the mob, and that he could get no force to enable him to disperse it. I then said to the sheriff that it was a question for him to determine whether he had exhausted his power for the protection of the company's property. He said he had exhausted it, and that he had made up his mind to ask the Governor to call out the troops to disperse the mob. At his request, I wrote a dispatch to the Governor, and submitted it to him, General Pearson, being present as I understood, acting as his counsel at the time. Some requests had come to send a dispatch to the Lieutenant Governor. I was satisfied that it was not such an occasion as authorized the Lieutenant Governor to act; but public information in the newspapers being that the Governor was absent from the Commonwealth, I suggested to the sheriff, as a matter of prudence, that a dispatch should be sent to the executive office, at Harrisburg, addressed to the Governor; that a copy of it should be sent to the Secretary of State, who was then in Beaver, we understood, with information that it had been sent to executive office; that another copy should be sent to the Adjutant General, who was understood to be in Philadelphia, and that the Lieutenant Governor should be informed of the fact that such a dispatch had been sent to the Governor, that he might have that information, and, if he had the authority to act, might exercise it.

A. That was in the neighborhood of twelve o'clock that night. I am giving my judgment about those hours. Those dispatches signed by the sheriff were sent. There was a great deal of telegraphing that evening there, between myself and the officials of the railroad company, Mr. Pitcairn and others, the details of which I cannot now recollect. In the course of several hours after that dispatches were received from Mr. Quay and the Adjutant General by the Sheriff, informing him that the Governor had ordered out the troops. Dispatches were also received there by General Pearson, from the Adjutant General, giving him the same information. I cannot give the hour of those dispatches; but I know before we left the office, probably about five o'clock in the morning—four or five o'clock, perhaps—the sheriff and General Pearson had both received dispatches to the effect that the Governor had ordered out the military to the assistance of the sheriff, and that General Pearson had drawn an order, in pursuance of those dispatches, for one of his own regiments of this city to turn out. Probably about five or six o'clock that morning several of us left the office and went to bed at the Union depot. That was Friday morning. Now as to the actual progress of the strike. What occurred at the outer depot during Friday, I believe, I have no personal knowledge, and I do not know that I had any intercourse with any of the officials of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, and not, probably, with the military officers, until about four or five o'clock that evening. There was delay in the military responding to the general's orders. Some information reached our office, where I was engaged in other business in the office of the Penn company, that General Pearson was about to open the tracks with the military, and was starting for that purpose from Union depot. Mr. Thaw and I went up there together. When we arrived, there was a company ready to go to Twenty-eighth street. Mr. Cassatt was there, one of the vice-presidents of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company. I do not know what was said when I got there; but in some way my opinion was asked as to the propriety of the movement. Somebody asked me, I do not know who. There were a great many people around the dispatcher's office, where General Pearson was. I was asked the question. I said in reply, that as an officer of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company I had no opinion at all to give, that the civil power of the country having been called upon, and the sheriff having been called upon, and the military being there with General Pearson in command of them, I certainly would not give any instructions that would interfere with the discretion either of the sheriff or of General Pearson. I might reply, as a citizen of Pittsburgh, that there was no need of repeating the old maximum, which had got very trite, that there was no use in firing blank shot at a mob; but that when they were ready to strike, they should do it effectually, and disperse the mob. The General stated to me there the force he had, some sixty men in that company and a battery called Breck's Battery, the remainder of his force was at Torrens station. He also stated he had a number of men then at Twenty-eighth street.

A. Out to East Liberty is four miles, and Torrens station is probably a quarter of a mile beyond that. From the length of time that had elapsed, and a number of the men not having responded, I felt satisfied it would be prudent to have more troops before striking, and I so telegraphed to Philadelphia. General Pearson, at that point, said: I believe I could take this battery up there and open the track at that point, but it would be with very great sacrifice of life.

A. To the president of the road—Colonel Scott. I said in that dispatch, from the dilatory way in which the troops were coming, I thought that the troops ought to come from some other quarter than from Pittsburgh. General Pearson was evidently reluctant to sacrifice life, even if he could open the road by doing so, and wished Mr. Thaw and myself, as officers of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, to sign a request asking him to delay his movement. I refused to do so, saying that I would not control his discretion as a military man—that what should be done, at that time, should be left to him to decide. I left then and went out home that evening, and staid at home Friday night and saw nothing more of the riot than a passenger would see in passing out through the large crowd assembled at and about Twenty-eight street. I cannot estimate the number there, but the road was blocked and the hill was largely covered, when we went out on Friday evening. I returned to the city on Saturday morning, but did not see what transpired along the Pennsylvania railroad during that morning, as I was busy in my own office at Tenth and Penn streets. There was a great deal of communicating back and forth between the officials of the road, between Philadelphia and here, and west of this point, in reference to the strike. I was not present when the troops arrived from Philadelphia. I was pursuing my business in my department that evening until I went over to go out to my home, at Shady Side. The train I took was delayed, the firing having already commenced at Twenty-eight street. Word had come by telegraph, before that train started, that the firing had occurred. I went out in that train, through a dense crowd, both of civil and military men, at Twenty-eight street; and I was at my home during that night. The firing began that night, probably about eight or nine o'clock. I came into the city the next morning, and went to the Union Depot Hotel with some ladies who had been left on the train that could not get in the night before. It is not necessary for me to say what occurred. I found a place of safety for them. I found that the Union Depot Hotel was not a safe place at that time. I saw at that time the fire progressing up, but I was not any nearer to the scene of the riot at that time than the Union Depot Hotel. Secretary Quay and Adjutant General Latta were in the Union Depot Hotel making preparations to leave it.

A. The station where I get off is a fraction over three miles from the Union Depot Hotel, and my residence is probably four or five hundred yards from the station.

Q. State whether at this time there was any rioting nearer to the Union depot than Twenty-eighth street, at the time you speak about when General Latta and Secretary Quay were in the Union Depot Hotel.

A. The fire had progressed, and was then progressing on this side of Twenty-eighth street up toward the Union Depot Hotel. I cannot say where the fire first originated, but looking up Liberty street from the Union Depot Hotel, when I was there, I should say the fire was then some six or seven blocks from the Union Depot Hotel. I could see it distinctly spreading across the street. I was not at the scene of the riot during Sunday; I was with the officers of the railroad company in Allegheny City, in conference as to the best mode of preventing further trouble, destruction, and rioting over portions of the road west of Pittsburgh. I do not know that I can give any further information in giving my personal knowledge of what I saw of the actual disturbances.

Q. Have you any knowledge as to what was done by the railroad company after that time?

A. I might state upon that subject, that upon Saturday afternoon, while the officers of the western lines were in Allegheny City, a committee of citizens—at least a committee appointed at a citizens' meeting—a representative of Bishop Twigg—one of his clergymen, whose name I do not recollect—and Reverend Mr. Scoville, of the Presbyterian Church, and James I. Bennett, came to see what we could do in the way of suppressing the riot, and asking that some concession should be made to the men on the road. We replied to them substantially, that so far as the railroad company was concerned, we thought the mob had done about its worst. This was when the Union depot was burning—at least Mr. Thaw and I were on the hill a short time before, and saw the fire so near that we supposed it was then burning. We said it had now ceased to be a question between the railroad company and the employés, and was one between the public authorities and the mob, between government and anarchy, and that so far as we had anything to do with the question, we were now in an utterly defenseless position, and we thought, being in that position, if we were to make the concessions which had been demanded in the beginning, we would be breaking down the only barrier between anarchy and their property, and that now the question for the citizens to determine was whether they would make any effort to stop that lawlessness which would next reach them after it had spent its fury on the railroad company. So far as the efforts to stop the rioting by negotiations or compromising with the men were concerned, I had no direct connection with them. That occurred between others—friends of the road, the general management, and the representatives of the men—and I knew of them only in a general way, from hearing what was said by the officers, which was substantially, that while the men were in the position of law breakers, and holding control of the company's property, we could not yield to the demands extorted by that kind of violence; but that, if things were restored to their normal condition, the company was perfectly willing to meet the men, and negotiate with them in regard to this matter just as in regard to any other difference.

Q. Upon this Thursday you speak of, you say you found, at a certain stage, that the road was in possession of the mob—substantially a mob—that then you went to the sheriff, and then, with him, to the depot, and found General Pearson there. Now, can you state to us who called for, or who sent for the militia—who called upon the State Government?

A. I have already stated that the call for the militia was made by Sheriff Fife, after he had gone out with General Pearson, and endeavored to disperse the mob at Twenty-eighth street. He then came back and reported his inability to do so, and that he had no further power at his command, and announced his decision that he would call upon the Governor, and, at his request, I wrote a dispatch to the Governor, announcing his conclusion, and asking for the Governor's aid.

Q. Did you call upon the mayor for assistance before you called upon the sheriff?

Q. Was General Pearson connected with the sheriff's office at that time as a deputy?

A. Oh, no. I stated to the sheriff that I was calling upon him as counsel for the railroad company, and I insisted that he ought to have his own counsel to guide him in determining his duty in this emergency; but, saying that Mr. Carnahan was his regular counsel, and that he could not send for him, he went to the depot without him, with a deputy named Haymaker. When we reached the depot General Pearson was there, saying he had been requested by the Adjutant General to be there. When Sheriff Fife saw him there, he turned to me and said: "Mr. Scott, I know him, and for this occasion I will be governed by his counsel." General Pearson was not there as a deputy or a clerk, but in obedience to the dispatch of the Adjutant General, and the sheriff, finding him there, was governed by his counsel at that time.

Q. Have you any knowledge as to who sent for the troops at Philadelphia, who ordered them here?

A. I have no other knowledge of it than that which came in the dispatches that night, which was that the Adjutant General had ordered them. A dispatch came from Mr. Quay saying that the Governor had ordered out the militia.

A. I have no actual knowledge as to who ordered them out, except in a general way; the Adjutant General was here afterwards, and when those troops came it was my understanding, derived from my intercourse with General Latta and all the others, that the military had been ordered out by the Adjutant General, he being the military officer of the State under the Governor. In speaking of all this, I am giving what occurred by the dispatches in the outer depot while I was there.

Q. Can you give the extent of the destruction of the railroad property by the fire?

A. I have been informed that the officers of the road are yet engaged in making up a full statement of the losses of the company, and any estimate I might make would be so entirely unreliable that, if it is important to the committee, I prefer sending for those who have that subject in charge.

Q. Can you give the extent of the burning, the destruction of property in general?

A. My statement would be simply from observation—that the burning of property commenced at or very near the station of Lawrenceville.

A. I would suppose a mile and a quarter or a mile and a half. That is an estimate. I do not know, I may be wrong about that. It is the second stopping place out from the Union depot. The destruction on the track, of cars that were there, and buildings extending from Lawrenceville all along past the Union depot and embracing property of the Pittsburgh, Cincinnati and St. Louis Railroad Company, on Seventh street, in this city, the number of cars burnt, the number of locomotives destroyed or disabled, the value of the goods in those cars, and the value of the buildings that were destroyed, and the injury done on the road are all matters of computation upon which my estimate would not be worth anything. It will have to be obtained from actual examination of those who inspected them.

A. I cannot say, except as a matter of public information. I was not present. I have already stated I was at Shady Side on Saturday evening, when the fire commenced.

A. I saw the light in the evening about nine or ten o'clock, and sent my son in to ascertain the state of things.

Q. Of your own knowledge you do not know whether it was a car that was first burned or a building?

A. Of my own knowledge I cannot say at what point the fire began, or by whom it was kindled.

Q. Can you state of your own knowledge what classes of men composed the rioters during the burning. Whether the mob was composed of railroad employés or of others than those, and if of others, of what class?

A. That would be in part my personal knowledge, but I could not give an answer to that without confounding together my personal knowledge and matters of information. I will give the result, if you wish it.

A. The first difficulties, which were brought on by the employés of the company taking possession of the engines and trains, were, so far as I could judge, or saw, exclusively by those who had been railroad employés up to that point. The action which Mr. Pitcairn took with reference to that when they took that possession I cannot state. Things went on, with a great crowd accumulating from that Thursday morning, and while I say, as a lawyer, that there was a riot and mob there from Thursday morning down until the firing began, with a crowd constantly accumulating, as it would on account of any disturbance that had occurred, yet there seemed to be a feeling that it was not that kind of a riot or mob that called for the interposition of a very vigorous public sentiment to put it down; but, when the military were brought for the purpose of regaining possession of the property, and the collision was actually brought on, I can say that the mob was made up of a great many other people than railroad employés. I did not see them, nor was actually among them so I could identify any of the railroad employés, or any persons outside, but from my knowledge of the immense crowd which was assembled at Twenty-eight street as I went in and out, there were undoubtedly a great many other than railroad employés about the scene of violence, and I have no doubt participating in it.

Q. You say that while the employés were in possession of the cars of the company, there seemed to be no such riot as required the intervention of public sentiment to put it down?

A. I did not intend to say that, but that while it was confined to railroad employés public sentiment did not seem to manifest itself as requiring any decided interposition to put that down. In other words, I am bound in candor to say, when asked for it, that public sentiment here very clearly distinguished between the act of breaking the law on the part of the employés in taking possession of the railroad property, and stopping commerce at this point, and the act of rioting and incendiarism which followed in consequence of that initial breaking of the law.

Q. That is, that public sentiment did not assert itself vigorously against the employés taking possession of the cars and engines prior to the actual outbreak and destruction of property?

A. I am a citizen of Pittsburgh, and here along with the rest of them, am bound to say that the newspapers pretty fairly reflected the public sentiment in what they said. If you wish to see what it was, instead of asking my opinion, owing to my relation with the railroad company, if you will take the editorials of the various morning and evening newspapers from the 19th of July, from the day on which this thing occurred, down until some days after the actual firing occurred, I think you will find that the editors evidently tried to reflect the public sentiment, and I think they succeeded pretty well in doing it. If you wish to get that you had better ask the sheriff what responses the people made to him when he asked them to become part of his posse. I did not hear what was said, but the sheriff knows.

A. He said to us in the Union depot he could not, and reported to me the next morning that he could not do it.

Q. Have you any knowledge whether the mayor tried to subdue the riot or assist the sheriff in trying to subdue the riot?

A. Not to my personal knowledge, again. I did make one effort to have accomplished what I thought would have conduced somewhat to the public peace that afternoon, Saturday afternoon. That is the only fact within my own knowledge. About one o'clock, Saturday, seeing a large number of people attracted to the depot, and knowing that a large number of operatives were free from work that afternoon, I thought it a measure of precaution for the mayor to close the drinking saloons in the city. I drew up a paper, stating this fact, as politely as I could, and that paper was signed by Mr. Thaw and Mr. McCullough, officers of the company, and I took it over and had Secretary Quay and Adjutant General Latta sign it also, and then sent it up to the mayor, and the messenger reported to me that he had left it at the mayor's office in the hands of his chief clerk, I think he said; I never heard any more of it.

A. His name I cannot give you, but I placed it in the hands of D. H. Rudy; he can give you the name of the messenger who sent it up. That is the answer that I got, that he left it in the mayor's office. What was done with it I do not know.

A. I can only say that the drinking saloons were not closed, and I did not see any proclamation closing them.

Q. So if you were not a citizen of Pittsburgh, do you suppose you would think that the mayor had done his duty, as an officer ought to, at that particular time?

A. Being a citizen of Pittsburgh, I cannot put myself in the position of not being one. I will have to leave you to judge.

Q. At the time you first spoke of meeting the crowd of employés, and their taking possession of the engines on Thursday—the first outbreak you spoke of what was done on the part of the railroad company to ascertain the cause of that commotion?

A. I did not understand that there was any secret about the causes of it all. I am giving now the public understanding. My understanding was simply this: That an order had been made—Mr. Pitcairn can tell you more fully about that—an order requiring the running of, what are called double header trains—two engines to one train, and some of the employés alleged that that imposed on them additional work without additional pay. I believe that is the short of it, and rather than comply with it, they struck. I understood that was made the cause of beginning the disturbances here.

Q. Did you or any one, on behalf of the railroad company, communicate with those men?

A. I did not. I understood the operating officers did, but I cannot tell what occurred between them.

A. I came here the last time in the spring of 1865. I have been here three times. Since that spring I have been superintendent of the division.

Q. Now give us your statement about the riots. Tell us whether there were any differences of opinion or disagreements between the Pennsylvania Railroad Company and the employés prior to the 20th of July last.

A. There were no more differences than there have been since the road has been opened. There have always been differences.

A. No more than heretofore. The company reduced the wages of all officers and employés ten per cent. in June.

A. Yes. There was a good deal of friction and complaint. Committees called upon me, and committees from the different divisions of the road visited Mr. Scott, the president, and had conferences with him on the subject. They complained because of the reduction. He explained that the cause of it was the condition of the country, and that as soon as business would become brighter, that then the company would entertain their petitions and would act fairly with them, when the committee, as they informed me, as Colonel Scott and others informed me, professed their satisfaction, and said there would be no trouble, but that they would work harmoniously.

A. That is a question of opinion altogether. The company for many years back—the officers have been trying all in their power to economically manage the road, loading the engines to their full capacity and making them up differently. There is hardly a year passes, but that some of the officers finds some way of more economically running the road. There was an order given to make up what we call double-headers between Pittsburgh and Derry. Since the road has been opened we have always run double-headed, and sometimes three engines ahead and one behind, between Altoona and Conemaugh. The object in running the double-headers to Derry was for the purpose of making the trains go through to Philadelphia without being divided; that is, it takes two engines to haul a train from Pittsburgh to Derry, whether two engines ahead or behind, or two separate trains; and to avoid the delay of running two separate trains to Derry, one ahead waiting for the other, we put two engines in front of the trains, when one engine cuts the train going to Conemaugh, and the one put behind goes down to Altoona, and goes through from there.

A. The order of running double-headers on all through trains was the morning of Thursday, but we had always run double-headers between Pittsburgh and Derry, perhaps from one half to two thirds. The order was to take effect on that Thursday, and was to make them all double-headers.

A. Not that I am aware of. Up to that time we always considered the double-headers a question of economy.

A. We could run them with a less number of conductors and brakemen, but not of engineers and firemen. As many double-headers as we had would take off one single crew of conductors and brakemen each.

Q. That was on Thursday. What was the first riotous occurrence showing that the men were dissatisfied after the issuing of that order?

A. I had leave of absence on Thursday morning to go to Philadelphia. For a few days previous I had asked the men—asked the subordinate officers—as I always do when I see them, if there is any trouble. I was assured then that our men were more satisfied and loyal than they had been, and I was perfectly free in my mind in going away on Thursday morning. I left in the day express on the Thursday morning when the trouble began.

A. When I reached Altoona I got a telegram from Mr. Watt, who represented me here, saying that a few of the men, after the train I was on had left, had refused to go out on the double-headers, and that they were trying to create a disturbance, and saying what action he had taken, and that his idea was that it would be all right, and for me not to stop off but to go on, that the matter would be all right.

A. About twelve twenty, when I reached Altoona. I had no train to return on and I thought I would go on the day express and think over the subject, and when I reached Lewistown I made up my mind that I would return. So I arranged for my family, who were accompanying me, to go on, and I returned on the fast line from Lewistown, reaching here at eleven thirty.

A. Yes; eleven twenty-five. On my way west I telegraphed to my subordinate officers to meet me in Pittsburgh. I intended to get off at the outer depot, Twenty-eighth street, but there was a large crowd there, and I came to Union depot, and walked up to where my office then was, at Twenty-sixth street, and on my way I met a carriage with the Honorable John Scott and Mr. Watt and the sheriff. I got in the carriage and went to my office, at Twenty-sixth street, and there found my subordinate officers, and General Pearson was there.

A. Joseph Fox, road foreman; John Major, road foreman; David Garrett, assistant trainmaster; Edward Pitcairn, trainmaster; Joseph McCabe, general dispatcher. Mr. Scott, the sheriff, and all the parties there were consulting and talking together, when the sheriff made up his mind to go up to Twenty-eighth street, where the crowd was interfering and preventing trains from running. I wanted to go up and talk to the men, when my subordinates prevented me, and said there was no use of my going up, because none of our men were there. Few, if any, of our own men were there. It was a crowd. They persuaded me to remain, while the sheriff and General Pearson went up to Twenty-eighth street. They came back and reported the result of their attempt to disperse the crowd, when the communications, as stated by Mr. Scott——

A. They said they went up and went to the crowd and called to the crowd to disperse and go to their homes, and they made no impression, and received nothing but vulgar abuse.

A. Then came the communications to the different parties. The Governor, and Mr. Quay, and Lieutenant Governor Latta, and Adjutant General Latta, and then came the replies, and the message to General Pearson to order out one of the regiments, I think, which he did.

A. Between twelve and half past four in the morning. I think the order calling out the troops came after the Governor's message. All left the office about half past four. General Pearson, who had written his orders about the regiment before, and I parted at the Union depot. General Pearson went down town, and Mr. Scott, Mr. Watt, and myself went to the Union depot hotel for the purpose of retiring.

Q. When you came in from Altoona did you notice the disturbance at Twenty-eighth street?

A. It was dark, and I could not see any of the crowd. I do not know how many were there.

A. I do not know; they did not stop our train. I went to bed; but it was not five minutes until I received another telegram, and another, pertaining to the business of the road. So I got up. There were a number of messages from President Scott and the general superintendent. They had an idea we could move the trains in the morning, and were giving different orders about stock and different things.

A. The efforts to move the trains on Friday morning were, securing the crews and firing up the engines, and having everything ready to move when we could get through the crowd.

A. Old employés. I want you to bear in mind, that in starting the trains, the crews were always there, professing their readiness to go out, and at no time had we not sufficient crews to take the whole number of cars out.

A. I was about continually, and I do not think I ever saw over three or four of my own men in any crowd, if you leave out the sub-officers.

Q. On Friday morning you had crews enough to start all the trains; did you give orders to start?

Q. Did you think at that time that the crowd was so large that the trains could not run through it?

Q. Do you think if a train had started you could have run it through the crowd, and gone on—in your opinion?

A. If the crowd had not turned the switches. The switchmen were there, but under the management of the crowd.

Q. Did you go up there where that crowd was Friday morning, to see, of your own knowledge, whether the trains could run through or not?

A. On Friday morning we had a crowd at two points, Twenty-eighth street and at Torrens station. To both places I went.

A. On Friday morning, to connect my story, I went up with General Pearson at Twenty-eighth street, and he talked to the crowd. I think the sheriff was along.

A. I have very little idea about the numbers of a crowd—it was a very large crowd.

A. As I said before, I never recognized, I would be safe in saying half a dozen of our men that I knew.

A. I would say six hundred or a thousand. There was a crowd. I have no idea what number a crowd is.

A. I found one man that I knew as an employé, but I cannot name him. He talked to me, that is the reason I remember him.

Q. The track was clear at that time, so that the trains could have run through if they had allowed it?

A. There seemed to be an understanding, from the remarks made by the crowd, that they had sufficient force to prevent the trains going out. As for example: At Torrens a party told me it was bread or blood, and they could get any number of men to come up and prevent the running through of any train until the matter was arranged with them.

A. A train man. He may have been a flag man. I thought I knew his name, and came down to see a party arrested, but it was not the man. I have not seen him since.

Q. Were the threats made about preventing the running of the trains by employés or others?

Q. When you doubled up the trains, how many men did you relieve. That is, on the morning of the Thursday that this outbreak occurred?

A. If there were ten single trains and I doubled up, I saved five conductors and five flagmen and ten brakemen.

Q. Was anything said to them, that they were suspended for a certain time, or were they just dropped?

A. Those crews were not suspended, but that many men, and a great many more, because the business had gone down, were suspended, and we were choosing the married men and the old men. The old men and the married men were chosen, in preference to the single men.

Q. But by suspension do you mean discharge, or do you mean suspension temporarily?

Q. This was one of the causes, this doubling up, as I understood you to say, that created the dissatisfaction here at this point?

Q. Did you not only reduce your crews, so far as the conductors and brakemen and flagmen were concerned, one half of a train, if it was sent out as a double-header?

Q. Were any of the discharged men among the crowd at Twenty-eighth street or at Torren's station that morning?

A. Yes; I saw quite a number of men who had been discharged for cause as well as suspended on account of the reduction.

Q. You deemed it unsafe from that time on to start your trains, from the time you visited Twenty-eighth street and Torren's station that morning?

A. The sheriff and General Pearson—the sheriff ordered the crowd to disperse and General Pearson, in fact, made a calm and warning speech, and told them what his orders were, that the military had been ordered out and what the consequences would be, and coaxed and pleaded with them to disperse before the military came up that had been ordered out.

A. In regard to the time of any of those occurrences, from Thursday until it was all over I was not in bed, and it is kind of cloudy in my mind as to the different hours; but as to the hour, I should say that this was about twelve or one o'clock, Friday.

A. That I cannot tell. On Friday—I cannot tell. I do not remember if there were any soldiers at Twenty-eighth street. I cannot tell. Friday night the Pittsburgh troops were brought out.

A. Only from hearsay. A great deal occurred between Friday night and Saturday night.

Q. When the sheriff and General Pearson went to the mob, was the mayor of the city, at that time, acting in conjunction with them?

Q. You do not know whether he issued a proclamation or assisted in any way whatever?

Q. You do not know whether he took an active part in the matter of suppressing the riot?

A. Only Mr. Watt informed me on Thursday morning, and then the sheriff was called Thursday evening.

Q. Do you know when the first call was made on the sheriff, of your own knowledge?

Q. Were you there when the dispatch was sent for troops—the first dispatch, when the sheriff made up his mind to call upon the military?

Q. The call upon the mayor and on the sheriff was not made until after you returned?

A. The call on the mayor was made on Thursday morning and the call on the sheriff was made on Thursday evening.

Q. Had you become satisfied then that you could not run your trains on account of the mob which had assembled?

Q. Did this ten per cent. reduction apply to all the officers and employés of the railroad company?

A. All the officers and employés, except those who got one dollar a day or less, either by the month or day—the track men getting ten cents an hour for ten hours. All above one dollar were reduced.

Q. In regard to the dispatch which you received from Mr. Watt—did you receive any other dispatch except the one you received at Altoona, asking you to come back, or which caused you to make up your mind to return?

Q. After you got back you say the crowd had assembled—had there been any attempt by the crowd to prevent trains from running?

A. The first double headers went out from Pittsburgh all right—they were not troubled.

A. From three o'clock in the morning up to nine o'clock or eight o'clock in the morning.

Q. You say the crew of that train would not go out. Were they discharged then when they refused to obey orders?

A. After I got home, I had too little control, and wanted to get along as well as I could.

Q. Can you give any idea of the loss to property that occurred through this riot?

A. No; not of my own knowledge. I have no idea. The bills are coming in every day.

A. I suppose our controller or one of the vice presidents could give them as estimated up to to-day.

A. I might say no. Of course, occasionally, a wheel or two might be an exception, but none could be used again.

Q. Tell us now the movements of the troops, the Pittsburgh troops first, and then the Philadelphia troops?

A. The Pittsburgh troops—most of them—were moved at night. One regiment was moved or went up the hill east from here on the arch of the hill, and then came down on Twenty-eighth street, so as to come down on the crowd.

A. On Saturday morning. General Pearson ordered the battery to be taken up to the same place. It was loaded in the cars at the Union depot, and I was requested to move it up about two or three o'clock in the morning, to get there when the troops would be there. About two and one half or three o'clock, I had just gone to bed when they told me that they would not take the gondolas with the guns up.

A. That is it. I went down and saw the men, and asked them why they would not do it, and they told me they were afraid of the crowd, that they would like to oblige me. I said if you don't take those trucks up, I will have to discharge you. They told me that they would like to do it, but their lives were threatened. They would not do it, so I had to take them up myself. I went up to Twenty-eighth street with the guns, and then I saw this large crowd.

A. No one said anything to me at the Union depot, only they kind of crowded around. When I got to Twenty-eighth street, they made a kind of rush, and when they saw I was running the engine, I expected them to attack me, but they did not. They did not say anything to me, only kind of crowded around. They got on the tank and saw no one but myself, and did not say anything.

A. We brought the troops to Twenty-eight street with the battery on Saturday morning, and at the same time there was a regiment at Torrens. General Pearson and the sheriff and I went to those two places at different times to see what we could do. At Torrens that regiment, apparently, had the mob under control, that is they would not crowd around the tracks. The military seemed to be by themselves, while at Twenty-eighth street they were all mixed up—the military and the mob. Then I received word that General Brinton's command was coming on Friday night or Saturday morning. They ought to have arrived about noon; but did not get here until about four o'clock. They arrived at the Union depot about four o'clock on Saturday afternoon. We unloaded them, and got some coffee and sandwiches, and word was given to them to march to Twenty-eighth street, and clear the tracks.

A. Some of the military. Mr. Cassatt, who arrived here on Friday, directed me to get two crews together, that General Brinton's command would clear the tracks, and that I could slip the trains out, and that everything, then, would go all right. Then General Brinton's command commenced to march, and the sheriff came up with about twenty members of his posse, and I urged him to hurry up and get there before the troops, and that if any of our men were there, I would talk to them, and perhaps prevent trouble. I went up. The crowd kept coming in on us all the way from the Union depot, so we took a large crowd up there. The crowd followed us up. We were so delayed in warning the crowd to get away that they came up close to us, and when we got to Twenty-eighth street, General Pearson was there, and the sheriff and his posse ahead of the military. The sheriff, I think, attempted to arrest one man who was very noisy, and then there was a general rumpus, and I was thrown back by the crowd and got in among the military companies, who had formed on Twenty-eighth street. They formed up and down on the north side, and up and down on the south side, and brought a company up between Then a man threw me back, and the company coming up the street allowed me to get in between. They went up, I suppose, to disperse the mob.

A. I do not know; he was a great big man; he was a friend of mine, I know; it was not an attempt to hurt me. This company moved up, and dispersed the mob, and the command was given to charge bayonets, and put the bayonets between the people so as not to hurt them.

A. That is it. They were going to push them away. Then the crowd commenced cheering, and I saw two or three bayonets twisted off, and then a lot of stones were thrown at the military. General Pearson came back to me then, and said he was going to the office—was going to get more troops. He then went away. I could not get out. Then they commenced firing.

A. About five o'clock on Saturday afternoon. I could not get out until the firing was all over and the crowd dispersed.

Q. When the soldiers went up they did not attempt to injure the crowd? Were any of the soldiers hit and wounded at that time, before the firing—before they attempted to fire?

Q. In other words, they attempted to do it without using force. Just by pressing back the crowd?

A. The crowd immediately around Twenty-eighth street, on the track, were workingmen—mill men. The other men, from their appearance on the hillside, were citizens. A great many people that I knew.

A. They were yelling, and in through the men. There were very few women that I saw. They were all laughing and jeering at the soldiers.

Q. How long did the militia stand fire from the mob? Stand those stones and clubs before they fired?

A. Then the company moved up and got in the crowd, and there was a man in the crowd hallooed shoot, and two pistol shots and a great many stones followed, and then the soldiers commenced firing, and then there was shooting just that quick.

A. They dispersed the crowd by the firing, and as soon as I got out, I went down to my office, at Twenty-sixth street. I there found General Pearson, and I reported to Mr. Cassatt what had been done. He was talking to General Pearson, and General Pearson was writing telegrams to General Latta at the Union depot. Then General Pearson and General Brinton were discussing what to do next, and whether Twenty-eighth street was a proper position for them to take, or to go up the hill or to come into the shops—what they had best do with the men. General Pearson was telegraphing for orders. They decided they would come into the shops, in order to get under shelter. The crowd was congregated around my office, and around the shops. General Pearson told me he would stay there, and as he had had nothing to eat that day, asked if I would send up some provisions: I told him I would go down to the Union depot and send all the provisions I could. So Mr. Cassatt and myself went to the Union depot, and I tried to get provisions up to the soldiers, but they were all confiscated by the crowd before they got any. I then went up to the room where General Latta and staff were. All this time the drums were beating, and crowd after crowd was moving up toward Twenty-sixth street. Mr. Cassatt said we were powerless to do anything, and directed me, or rather relieved me altogether of any—he said I had no business in Pittsburgh. All the time, during Friday and Saturday, one after another had come to me and said I had better leave. At the Union depot, they had got a report that I had given the order for the troops to fire. They had a coffin and a rope for General Pearson. All these reports were spreading about. Numbers of people told me to leave, and Mr. Cassatt directed me to leave. I afterwards left in company with Mr. Watt and Mr. Cassatt.

A. We loafed around the outskirts, and then went to Blairsville and reported, and made our head-quarters there at the Blairsville intersection. There I remained until I received word from Mr. Garrett that some of the old men wanted to see me to see if the matter could not be arranged, and to see if the trains could not be moved.

A. On Tuesday. I was informed that some of the old men wanted to see me, and had other messages that I should come, and I came down to Pittsburgh.

A. I mean I met them the Friday of the trouble. I told them I could not possibly send such a paper to Mr. Scott. Then this other committee met me on Wednesday after I came back. I met that committee, and instead of what I expected, they brought out the old proposition.

A. It was that no double headers, and full crews, and, I think, twenty per cent. advance. It was everything. I have got the paper. There are about four, or five, or six demands.

Pursuant to adjournment, the committee re-assembled at three o'clock, P.M., and continued taking of testimony.

Q. Commence with the troops at the round-house, and tell us what troops were quartered there, and give a detailed statement of the movements of the troops from that point during the continuance of the riot?

A. I said that the Philadelphia troops had dispersed the crowd, and that made an opening for me to get to my office, where I found Mr. Cassett and General Pearson. General Pearson was telegraphing for more troops to come up. General Brinton arrived just behind me, and reported to General Pearson the result, that the troops had fired without orders, and what had been done. Then there was a consultation as to the disposition of the troops, whether they should go up the hill or remain an Twenty-eighth street, or come in to the round-house. They were asking our opinion. I remember, they asked Mr. Cassatt's opinion. I told Mr. Cassatt that I did not think he had any opinion. I remained there, and Mr. Cassatt with me. Before I left they decided that they were going to take the shops and the round-house to protect their men. I left, promising to send provisions, and went to the Union depot where I remained until some time in the night, and then went to Blairsville. When I left Mr. Cassatt, we had word that Brinton had gone to the Allegheny side, by the West Penn. That was what induced me to go to Blairsville. Not knowing where to go to, I felt that was my head-quarters for the time, we being compelled to run trains over the West Penn.

A. I think that afternoon or evening. It might have been the next morning, but I think it was that evening. The next day, though, I was ordered to remain at Blairsville. I met this committee. Train-master Geyer wanted me to come down. I came down Tuesday, I think, or it might have been Wednesday morning, but I met the committee with the confidence that everything was going to be settled, but they brought this paper out that I told you was presented to me at Pittsburg, and with the committee that met me, instead of being very old men that we considered loyal men, there were some members of the committee who were among the suspended men. Nevertheless, I communicated the whole petition to President Scott, and asked for a reply. Mr. Scott's reply was in substance what Senator Scott told you was their reply to the citizens here, namely: that the welfare of the country would not allow him to give way to the men at the present time; that there were other interests involved, and that if they would go to work to start the trains again he would be glad to receive them. The conference with that committee amounted to nothing. The fact of the matter was, I was caught in a trap. I came down to see my old loyal men, and found suspended men, who, in an official way, I could not deal with, not being in our employ. A question was put to me this morning about the number of men suspended. I do not know how many suspended men we had at that time. I then came to Pittsburgh. I had orders to repair the damage, and try to get the main track through to the Union depot as quickly as possible, to gather up the force then scattered through the city, and the men who had gone to their homes, to repair the track and get to Union depot as quickly as possible. I went to the mayor, and asked him if we would commence work there if he would give protection. He said he would.

A. I think Thursday. I was gathering up the men, but was cautioned by some of the citizens not to go out and work too brash in the beginning—not to take too many men about the ruins to clear them off, but to commence moderately, explaining the feeling of the city, how matters were not quiet there, and that delayed me some days. I met Governor Hartranft at Blairsville before I left, going to Harrisburg. After he came here we got a large force.

A. As I have said, it was all one day to me. He came here with a force, and we went to work with a large force and commenced repairing the damage. On the Sabbath after—that was the Sabbath after the Sabbath succeeding the Saturday of the fight, we arranged to move our trains, and we then had force enough to move all the trains, as we had during all the time, with the exception that this time the men asked for the military to be sent with each train, to get them through the coal regions, and through Johnstown. That matter was arranged with Governor Hartranft to send a lot of soldiers with the men, to get them through the different points where we had trouble. I think it was the first or second train that went out from Pittsburgh on that Sabbath evening that was wrecked at Spring Hill, by a switch being removed by some parties while the train was passing over. From that Saturday night or Monday morning next, we gradually sent more trains and more trains, until we got our road running as heretofore, and gradually repaired the damages. Governor Hartranft stayed here a few days, and the committees urged them to stay until, at least, he left for Scranton.

Q. You stated that when you commenced work you commenced with a small force, and that after Governor Hartranft arrived with the troops, then you increased your force?

Q. Did you feel perfectly safe, after the Governor arrived with the troops, in going to work?

Q. Did you feel safe from another demonstration of the railroad employés, or from any other source?

A. I have no hesitation in saying that we were never afraid of our own men. So far as our own men striking we were not afraid. We were perfectly able to manage our own men, so far as our own employés were concerned, if you took away from us the men suspended. But I do not pretend to say that we were not afraid of the party or parties they brought. But I know nothing about that, of my own personal knowledge. I say this: We always had enough men to move our trains, if other parties had not come in. Who they were brought by, I do not know.

Q. Your own men would never have given you any trouble, had not outsiders interfered?

Q. It was General Brinton's command which was present when the military dispersed the crowd by their fire. Was not any portion of General Pearson's command present?

A. General Pearson's command was at Twenty-eighth street. There were very few of the soldiers and some of the officers at Twenty-eighth street. The battery I had taken up on Saturday morning and some few men were there, and General Pearson's command was on the hill.

Q. Can you tell me why they did not hold their position that they then occupied—the militia. What necessity was there for retiring to the round house?

A. I knew what they thought—it was that they were coming under cover to prevent them from being struck. I was not a military man. However, I know what I should have done.

Q. What motives actuated them, after dispersing the crowd, in retiring their troops to the flat position of the street?

A. After dispersing the crowd, immediately the crowd—not that crowd, perhaps, but other crowds came back in front of my office—a great crowd. They were marching by and gathering from all quarters. By dispersing the crowd, I mean they all ran away, and then they commenced immediately coming back, and I had pretty hard work to come down to the office. The crowds were coming up the railway as I was coming down to the Union depot. All I can say is, they said that the reason for going to the round house was to get under cover.

Q. Was any effort made by the military to drive back that crowd when they commenced to reassemble?

A. General Pearson's command, I think, was dispersed, but I do not know it. I know this, that there were there soldiers that came with General Brinton's command, because some of them came down to the Union depot with messages.

Q. Would it not have been natural, under military discipline, for the military to have held their position when they had obtained a position?

Q. When you returned from Blairsville, you said you expected to meet your old employés. Now, during all these negotiations, were the old men and the married men, that you have spoken of as being retained in your employ, engaged in this riot?

A. Not to my personal knowledge or observation. The majority of them were running.

A. The general remarks of these men then were that they had nothing to do with this riot. Some of them said they ought to have the ten per cent. put back, but all deprecated this trouble, and said they had nothing to do with it.

A. They always professed to be, but we never tried them to Sunday night, and then they wanted protection, and when we gave them protection they went out.

The following is the paper of the committee appointed by the employés making certain demands, to which I have already alluded in my testimony:

Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers,
Pittsburgh Division, No. 50,
Pittsburgh, Pa., July 20, 1877.

To the Superintendent Western Division Pennsylvania Railroad:

First. We, the undersigned committee, appointed by the employés of the western division of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, do hereby demand from the said company, through the proper officers of said company, the wages as per departments of engineers, firemen, conductors, brakemen, and flagmen as received prior to June 1, 1877.

Second. That each and every employé that has been dismissed for taking part or parts in said strikes, to be restored to their respective positions.

Third. That the classification of each said department be abolished now and forever hereafter.

Fourth. That engineers and conductors receive the wages as received by said engineers and conductors of the highest class prior to June 1, 1877.

Fifth. That the running of double trains be abolished, excepting coal trains.

Sixth. That each and every engine, whether road or shifting, shall have its own fireman.

Respectfully submitted to you for immediate consideration.

J. S. McCauley,
D. H. Newhard,
John Shana,
G. Harris,
John P. Kessler,
Committee.

In regard to the classification mentioned in the paper, I will say this, that there is no classification in brakemen or flagmen. When you come to the conductors, they receive a certain rate, which I do not remember, for the first year, and ten per cent. over that for the second, and ten per cent. over that for the third, where they remain so long conductors. Now come the engineers. When promoted from firemen to engineers, they receive a certain rate, and the second year ten per cent. more, and the third year ten per cent. more, and the fourth year ten per cent. more—four classifications. That arrangement was made at their request, some four years ago, perhaps longer.

Q. These men were men who would have been suspended under the orders to run double-headers?

A. No. These men had taken such an active part previous to this Saturday, that I do not think they would have been kept in our employ, but we had no opportunity to discharge them.

Q. You were filling the place of Mr. Pitcairn on the Thursday before the riot occurred?

Q. Have you any knowledge of any disagreements between the Pennsylvania Railroad Company and their employés prior to that date?

A. There are continually matters coming up for settlement in the superintendent's office.

A. Yes; a reduction of ten per cent., which had been notified in May, to take effect on all the employés from and after June 1.

A. Except those whose pay amounted to one dollar per day, or who were paid by the month, and whose pay amounted to the rate of one dollar per day or less.

A. We were compelled to reduce our force on account of the condition of business. The volume of traffic governs the amount of wages, and the number of men we work. We had more men than we had the opportunity to give full time to. It was decided to reduce the force after the 1st of June, and the idea was to select the older men, and the men who by their services had proven themselves good and capable. To retain these and let the single men go, so as to give the married men a chance to make all the time we could afford to give them in the running of the traffic. It was also decided to run all the trains double-headers. A portion of them had been running for years as double-headers, but a notice was issued in July, advising all the employés that on and after a certain date—July 19, was the date fixed upon—all trains to and from Derry would be run as double trains. No complaint in the interval, between the date of the issuing of the order and the date upon which it was to go into effect, had been made at the superintendent's office, to either the superintendent or myself. Nor had there been any, so far as we had knowledge, to any of the subordinate officers, such as train-masters and others. Some of the men complained, of course, at not having work. It was a mooted question as to who would be the ones to go off.

A. Upon July 19; Thursday. Mr. Pitcairn had arranged to go east on Thursday, July 19, in the day express, and I came to town, reaching the office about eight and a half o'clock in the morning, and up to that time no trouble had occurred, nor was any anticipated by the train-masters nor any one in our employ. About the time the eight-forty's—the extras—were to leave, the dispatcher came to the office and reported that some of the men had refused to go out. I made inquiry as to the reason of their refusal, and was told that they refused to go out on account of its being a double-header. Conductor Ryan was the man whose train did not go out. In the making up of his train he was ready to go out, but his men refused to go. I then instructed the dispatcher to call upon all the men on the road, with those out at the train-men's room. He called upon, I believe, some twenty-five men, brakemen, who refused to go out. They gave different reasons, some because they were double-headers, and some because they would not go if others did not go. Mr. Garrett, the assistant train-master, came in on the train that reaches there about nine o'clock. I sent for him, and told him what had been reported to me, and asked him to go out and see the men and see what they wanted, and report. Mr. Garrett, and Mr. McCabe, and Mr. Hunter, dispatchers, all three tried to induce the men to go out, but these twenty-five that had first refused got the balance to join them in refusing to man the trains. Mr. Garrett, I believe, requested Mr. McCabe, the general yard dispatcher, to make up a crew from the yard brakemen to man that train. Conductor Ryan was at all times ready to go out, and the engineers belonging to that train professed a readiness to run. We had a number of conductors there ready to run, and Conductor Gordon was the man who was going to take the train out after Mr. McCabe had secured the crew among his yard men. The crew, in making up their train, were assaulted with stones, and links, and pins, and driven from the train by a number of those men who had first refused to go out. I found that we were unable to get the train out. Then it came time for the nine-forty's to go out. In the meantime the crowd had increased somewhat, and they had taken possession of the switch which is west of Twenty-eighth street, leading on to the main track, over which a train to go east would have to be moved. It was reported to me that they would not allow the engine to go over that switch. The crowd was increasing. I then started, after a consultation with Mr. Garrett and other men there, to call upon the mayor. I asked that he should protect us in the movement of our trains, by removing from Twenty-eighth street, or that immediate neighborhood, those parties interfering with the switches.

A. I did; between ten and eleven o'clock. I drove to the mayor's office, and stated the trouble to him, and called upon him in the name of the company for protection. He replied that he had no force.

A. Yes; he said that the day-light force had been taken off, probably, about the 1st of July, and that he had nothing but the night force. I asked him to give me the front office force. He said he could not send them away. I told him I must have protection of some kind. He said that he might send out and gather up a force. He wanted to know how many men I wanted. I told him if he would send up ten men in uniform, that with our own force from the depot, if he could go up to the ground with me, and I had a buggy to take him, I thought the trouble would be all over before twelve o'clock. I thought the simple fact of his presence, without the police, would disperse the crowd there at that time. He refused to go, saying that he could not leave the office. I rather urged the matter upon him. The mayor then said he had been sick, and was not fit to go. He gathered a force of some ten men, I believe, and sent officer Charles McGovern, one of the front office men, in charge of them. They were to report at the Union depot, and be moved from there by a passenger car to run especially to Twenty-eighth street. Before the force was sent, the question was asked of me, who was to pay for the men.

A. The question was suggested by Mr. O'Mora, and addressed to the mayor. The mayor then addressed me, and desired to know whether I was in a position to assume the expense. I told him certainly, that I must have protection, and that if he could not give the force, and I must pay for it, I was then ready, and would become responsible for the payment of the men. I went to the outer depot, and got there a few minutes before the squad of police arrived. I walked up to Twenty-eighth street, in company with one of the dispatchers, I think McCabe, and was then advised that we could not turn the switch, that those parties held the switch, and would not allow the engine to back down. The engineer was John Sweeny, and the conductor was S. K. Moore. We wanted to take the engine down to couple on to a draft of cars to take them out on the Wilkensburg siding. I directed Moore to turn the switch. He refused, saying to me that he was afraid, that there were men there to shoot him the moment he attempted to turn the switch. I replied: "Very good, I will turn the switch," and I made a step forward for the purpose of getting to the switch, when the crowd gathered around me, and a brakeman by the name of D. D. Davis, who, I believe, at the time was in the employ of the Pan Handle road, or else a discharged employé from there—he was not in our employ—jumped in front of me, and waving his hand, or his hat, called out: "Boys, we will die right here." I placed my hand upon his coat, and called upon officer McGovern to arrest him. While my hand was upon his coat, some one delivered a blow, and hit me in the eye. That was from behind this man Davis. Immediately an attempt was made on the part of the police officers to arrest him. Others interested with him were throwing themselves in the way of the police officers to prevent the capture, but he was finally captured, and taken to the station-house. Prior to that time, however, I had reported to Mr. Pitcairn on the day express east that there was trouble, but that I did not anticipate it would amount to a great deal, and that he need not hurry home, unless further advised by me. The first place I could reach him was at Altoona. After having been struck, and finding the crowd increasing, and determined to prevent the running of the trains, I made a still further report, stating the condition of things, and he came back to Pittsburgh on the next train on which he could reach here, the fast line west that night. After I was struck, I believe I directed Mr. Smith to write a message, either in my name, or in Mr. Pitcairn's, I do not recollect, and addressed to the mayor, calling upon him for an additional force of not less than fifty men. It may have been a portion of those men who came up on the Atlantic express, six or eight, in charge of William J. White. Mr. Garrett reported from Torrens an immense crowd gathered there. I went up on the Atlantic with this police force to try to endeavor to get the stock. There were forty-six cars, all loaded with stock, waiting for this train to come out. We expected every moment to get some train started. Mr. Garrett had made an arrangement to side track some train coming west, and to take the engines and turn them at Torrens, and go east with the stock. They were there interfered with by quite a large crowd, who notified the employés on the trains that had come west that they must not couple to or touch the cars, intimidating them and threatening that they would be killed, or that something would happen.

A. A number of railroad employés of our road and other roads and parties I didn't know, but supposed them to be not railroad men.

A. A man who had been in our employ until the morning of Thursday—Andrew Hice. He notified the parties that he would be damned if any stock should move there, and that no train should pass there until the matter was settled.

A. He had been at one time a conductor on the road. Up until that Thursday morning he was in the employ of the company as a flagman. I might here state that when I directed Mr. Garrett to go out and see the men, he was told to notify all those employés who were called upon, and who refused to go out, that they might consider themselves as discharged. One party was paid off immediately; the others had not come for their pay, and nothing was said about paying or reporting them discharged until after the troubles were over.

A. I did have a conversation at Twenty-eighth street, before going to Torrens. I called upon the crowd to disperse and leave the ground of the company, that we proposed to move our trains, and did not desire to have any trouble.

Q. Did they make any demands at that time, and if so, what were the nature of those demands?

A. They did not. They simply said it was a question of bread or blood with them. At Torrens I had a conversation with the engineers and conductors of the trains coming west, and tried to persuade them to couple on to the stock and go ahead. They, however, refused, and gave as a reason, that they were afraid for their lives to do so. Mr. Thomas Scott, day stock agent at East Liberty, and the dispatcher both said to the crews that they would couple the cars if they would back the engines; but the crews were too much intimidated to do that. Mr. Garrett started with those engines to go east, and was to stop at Wilkensburg to take there a draft of twenty-two to thirty-two freight cars, and start for Derry with them. He and I had an understanding that I would attempt to get the stock from there somehow. I was to advise him after he left whether he might expect it. We gave it out that the stock was to be unloaded, and the shifting engine at the station, there for the purpose of shifting around the yard, backed down against the stock, and, that being coupled to the train, they started at once, and before they discovered what we were after, the train was out of reach, and this train that Mr. Garrett had taken east stopped and took on the stock at Walls. This was the last stock that we got away from East Liberty. East Liberty is four and five tenths miles, and Torrens is half a mile further east. I staid at Torrens waiting the movements of a train from Pittsburgh—the train that should come out in the afternoon. An attempt was made about four o'clock to move that train. A crowd interfered after the engines had started, and the engineers left their engines, and the crews gave up the trains. I then came back to Pittsburgh and went to the office, and made a still further report to Mr. Pitcairn. I then drove again to the mayor's office. I met Captain Bachelor at the office. He wanted to know if he could do me any service.

A. The president of the Mason's bank. I found, on inquiry, that the mayor was not about when I got to his office. I was informed by his clerk, Mr. Metzgar, that he had gone out to Castle Shannon in the afternoon. That his wife was sick, and that he had gone to see her. I then asked whether anything could be done to call out the night force, fearing from the way the crowd was increasing that there might be considerable trouble. They said they could not send the police force out there and leave the balance of the city unprotected. I then drove up here to the sheriff's office—or rather the captain drove up—and found all closed here. I then drove to the sheriff's residence, on Washington street, and they replied that he was out of the city, but was expected back during the evening. I then went back to the office, and found that we could not make any movement that night, though we held the crews ready to go in case we had a chance to move.

A. It was on Thursday night. I reported the condition of affairs to Mr. John Scott, who had called at the office on his way into town, in pursuance of a message from the east, to consult with Mr. Pitcairn. During that night, and before twelve o'clock, the crowd was accumulating, and had entire possession of the tracks at Twenty-eighth street, so that we were unable to move even the engines engaged in the yard transfer work. The engineers had all been notified to put up their engines, and go into the house, and the movement of stock was interfered with. The movement of stock from the western roads—some was turned back. There seemed to be some trouble among the parties themselves as to whether the stock should go on or be sent back. I called at the office of the Pennsylvania company, to get the Honorable John Scott to go with me, and we called upon the sheriff in the name of the company for protection, and stated all that had been done up to that time. The sheriff got his deputy, who lived across the way, and we all drove out to the outer depot. On the way out we saw Mr. Pitcairn walking up, and took him in and rode to the outer depot—I think a little after twelve o'clock, midnight; the sheriff, after a consultation, went with General Pearson and some twenty or thirty men of our employés, myself among the number, to Twenty-eighth street. He there mounted upon a plank leading up on to a gondola, so that his head was above the crowd, and addressed them, advising them to leave and go to their homes, stating what his duty would be in case they did not go. He was greeted with all sorts of vile abuse, and told to go home. I will not repeat the language. He found he could do nothing there with them. He was jeered at, and while he was addressing the crowd pistol shots were fired in the air. That crowd was composed of some few railroad men, but the majority were not railroad men—a great number of them were mill men, and some of them with no occupation at all.

A. I should judge in the neighborhood of two hundred men. The sheriff then went back to the superintendent's office, and entered into communication with Harrisburg and other points, sending the telegrams as described by Mr. Scott. There was no other attempt made that night to move anything, except stock to the stockyard from the connecting lines.

A. We had crews brought in from Derry—that is the train-masters. They came in as passengers, ready to take the trains east. The majority of the engineers, up to this time, had professed their entire willingness to run at any and all times, but the crowd, on Friday, had increased to such an extent that it was not deemed prudent to attempt to start the trains without some protection afforded to the men running them, at least through the crowd. Very little was done during Friday, except the movement of stock. Friday night the troops were moved, the Fourteenth and Nineteenth regiments, I believe, to the neighborhood of Twenty-eighth street. I expected on Saturday morning that we would start our trains without much trouble. I believe they took almost complete and entire possession of Twenty-eighth street and the switches that we needed to get our trains out.

A. Yes. But the crowd assembled in very large numbers, and it was not long before the crowd had possession of them, and all the ground.

A. There was no conflict at all. The troops were stationed, one regiment on the hillside, probably some two hundred feet back from the line of the railroad, with their arms stacked, and another regiment was stationed on the road leading up to the hospital grounds, east of Twenty-eighth street, with their arms stacked, and a few men were on the crossing.

Q. I want to know if those troops left their arms stacked while the crowd was still accumulating?

A. The crowd was in and about there. Do you mean whether or not the crowd could have taken possession of any of those arms without interference?

Q. No; but whether while the crowd was still accumulating the troops had their arms stacked?

A. The crowd was accumulating, and continued accumulating up to the time of the firing.

A. No; Saturday morning. Mr. Pitcairn, and Mr. Cassett, and General Pearson, and other officers were at the Union depot. I remained at Twenty-sixth street, awaiting any instruction that might be sent me. I was advised by Mr. Pitcairn to hold myself in readiness to move some trains on Saturday afternoon—that the sheriff and posse were coming up the track, and that they would be followed by the troops, and that he expected that the crowd would be dispersed, and that we would be furnished a sufficient guard to place upon each one of those trains to move them out beyond Torrens, or to any other point where we might expect trouble. I waited, and met them as they came up. They were followed by quite a large concourse of persons. The troops held the track about opposite Twenty-fifth street, and there the Second brigade of the Philadelphia troops was left. I do not now remember the name of the general in command. However I was left with him. The First brigade moved on to Twenty-eighth street. This Second brigade threw out a skirmish line across the entire yard, with instructions from the general to drive back everybody. It was General Loud. He threw out a skirmish line and drove all parties west a sufficient distance for us to couple together all our cars and to make up our trains to go out.

A. Yes; quite a crowd of the transfer clerks, and some of our engineers, and oil men, and repair men were on the tops of the cars, who claimed to be employés, and had business there. General Loud sent an officer to me and asked if they were to remain there or whether we wanted them. I told him that we did not want anybody within a certain distance. When we had made attempts, prior to that, to couple up the trains, the links and pins all along had been taken out. I went down and advised the transfer clerks to go into the office, and I told the officer that when any of our men had business to be inside, they should be let through, and I told them that if we wanted them we could advise them. After having cleared off that space, we heard firing. I looked up in the direction of Twenty-eighth street, and saw a crowd coming down, a portion of them coming down towards where I was, right opposite the mouth of Twenty-sixth street. Seeing the crowd coming, I had the gate thrown open—the gate that closes the shops and the exit gate on Liberty street thrown open—and directed colonel, some one of the Greys, to throw a body across to prevent them going down the space he had cleared, and that we could turn them out at that point out on Twenty-sixth street. That firing occurred about five o'clock. When I speak of time in my testimony, I speak altogether of railroad time. There was no further attempt made that night to start trains. The excitement was so great, and it was quite late, so the men refused to go for fear of being thrown off the track at some point on the road. I believe that brings me up to the time of the firing.

A. Our engines were backed down from the round-house on to those tracks that the trains were standing on. We had cleared off a space there from the side hill to the line of the "transfer" clear of anyone and everyone.

A. The men got frightened at the firing, and started off. They were afraid that if they made an attempt at that time in that excitement that they would be thrown from the track.

A. General Loud was still in his position between Twenty-sixth street, and, I should judge, Twenty-fourth. The First division was at Twenty-eighth street, and a considerable portion of the crowd was between Twenty-sixth and Twenty-eighth streets, between the two bodies of troops. I asked the colonel in charge of this Grey regiment not to allow his men to fire on the crowd coming down, that they could be turned out at Twenty-sixth street, and that some of our men were there who were all right. He got in front of his men and cautioned them. He first gave the command to a captain to have his men load their pieces. That was done, and then he cautioned his men, saying it was a very delicate matter, indeed, and that the men should be very careful, and that when there was any necessity for any firing that the men must remember that he would give the command.

A. I cannot answer that as to time. I went to the office and there saw General Pearson and General Brinton, and some of the others in consultation. They were all close around the shops, and they then turned and moved into the shops. I suppose it was then about six o'clock.

A. I understand the Philadelphia troops, General Brinton's command, and the two pieces belonging to the battery here were taken into the round-house. The Fourteenth regiment had been stationed at the transfer building. The reason, I think, for their going into the shops, as I understood it, was that the men who were there had come without any preparation, and as there were to be no trains run out that night, they would go into the shops to be as comfortable as possible.

A. The crowd around the buildings accumulated so that in front of the office, at the corner of Twenty-sixth and Liberty, and for some distance on either side of it—that being the head-quarters—the office—they had taken possession of Mr. Pitcairn's office for the head-quarters—the crowd was very dense, and packed down Twenty-sixth street, probably half way to Penn, and on Liberty street, in every direction, for a square—an immense crowd of people yelling with rage against the troops.

A. I was not there during all the time, but I understood they were constantly accumulating.

A. I cannot answer that. I was on the side hill early on Sunday morning, and I could see immense crowds in all directions moving up Liberty street.

Q. Can you tell us what the result of that firing, at the point cleared, was as to loss of life?

A. I am not prepared to answer that. If you will remember, I was stationed at Twenty-sixth street, and was not at Twenty-eighth street. At the time of the firing, I was with the second brigade of General Brinton's division. There passed me, and were taken into our office, several soldiers belonging to the First regiment, and a boy who was shot down. I should judge a boy about twelve or fourteen years of age. There were two men carrying him. Quite a number of wounded soldiers were taken to the office, and they sent for Doctor Hamilton.

Q. Can you state what efforts were made, after the troops were taken into the round-house and the shops, by the officers of the militia to drive back the crowd and disperse it there that night or Sunday morning, or during the day of Sunday?

A. When they went into the round-house, I understood they would keep under cover. I do not think, from all I understood, it was the intention of the troops to come into any collision. They felt that they were brought there to protect the movement of trains, and that there would be a guard go out on each train, after having obtained possession of the Twenty-eighth street switches.

A. I cannot answer that from my own knowledge. I believe in the neighborhood of ten o'clock.

Q. Was any attempt made by the officers of the troops, or by the civil authorities, either of the county or city, to prevent that, and to drive back the crowd when they began to fire the cars and destroy property?

By Senator Yutzy: I think, Mr. Chairman, that that question ought to be modified. All the citizens were not present.

A. If you asked me the question whether or not the citizens, or any number of them, came to me and offered their assistance, then I might answer the question. The crowd certainly manifested no disposition to assist in the running of trains. The crowd, of course, was in sympathy. I speak of those who were present at Twenty-eighth street and Twenty-sixth street, on Liberty street, fronting the office, and I should say there were none at all in sympathy with the railroad company, but the soldiers.

Q. But that does not answer my question. I desire to know whether the citizens were not in sympathy with the strikers?

By Senator Yutzy: I repeat, Mr. Chairman, that I do not think this question should be put to the witness. I move that the committee retire for a few moments' consultation.

Upon returning, the chairman of the committee announced to the witness that the question would not be pressed for the present.

A. In the neighborhood of five o'clock. It was, probably, a few minutes after five o'clock.

Q. But when did the first firing occur—that is, when was the fire first kindled by the mob?

Q. Was any effort made by the railroad company, during the night, to prevent the firing and destruction of property?

A. I would hardly know how to answer that. The railroad employés that we had considered loyal and ready to run, when we desired them to go on the trains, had gone to their homes, it not being deemed prudent to run any trains that night. I left the outer depot in the neighborhood of seven o'clock, to go down to the Union depot for supper, and to arrange for the sending of supper for General Pearson's staff, and General Brinton's staff, and all his brigade generals' staff. I went to the Union depot with Mr. Pitcairn and Mr. Cassatt, and, I think, Colonel Smith, on engine forty-five. At that time the military were in possession of the shops and round-house, and I did not anticipate that anything would be done until daylight. The firing of the cars was, I understand, up at Lawrenceville, or just within sight of there, and the cars were dropped down, and the switches so turned that they would run towards the round-house—the burning cars, these, of course, would communicate to other cars.

A. It is down grade from East Liberty to Lawrenceville, and there a moderate down grade until about Twenty-sixth street, where there is a short level space, probably, two or three squares, and then there is an up grade west of that point until you reach about opposite St. Bridget's church, where again it is down grade, so that a car started from the east would run towards the round-house, and a car started from the west end of the yard would run toward the round-house.

Q. How long did the riotous proceedings continue—in other words, when did the mob disperse and cease their burning and destruction of property?

A. I left town on Sunday night at nine o'clock, and I understand they were still riotous. Of my own knowledge I know nothing after that time. Our head-quarters were at Blairsville intersection.

A. Mr. Pitcairn came west from Blairsville intersection on Wednesday, July 25, I think on the Johnstown accommodation. We were then running our through connections over the West Penn Division, from Allegheny city to Blairsville intersection, and on the main line as far as East Liberty, our mail trains, and our passenger trains, and our Uniontown express over the south-west road.

Q. Were you present when the troops fired upon the crowd? If so, state all the circumstances that took place at that time?

A. I have already said that I was not at Twenty-eighth street at the time of the firing, but was with General Loud at Twenty-sixth street.

A. Except by seeing the crowd running, and hearing the firing, which was of an irregular character—not a volley at all.

Q. Who composed the crowd at that time? Were they railroad employés or stragglers in general, or were there any other persons in the vicinity mixed with the crowd to any extent?

A. There was quite a very large number of lookers on, stationed on the hill side above—men, women, and children, scattered all along, probably for a distance of fifty thousand feet.

A. Probably from a hundred to two hundred and fifty feet above them. And at Twenty-eighth street, and east and west of Twenty-eighth street, and covering all of the tracks before the troops came up, there were many people. All our trains passing—we were running all the accommodation trains east and west—were boarded at Twenty-eighth street by the crowd, who filled them up, and ran through the cars, and piled upon the engines, so as to seriously interfere with the men in the performance of their duties. The crowd, many through curiosity, went upon the trains in such force that it was useless for any of our men to attempt to collect fare. The engines were perfectly black, both in front of the engine and the tank and the platform. A great number of those men got on and would go through the trains to see who was in them, before they would let them proceed.

A. All were stopped at Twenty-eighth street, and the mob went through and examined each and every train for soldiers.

A. Sometimes it was a very serious question. If we had not had some engineers determined that they were going to try to get their trains through, they would have cut the passenger trains off and allowed nothing but mail cars to go.

Q. On the 23d of July, did the sheriff not throw a guard around the burned district?

A. I was stationed then at Blairsville Intersection, and I cannot answer that question of my own knowledge.

Q. Then you do not know whether on or after the 23d day of July the railroad company could or could not have had entire control, if they had seen fit?

A. Most decidedly they could not, simply for the fact that they could not get beyond Lawrenceville station.

A. I don't know. I was not in the city on the 23d of July. But the tracks were all burned between Thirty-third street, or Lawrenceville, and the Union depot.

Pursuant to adjournment, the committee re-assembled at ten o'clock, A.M., this day, and continued the taking of testimony.

Q. State where you reside and what your official connection with the Pennsylvania Railroad Company is?

A. I reside in the Twenty-second ward of Pittsburgh. I am manager of the Pittsburgh transfer station.

Q. State to the committee, in your own way, what the causes were that led to the riot, or what the disagreements were between the Pennsylvania Railroad Company and their employés, and give the history of what you saw.

A. My position was not such that I can speak from personal observation as to the causes. Of course, I understood them to be the ten per cent. reduction, which had taken place on the 1st of June, and after that the increased running of double-headers on freight trains. I understood these to be the causes. My more immediate connection with the trouble commenced on the morning of Thursday, July 19. About nine o'clock that morning my foreman came to me, and informed me that there was difficulty in getting out our east bound freights—that the train men had refused to go out, unless the trains stopped running as double-headers. I went from my office up to the outer depot, and there found that the crews had refused to run. Shortly after that I met Mr. Garrett, the assistant train master, and Mr. McCabe, the general dispatcher, and they informed me that they were going to the transfer station to detail our yard crews to run along the road. I remained there long enough to see one of the crews arrive. They came and attempted to couple a caboose car on one of the engines. A brakeman by the name of Gerry was making the coupling, when he was attacked by a number of train men, and driven away with a shower of stones, and links, and coupling-pins. I saw him struck. A further effort to remove the train was not made. About a quarter before twelve, I walked up to the outer depot again, and just at that moment a car came up with some ten or a dozen policemen. I then met Mr. Watt, and walked with him and the policemen up to Twenty-eighth street. A yard engine was standing on the switch there, and an attempt was made to get it out. Mr. Watt instructed a conductor named Moore to turn the switch, in order to let the engine out. Moore declined to do it, giving as his reason that he had been threatened with violence if he did so. Mr. Watt then made the attempt to turn the switch himself. Just at that moment, a man standing there raised his hand, perhaps with his hat in it, and said: "Come on, boys, we will die right here." Mr. Watt directed an officer to arrest him, and at that moment he was struck, by a man named McCullough, in the eye. The policemen made a rush on McCullough, and, after being interfered with by his friends, he was arrested. Mr. Watt then requested me to go to the telegraph office, and telegraph to Mayor McCarthy for fifty additional policemen. I sent a message, as near as I recollect, in these words: "Please send fifty additional policemen at once," and signed Mr. Watt's name to it. That message went a quarter before one, Philadelphia time. I then returned to Twenty-eighth street, and remained there perhaps two hours, and then returned to my office about three o'clock, and then returned to the outer depot. An additional police force of perhaps five or six men had responded to the call for fifty. A train was made up, two engines were attached to it, and it was ready to move. When the order was given to go ahead, a number of strikers got in front, and signaled it to stop, when it commenced moving. One of the engineers whistled down brakes, and the train stopped. There was some wrangling there, and the engineer of the forward engine, a man named Woodward, got off the engine, and was immediately greeted with cheers by the crowd, and made a hero of. I had an engagement at the house then, and left. I did not return until the next morning. The next morning I found the crowd still at Twenty-eighth street, and the condition of the yard the same as the night before. No trains had been moved. About eleven o'clock, a committee of employés at the transfer station came to the office, and informed us that they intended to strike, unless the ten per cent. was restored. We told them we could only submit their demand to those in authority over us, that we had no function in the matter at all. The committee retired to discuss the matter with their fellow workmen. About twelve o'clock, perhaps a little before, a committee from the strikers—a committee of brakemen, I am told—I was not present at the time—came to the men, and made a speech to them, and told them if they would strike, they would protect them, and guarantee places after the strike was over. A majority of our men then went with this committee that came down in the direction of Twenty-eighth street. I remained on the platform, and saw such of the men as I could, and I found those I talked with were opposed to striking, and ready to go to work; and one by one the men who had gone off with the committee returned, or a number of them. These men said they were led into the thing against their wishes and judgment, and that they were ready to work. Of course, they did not like the reduction, but they must work if they could get it. I told them to leave their names with the foreman, directed him to take them, and told them as soon as they had given their names to return to their homes, and that as soon as we wanted them we would send for them. Our work, of course, had stopped with the stopping of the trains. I remained about the office until four o'clock in the afternoon, and then went to the Union depot. I there met Mr. Pitcairn, and he requested me to remain with him. Shortly after my arrival there, I found that a section of artillery and a portion of the Nineteenth regiment had reported for duty. The Eighteenth regiment, under Colonel Guthrie, I had seen going east on a passenger train, about noon, on the way, I ascertained, to Torrens station. Breck's two guns and the Nineteenth regiment were ready for orders. We started out Liberty street. After we had gone a square or so, we halted, and I heard Senator Scott, and Mr. Thaw, and Mr. Cassatt, and Mr. Pitcairn, and General Pearson in consultation. Certain of these gentlemen deprecated the movement of the troops at that time, thinking that the number was not sufficient to meet the strikers then at Twenty-eighth street, and fearing a precipitation of the conflict. After this consultation, those troops were recalled, and brought on to the platform of the Union depot. A number of us, Mr. Pitcairn, Mr. Cassatt, General Pearson, Mr. Watt, and myself, and, perhaps, others, I do not recollect now, discussed the matter there, and General Pearson said that he would await the arrival of the Fourteenth regiment. When that came, probably about nine o'clock, on Friday the 20th, he proposed moving out the tracks to Twenty-eighth street, and hauling his guns after him. I objected to the movement, and was asked the reasons for my objection. I stated them to be, that I thought that at eight or nine o'clock that night the crowd would be very large, and that the movement would be a mistake. I suggested, instead of that movement, to wait until about three o'clock in the morning, when the crowd would be at a minimum, and then move out Bedford avenue with the Fourteenth regiment, and so give time for the Nineteenth regiment to arrive by the time the ground was cleared by the Fourteenth. Then, if the crowd did not go away, to drive them away, and occupy the hill and crossing, and keep them clear. Then, I thought, we could start the trains. After considerable discussion, that plan was adopted. I remained at the Union depot, and met Adjutant General Latta when he arrived.

A. On the fast line, that came in about twelve o'clock Friday night—may be a few minutes later. General Latta was advised of the proposed movement, and was particular in his inquiries in regard to it. He first hesitated in authorizing it, fearing a precipitation of the conflict. We argued that the probability of a conflict would be avoided by making that movement; that perhaps there would only be a couple of hundred men there and that we could occupy the place without difficulty, and once in control could keep it without further trouble. After the facts were presented, he declined to interfere with General Pearson's arrangement. About two o'clock, the Fourteenth regiment was ordered to return to the city, with the understanding that as soon as they got to a certain point they were to turn and go out Bedford avenue. Before this, however, I was directed to arrange to have two gondola cars to mount the guns on, and to have two engines to push them up. I was to man them and run them up on parallel tracks, with the Nineteenth regiment supporting them. I went to the depot master, and requested him to get the gondolas, and asked him how many engines he had. He replied that he had one yard shifter. I told him to order out two engines for the Pacific express, and told him I had authority from Mr. Pitcairn to give the order. The engines were ordered out, but the mob refused to allow but one to go. The Fourteenth regiment had started out Bedford avenue. After my return, I started out the track, and went up through the ravine there west of Twenty-eighth street, overlooking the location of the mob, then I passed the Pest house and met the Fourteenth regiment on Bedford avenue, and turned them through the ravine east of the Pest house, explaining the topography of the hill to the commanding officer, telling him how to deploy his regiment. We then moved forward in regimental front. We started a few people on the hill, and they ran down the track. Just as we got to the lower bench of the hill the battery and the Nineteenth regiment arrived on the ground. The crossing was occupied and cleared. We then returned to the Union depot to prepare some provision for the troops. About seven o'clock we started out, Mr. Pitcairn, General Pearson, myself, and others. At Twenty-eighth street we halted, and I called General Pearson's attention to the hill, and the general location. We had some consultation about it, and General Pearson admitted that it was a position to be occupied and held. He then went to the other side of the tank of the engine, and directed somebody to hold the hill and allow nobody to go on it, and to keep the crossings clear, and to allow nobody to come on them. We then went on to Torren's station, to Colonel Guthrie's camp. He gave his orders, and he then said he would return to the city and await the arrival of the Philadelphia troops. The first detachment arrived at one o'clock, and the second about half past two o'clock. They were given a lunch there, and at about four o'clock, perhaps a little after, we started out the tracks. Sheriff Fife, with a posse of perhaps twelve or fifteen men, marched ahead of the column some distance, with warrants for the arrest of certain parties who were supposed to be ringleaders, and Mr. Pitcairn and myself accompanied the sheriff to point out these men. When we came opposite the transfer station, I pointed out a couple of avenues leading in from Liberty street, and said it might be well to guard them, and we made a detail to guard that place. The rest of the column then moved on. We saw, directly, that the hill side, instead of being kept clear was covered with people, and also the crossings. The troops marched up with the First regiment—I think the regiment of Colonel Benson—in advance, and on Twenty-eighth street came into line. Colonel Benson then formed two sides of a square, making the north and south sides of the square, and two companies came up in company front and formed the first side of the square, facing east. The Gatling guns took position in the rear of the east side of the square. Before this square had been formed, Mr. Pitcairn and myself went with the sheriff among the crowd, but were unable to find the parties for whom the sheriff held warrants. We had some discussion there with the strikers, and General Pearson, I observed, passed us going up the hill where the Pittsburgh troops seemed to have been formed. After the square had been formed, we gave up our discussion with those people, and Mr. Pitcairn and myself sat down on some plank about the center of the square. General Pearson passed us and made some remarks. I forget his words. He referred to the thing looking serious, that more troops should be had, and said he was going to telegraph General Latta, and left us, starting in the direction of the telegraph office.

A. That was about five o'clock. Mr. Pitcairn and myself were chatting together about the situation, when my attention was called to an attempt made by the company that formed the east side of the square to press the crowd back. They formed with arms across, and tried to push the crowd back, but the mob grasped the muskets of some of them. The troops found they could not make any impression, and then the order was given to charge bayonets.

A. I do not know. I simply heard the order given. The troops came to a charge bayonets on the mob. Then I recollect seeing one man—one of the mob with a musket in one hand draw a pistol with the other, and fire, and I saw a man fall—whether he was dodging only or whether he was struck, I do not know. At the same moment one or two other pistol shots were fired, and then a volley of stones and pieces of clinker came from the hill on the sides of the square. A number of the troops were struck down. Several of them fell within two or three feet of me. Then one or two shots were fired from the muskets, and others followed, and a fusillade was kept up for a couple of minutes. Mr. Pitcairn and myself were still sitting there, and I said to him it would be prudent to lie down. We kept close for a moment or two, and as soon as the crowd broke we walked to the north side of the square, and I told a lieutenant there, who was in command of a company, perhaps, that he had better make a right wheel, and drive some people out who had got behind a gondola car loaded with coal there. I believe he acted on my suggestion. At the first firing the crowd had broken and run in every direction. Mr. Pitcairn and myself then returned to his office. There I found General Pearson, and I judged, by his surprise, that I gave him the first intimation he had of the firing. Shortly after Mr. Cassatt came into the room. A few minutes after a gentleman on General Brinton's staff. I think Colonel Wilson came in. He was directed to tell General Brinton to report. General Brinton reported, and, after some consultation, General Brinton suggested a move into the round-house. I think I objected, but to no avail, because, as he said, the mob was driven away and he could go into the round-house and get shelter for his men and give them some rest, and that he could protect the property of the company in case of an attack just as well from the round-house as from the position he then occupied. I said to Mr. Pitcairn that I thought it was a great mistake—that the hill should be occupied; but General Brinton and General Pearson, of course, were the military officers who were in charge of the situation, and for the time the railroad officers had relinquished all control. We remained there some time, and the question of supplies came up—of provision for those men—and Mr. Pitcairn, Mr. Watt, Mr. Cassatt, and myself got on an engine and went to the Union depot, and gave orders for provisions. Those provisions were loaded up and started to the outer depot, and I afterwards understood were captured by the mob. We remained at the Union depot that evening. About ten o'clock a person came and told me I had better leave. I asked for his reason, and he said that the mob were then at Saint Fulvia's church, at Fourteenth and Liberty streets, on their way to the Union depot, and said they were going to hang Mr. Cassatt, Mr. Pitcairn, Mr. Watt, and me. I did not place much reliance on the report, but it was afterwards verified that the mob was there and moving down in that direction. The other three gentlemen went away. I was in a different part of the hotel at the time, and remained there some time, but several friends came to me and urged me to leave. I went out through the front door of the depot, and when I got near the elevator, true enough the mob did come, but I do not know what for. I then got into a carriage and drove to my house.

A. About a quarter after ten o'clock on Saturday night. I locate the time from the fact that after I got to my home, I threw myself on the bed, and my wife came to me and said the fire alarm was striking from box sixty-four. I said it was the outer depot, and it would be a big fire in a few minutes, but I did not want to be disturbed. I looked at my watch, and it was a quarter to eleven. Shortly afterward I was again awakened to come and look at the fire. I saw at once that it was the oil cars. I slept a few minutes, and then went to the stock yards. At Torrens station I met Colonel Guthrie, and there we chatted a while, and then I returned to the city. Probably about seven or eight o'clock, I am not sure about the hour, in walking up the track, I met some of our clerks, and they told me that my office was on fire, and that everything was burned, and there was no use to go up. I went up far enough to see the fire there, which was then extending, and I went then to the west end of the Union depot in the endeavor to get a few men together to throw some cars off the track to block it. I feared they would set fire to cars, and run them down the track to burn the depot. I got a number of men together and left them in charge of it. They succeeded afterwards in throwing some cars off, and blocking all the tracks but two. The reason of my leaving was, that I recollected that the night before, Saturday night, I had been requested by General Latta to remove a lot of ammunition which had been stored in the store-room at the east end of the Union depot—some twenty or thirty thousand rounds, perhaps more. I had gone there the evening before with a few gentlemen, and loaded this ammunition up on baggage hoppers, and stored it away in the cellar. I thought of the ammunition, and knew it was important to be saved. I left the parties at the cars and went to General Latta, and asked if any arrangement had been made to get the ammunition out. He said, "yes," that he had requested Captain Breck to attend to it, and that he was then at it, but he asked me to go and see if I could render him any assistance. I went to Captain Breck, and found he was making some effort in that direction. I offered him my services, but he said that he had all the assistance that he required, except that he had no wagon. I then went to a livery stable right opposite the depot and got a large express wagon and had it brought over, and Captain Breck said he had ample assistance to load the ammunition up and get it out. Shortly after I went to the Monongahela house, to which General Latta's head-quarter's had been removed.

A. It arrived with the troops that came on Saturday afternoon. It remained in the store-room, into which they put it first, until nine o'clock Saturday night, when those gentlemen and myself loaded it up and took it down into the cellar of the hotel. I went to the Monongahela house. I was anxious to see Mr. Cassatt and Mr. Pitcairn. I found Mr. Cassatt there. Previous to this, information had been received of General Brinton's retiring—that he had gone east, and then we heard he was in the Allegheny cemetery. The question of provisions was uppermost in the mind of everybody for those men, and orders were sent to Allegheny for the different bakers to prepare sandwiches, and get all the provisions ready they could. Mr. Scott, the stock agent at East Liberty, came to the hotel about noon, and said that Colonel Guthrie was anxious about ammunition—that he had but little, and had divided what he had with the Philadelphia troops stopped at Wall's station. I wrote out an order on Captain Breck to give to Mr. Scott what ammunition he wanted, and took it to General Latta, who signed it. I knew Colonel Guthrie's position in regard to ammunition, and in about a quarter of an hour I followed Mr. Scott to the Union depot. I found him, and he said that the party with whom he had come in the buggy to get this ammunition had become demoralized and left, at any rate he could not get the ammunition. I think that was the reason he gave. I walked through the depot, and went to the place where the ammunition was stored, and I found it all remaining there; none of it was removed. I walked on the platform, and found the upper end on fire. I came down and walked through the lower part of the depot, and then up stairs through the hotel. I saw very few people—scarcely anybody. I then returned through the crowd, who were dragging every sort of property away from the robbed cars—got through them, and returned to the Monongahela house. General Latta then expressed an anxiety to form a junction between those troops at Wall's station and General Brinton's command, since ascertained to be in the vicinity of Sharpsburg, and expressed an additional anxiety in regard to the question of provisions. After consultation, I volunteered to do what I could to effect a junction between the two commands. Colonel Guthrie had returned from Torrens station, in citizens dress, to consult with General Latta, as he was unable to make any communication with him because the wires were burned. It was decided that I should take a buggy and communicate between those two detachments, and make what effort I could to get provisions. Mr. Cassatt was to take the north side of the river with a provision wagon, and get through the best he could, and I was to take the south side of the river and get through the best I could. I was to remain at General Brinton's camp until I heard from Mr. Cassatt. An order was also given to Colonel Guthrie to bring his regiment from Torrens station into the city. They thought, perhaps, that that regiment could stop the further burning. That regiment had remained solid and intact through the whole trouble.

A. About three o'clock on Sunday afternoon. I drove, then, first out to Torrens, and left Major Sellers there, and returned to my house, and changed my clothes, and then started for General Brinton's camp. I went across the Sharpsburg bridge, and then returned and took the river road. Being unacquainted with the location of General Brinton's command, I stopped at a hotel on the road, and endeavored to make some inquiries. I was not interfered with. In consequence of some replies I got, I went on to Aetna, and there ascertained the exact locality of General Brinton, and met Mr. Campbell Herron, of the firm of Spang, Chalfant, & Co., of the large works there. I explained to him the state of the troops in regard to food, and asked if he could help me. He sent for his manager, and directed that everything in the company's store should be turned over to my order. I arranged with the manager that provisions should be loaded up as soon as it was dark, and hauled out to the camp. I then went on to Claremont, and found General Brinton in camp at that point. I told General Brinton that I had orders from General Latta to effect a junction, if possible, between his command and the detachment of his division at Wall's station, under the command of Colonel Rogers. After talking the matter over, we concluded we had best bring them across from Walls, by the way of the Fairview ferry. General Brinton was to take a detachment at daylight to the ferry, and seize the boat, and hold it until we appeared on the opposite bank. I waited there, awaiting word from Mr. Cassatt. At ten o'clock a citizen of Allegheny came from Walls with word for me from Mr. Cassatt. I then started for Walls Station, distant some eighteen miles from that point. I returned by way of Sharpsburg bridge. I lost my way and got in Barren valley, but finally got on the right road again, and reached Walls station about two o'clock in the morning. I found some men there, and supposed it was a picket post of the troops, but found instead it was some men there, who, I suppose, were railroad men or miners. After some parleying with them, they permitted me to go to the house of one of the passenger conductors of the road, and from him I ascertained that the troops had gone to Blairsville. While talking to them, this party had taken my horse and buggy, but after some difficulty I got it back again, and returned to Claremont, and got there about six and a half o'clock, in the morning. I then found that the First brigade of General Brinton's division was loaded on cars, and was just then pulling out on the way to Blairsville. They had been instructed during my absence to report there. I remained until they were all loaded up, and then returned to my home, changed my clothes, and returned to the city. On my arrival at home, I was told that my neighbors had held a meeting, and had organized a vigilance committee, and placed me in command, and I spent the day in obtaining arms and ammunition for the committee. I remained on duty with that committee for the next week, patrolling the streets—twenty miles of streets. On Friday morning or Saturday, about sun rise, I was on the picket post at Torrens station, and there met Governor Hartranft and the troops returning to Pittsburgh. I remained on duty with my patrol. The next Sunday morning I was sent for by Mr. Pitcairn. He told me that he expected to commence moving trains that day, and wanted me to get ready. I got a force of clerks together, and we commenced starting trains, and in a few weeks things resumed there normal condition.

Q. Did you endeavour to ascertain whether the outbreak on Thursday was the result of a pre-arranged plan among the railroad employés or not?

A. I made no effort to ascertain that. From observation, I think there was a plan in course of arrangement, but I think the execution of it was premature on their part. I believe they did not strike here intentionally, but that it was precipitated by the crews that first refused to go that morning.

A. I know from newspaper reports, and from rumors among the employés, that they were organizing a union of some description, to oppose this reduction. I simply have it from general rumor—from report.

Q. Have you ever succeeded in getting anything from the employés themselves—any statement from them that would lead you to that conclusion?

A. Nothing that I can re-call. I have heard them talking among themselves, saying that they would be organized by and by—some passing remark of that description, but nothing very tangible.

A. My impression is that it was started with the reduction in pay—the order for it. The order for double-headers affected only the Pennsylvania railroad, but, that for the reduction in pay was general—affecting all the roads.

Q. Have you succeeded in gathering any facts from the men, or from any reliable source, to show whether or not there was any understanding among the men on Thursday morning, in relation to a general strike?

A. I have not, but from my observation, I should think the thing was not understood at all. It was started by one crew and the others gradually came in.

A. I cannot now. It is a matter of record in this court-house. I think they were bench warrants.

Q. What reply did the mayor make to the telegram that was sent calling for fifty more policemen?

A. I do not know of a reply of any description. If there had been any reply made it would have come to Mr. Watts. I signed his name.

Q. Explain to us the condition of the crowd at three o'clock on Sunday afternoon, when the orders were given to form this junction between Brinton's men and Colonel Roger's men—the crowd about the depot, and from that point out to Lawrenceville?

A. I went out on this side of the city. I did not pass up the railroad. At the Union depot, when I was there, there was a crowd of half drunken men and women dragging and hauling away every sort of plunder they could lay their hands on. I saw nobody that claims respectability among the crowd committing any depredation. Of course there were some lookers on.

Q. Was the riot still progressing—was the plundering and burning still going on?

A. It was at its heights. The fire was then at the east end of the shed, at the Union depot, and by the time I crossed the Ewalt street bridge I looked back and saw the elevator in flames. After that it burned all the way down to Seventh avenue. They were still burning and destroying property and carrying things away.

A. For instance, I saw a woman dragging a sack of salt, another woman a bag of flour in a wheelbarrow, and a great many others carrying leaf tobacco, and some rolling tierces of lard—railroad goods in general—the products of the west going east.

Q. Can you tell us whether, at that time, there was any reason to apprehend further destruction of property, not only of the railroad company, but of the city itself?

A. There were certainly such reasons. It looked then as if half the city would be burned.

Q. State whether or not you recognized any of the train men among the crowd assembled at Twenty-eighth street?

Q. On Saturday, I refer to particularly, but at any time during the progress of the riot?

A. I know of but one man thus far that I have been able to recognize, and I know their faces. For instance, I can generally tell an employé of the road here—in a great many cases. But I do not know them all by name. There are one or two now under indictment that I have not seen since the riot. I expect to recognize one when I am called on to give my testimony.

Q. Do you know of any requisition being made on the mayor of Pittsburgh or the sheriff of the county for a force to protect the company's property prior to the arrival of the military, and if so, did either of them respond to the call made?

A. The only requisition that I know of, to my personal knowledge, was the telegram that I sent myself, that I spoke of before, in which I requested the mayor, in Mr. Watt's name, to send fifty additional policemen at once. From the number of policemen we had that afternoon, I should judge that perhaps eight or ten came. I know of no other requisition of my own knowledge.

Q. You know of no requisition being made on the sheriff, of your own personal knowledge?

Q. How large was the vigilance committee that was organized—that you were at the head of?

A. There were a number of them. Mine was only one of the number. I had, I should judge, over a hundred men immediately under my command. Some were armed with their own arms.

A. The first meeting was held on Sunday evening. I was absent, but I was informed the following morning that they had held a meeting, and we were under arms that day.

A. Yes. One was formed on my right and another on my left, in the East End, and I am told there were others in the city.

Q. Was it a railroad employé or was it railroad employés, or a citizen or citizens that advised you and Mr. Pitcairn to leave the city?

A. I do not know who advised Mr. Pitcairn. The advice was given to me by myself. I was not with Mr. Pitcairn at the time. To my recollection, I think the notice was given to me by Mr. Elder, the night depot master.

A. Yes. Various of my friends and citizens generally, advised me to leave afterwards.

A. Yes. I had notice sent to my house that I had better leave the city. They said they were going to burn the house.

Q. Was the intimation that Mr. Pitcairn's life was in danger along with the rest?

Q. It was said that they would very likely take your life if you did not go away?

A. I think I do; but I am not prepared to say. One of the men, I think, is still in the criminal court.

Q. You stated that General Pearson gave orders to keep the hill clear, and to let no one on the tracks. At that time was any one besides the military on the hill side?

A. Nobody except the military—not more than half a dozen. Probably the people living up there were passing up and down; but there was no crowd congregated there at all. I am unable to say to whom the order was given. He was on one side of the tank, and I was on the other. I presume it was some officer in charge; but who it was I cannot say.

Q. The object of the order was to keep the mob of people from congregating on the hill side?

Q. What was the name of the person to whom the order was given to move the ammunition.

A. I think it could. He may have had reasons or difficulties that I know nothing about. He was on the ground all the time, and had a better opportunity of judging than I had.

Q. What troops were on the hill when General Pearson gave the orders to keep the hillside clear?

A. I am not positive about that, but I think the Fourteenth regiment was on the hill, and the Nineteenth regiment on the track, and the battery was on the flat just above the track.

Q. State whether you are connected with the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, and if so, in what capacity?

Q. You may go on and give a statement of what occurred, beginning with Thursday morning?

A. On the morning of the 19th of July I was in the western part of the yard. I saw that the train did not move at the proper time, and went to the middle of the yard, at Twenty-sixth street, to ascertain why it did not go. The yard dispatcher there and assistant train master told me that some of the men had refused to go out. I and Mr. Hunter, then yard dispatcher, went to the men and asked them if they would go out, and all that we would go to, said they would not go out on the double-headers.

A. Yes; except the first train. The conductor was willing to go out, but not the crew.

A. Yes; they refused to go, and I went then to get up the yard crews to put on, and brakemen to go in the place of conductors. I got an engine out. We were just going to make a coupling. I had got two crews and brought them up, and I had told a brakeman named W. S. Gerry to couple the engine. He made an effort to do so, and while doing so, they threw at him with pins and links and stones. One of the pins struck him on the side, and he had to run for his life to the Philadelphia fast passenger train, which was standing on the track where he was, and he jumped on it. Had it not been for that they would have been very apt to have caught him.

A. Some of them I don't know the names of. Some are up in court, and they are now trying them. One of them is "over the river."

A. One was Andrew Hice; another Alonzo Milliner, and several more of them. I can't just remember their names now.

A. The next thing, I went to Twenty-eighth street with Mr. Watt, and tried to get engine seven hundred and eighty-five out—Conductor S. K. Moore.

A. Pretty close to twelve o'clock. I told him to bring his engine out, and he told me that they would not allow him to turn the switch.

A. He said all of them—the crowd. They would not let him turn the switch. Mr. Watt said he would turn it. While he was stooping to turn it, one of them struck him. They arrested him, and after they arrested him I turned the switch and brought the engine out on the track and down the yard, and coupled her to sixteen cars, and sent her to Wilkinsburg with them.

A. Yes; it was Twenty-sixth street, and they went to Twenty-eighth street. The second engine was at Twenty-eighth street. It was the same crowd.

A. I cannot say. Afterwards I went to the west end of the yard with another engine. I had the dispatcher at the west end to get sixteen cars on another track, and I went there with another engine at about the time the Atlantic express should leave the depot. We got that train out, and that was the last.

A. It left Seventeenth street about one-five. I got to Twenty-eighth street before I ought to. The engineers left their engines there at Twenty-sixth street after we had got the trains ready to go. The mob got in front, and the first engineer blew down brakes, and got off. Then the second engineer did the same. The assistant engineer came to me and asked what he was going to do. I said I didn't know. He said he would run that engine if anybody else would. The road foreman came up, and I told him what Mr. Phillips had said, and he got on one engine and Phillips got on another. Then some person hallooed: "If you move that engine we will blow your brains out." Then they did not start. They all went out. There were about sixteen policemen there, but they could not apparently do anything with them.

A. We got the train ready to start, and five or six of them got on one engine and the same on the other, and the balance of them got on the train. At Twenty-eighth street they arrested McCullough.

A. The balance of the day the men could not do anything. The crowd appeared to increase all the time.

Q. Did you have any conversation with those men that refused to go at first to ascertain their reasons for their refusal?

A. I asked what their reason was for not going, and they allowed that they would not run on double-headers.

Q. Had you any knowledge before Thursday morning that such a refusal would be made?

A. No; I didn't have the slightest idea until I went up that morning from the west end of the yard.

Q. Did you talk with the men to find out whether there was any prearranged plan to strike that morning?

A. I did not ask them anything about it. They might have had an idea of striking, but I don't think the time was set. That being the morning that the double-headers was to go out, they picked on that morning very suddenly.

A. I don't remember the date. I think it must have been a few days before that, but I can't say how many.

Q. Had you heard anything said by the men about the order prior to that morning?

Q. Relate to us what occurred. Had double-headers been run before that day on the road?

A. Yes; the Union and National lines were double-headers, and our coal trains were double-headers. Some trains, such as coal trains between Derry—they were running them double for a number of years.

Q. That morning, the order to run double-headers on all freight trains went into effect?

A. I don't know whether they intended to discharge them or suspend them temporarily.

Q. Were any of those men who were suspended or not retained in the employ of the company among that crowd of twenty that you spoke of?

Q. That crowd of twenty was composed of men retained in the employ of the company?

Q. How are those men paid—the brakemen and conductors—by the hour, or the day, or the month?

A. In the yard a day of twelve hours constitutes a day—eleven hours—they get paid extra for the meal hour.

A. In the yard. I simply sent a message again, telling them to await at Rochester, and to send an escort of men down the road to receive me.

A. To Colonel Carpenter, at Rochester. I expected he would be at Rochester. He was the commanding officer of the troops. When I got to Rochester, I went up and found he had not arrived—that the division had not arrived. I immediately telegraphed for it to move immediately down. I found it was at Greenville, and I gave the direction again to the officer in charge, not specifying any person in particular. In about an hour, after several attempts to get messages or several attempts to get answers, I went again for an answer, and after the instrument fluttering for half a minute, and all communication being suspended for half an hour, I got a message saying that the troops were at dinner, and would move immediately after dinner.

A. Twelve o'clock, on Sunday. In the meantime, I had communication with General Latta. He told me to address him again at Union Depot hotel, and in the next communication to address him at the Monongahela house. Up to three o'clock he remained, I believe, at Union Depot hotel. All the communications I had from him were at the Union Depot hotel. Hearing that the Philadelphia troops had left the round-house and left the city, and fearing for my own ammunition, which the mob around me threatened to burn——

A. Yes; but which I afterwards saved by going out and stating in a loud voice, that I had thrown it all in the river half an hour ago. I concluded to let the division remain at Greenville, and ordered it to remain there.

A. I forget whether it was addressed to Colonel Carpenter or not. I think it was to the officer in command of the troops there.

A. Yes; delivered by the agent there. Then I telegraphed to General Latta, that I was going to Greenville. At three o'clock I started for Greenville, but didn't reach there until ten o'clock the next morning, having to go to Ohio. I went to the troops, but I didn't have any communications from General Latta, and fearing that my ammunition would be entirely destroyed at Rochester, I thought it best to try to form the division at some other point, and so I ordered them home. Then I started to meet the Governor, knowing he was coming from Chicago, but not meeting him, I returned immediately to Greenville, and ordered Colonel Carpenter to re-assemble the whole division at Franklin, and by Friday night I had everybody and everything in camp, and in so fair a way, that I was confident I could handle them, and ordered a movement for Saturday morning to Pittsburgh, which no person knew. I had received a communication from the Governor on Saturday night, to know when I would move, which I answered, that he might expect me shortly, at any time. After starting at Franklin, on the way, I received a dispatch from him or from General Latta, who I don't remember, saying he didn't think it was safe for me to come to Pittsburgh with the small amount of ammunition I had. I answered back, I was on the way, and unless I received peremptory orders, I would be in Pittsburgh that night. I came there Saturday night; as soon as I came, the Governor came down—it was raining fearfully—and said he wanted me to open the road on Monday, and for me to select what troops I wanted to use, and that night or the next morning, I selected Colonel Carpenter's regiment for the work, and the Governor sent for me, and said he wanted all the stock trains moved out that day. The stock trains were moved out on Sunday, and the freight trains on Monday, without particular opposition.

Q. Will you give us the time when Colonel Carpenter's regiment reached Greenville?

A. All the regiment didn't reach Greenville. Some of the companies kept back in Meadville. Having only one train, one engine, and one engineer under our control, the officers decided very wisely, as I should have done, to remain there until the division should be concentrated, and then move down together. The whole division was not concentrated at Greenville. There was a company from Ridgway, one from Corry, one company from Union, two companies from Meadville, and there was one company from Clarion county, which was not ordered out, because it was so far away at the time.

Q. The order you sent for Colonel Carpenter to go to Rochester—do you know whether he received that order or not?

A. I didn't send it directly to Colonel Carpenter, for at no time was I certain Colonel Carpenter was there; but to the officer in charge of the troops. I was not certain my adjutant general was there.

Q. The North East company, and the Erie company, and the Conneautville company were at Greenville?

A. If I remember right, the North East company, under Captain Orton; Captains Riddle and Curtiss's company, of Erie; Captain Rupert, of Conneautville; Captain Kreps, of Greenville; Captain Fruit, of Jefferson; Captain Dight, of Pine Grove; and Captain Wright, of Mercer—eight or nine companies.

A. They probably got there Sunday morning—possibly some of them Saturday night.

Q. Did Colonel Carpenter, who was in command there, receive your orders to move to Rochester?

A. He received the orders to move to Rochester, because he replied that the men were at dinner, and that as soon as dinner was over they would move.

A. No; I don't think I sent him direct orders before that. The orders I sent before were from Chicago to Colonel Clarke to move the division to Rochester.

Q. Then it was three or four o'clock on Sunday afternoon when you sent the order to him to form?

A. I did. Captain Riddle wanted to move down right away with all the men they had, but some of the rest didn't want to go, and Colonel Carpenter said to me that he had got into somewhat of a trouble about moving, and asked if I approved of his action, and I said perfectly—I didn't expect the division to move until it was in shape to take care of itself, and I entirely approve of your course. I went to Riddle, and called him to one side, and said this thing has gone further than I expected, and I don't want any more trouble. I didn't want the division to move down without being strong enough, although we had men enough I am confident, if we had ammunition, to wipe the whole city of Pittsburgh right out.

Q. Would it have been proper for him, with the nine companies he had, in case they were there early on Sunday morning, at Greenville—would it have been proper for him, as a military officer, to have gone on with them to Rochester?

A. No. If the division had got into a fight, he would have been the officer to handle the division, if I was not present. He never got the orders from me until I ordered him at twelve o'clock, and then I had reason to believe he was going to move immediately. The troops had been in Greenville for a day, and they were scattered around, and visiting in saloons and hotels. The men had to support themselves the best they could, and they could not keep them together, even by companies.

Q. In case they are delayed on the trip, are the men not paid extra for the time they are delayed?

A. Generally, when they are delayed any ways long, the conductor refers his case to the train master, and if he approves of it, they get paid extra.

Q. Did the men retained in the employ of the company and the discharged men have any communication with each other on the morning of Thursday, that you know of?

Q. Do you know whether those twenty men assembled there were members of that organization or not?

Q. Were there any double-headers that succeeded in starting that morning of Thursday?

Q. Can you tell us whether between the hour of twelve, midnight, and eight-forty, any double-headers left on Thursday morning.

A. Some of them were there all night stopping everything, so that we could not get along. The engines would stop.

A. The western engines coming up with the live stock were stopped and sent back on the same track.

Q. Was the crowd on Friday morning composed of the same men as on Thursday—were the same men leading the crowd?

A. I cannot say whether they were leading it or not; the crowd was so big they were all mixed up through it.

A. I don't remember that I did. Some of the leaders of the crowd there on Thursday night had gone to Lawrenceville on Friday.

Q. Did you have any conversation with the train men on Friday about starting the trains.

A. We had a yard crew still there and two or three crews already to go out, provided they would let them go.

Q. Were you able to take any trains out on Friday, or if not, what hindered them from going out?

A. No; on account of the crowd at Twenty-eighth street making threats to the men—what they would do.

Q. State the condition of the crowd during the day, whether it was increasing or not, and whether it was demonstrative and boisterous or not?

A. They allowed them to go. Some of them were stopped, but they let them pass afterwards.

A. Some of them would halloo and make threats, and others would get up and spring on the engines, and the engineers would have to stop to see what was the matter.

Q. Did they attempt any violence on the men running the trains during the day of Friday by throwing stones or clubs?

A. I don't know whether they did outside of Pittsburgh or not. We didn't move anything on Friday except live stock. They agreed that we might move that, but nothing else.

A. Yes; on Friday. First in the morning—then they stopped it. Then Mr. Garrett, the train master, and me went up and saw them, and he talked to them. There was a big run of stock coming off the Fort Wayne road, and some of them said they would let him have one engine to haul it. He said that they ought to know better, that one engine was not sufficient, and they agreed to let him have two. So we got engines enough to move the stock to East Liberty.

Q. They said you could have one engine. Who was it that told this to Mr. Garrett?

Q. Men then in the employ of the company, or who had been up to the morning of Thursday?

A. One of them was the spokesmen. We asked for the spokesman when we went there.

A. Yes; they were sent right back on going out the track, and sent in again on coming out the track.

A. Early in the morning there was not such a very large crowd, but towards evening, just before the soldiers came up——

A. About seven o'clock—that is outside of the soldiers. The Fourteenth and Eighteenth regiments were there then, I believe. In the evening along about five o'clock, at the time the firing began, in the neighborhood of the railroad, and in the streets there were from five to seven thousand people.

Q. When you refer to the crowd of five thousand, do you mean to say that all of that crowd were riotous or engaged in riotous conduct?

Q. Was there any division or separation between the rioters and the crowd that was looking on?

A. I guess they were scattered through the crowd everywhere around the railroad.

Q. Down on the railroad were any persons looking on—were they along the railroad track, or were they back on the hill?

A. They were standing on the hill and on the railroad track, too. Some of them might be railroad men of other roads, and I never know it.

A. I would say that some of them were pretty boisterous. Some of them would be about half tight, and were raising a little excitement here and among themselves.

Q. When did the crowd begin to get demonstrative or boisterous, at what time in the day?

A. Along about twelve o'clock probably, and about five it got worse. The work shops and all the mills, as a general thing, shut down about three o'clock on Saturday. I suppose that helped to increase the crowd.

Q. Were you present at Twenty-eighth street when the firing of the soldiers took place?

A. I was between Twenty-sixth and Twenty-eighth streets when they began to shoot—about half way.

A. No; I was not near enough to hear, but I saw one or two missiles thrown from the hillside and the shooting began after that.

A. I cannot say that; they came from the thick part of the crowd on the hillside.

A. I cannot tell whether they came from the hill or from the soldiers. There were some scattering shots, and then a kind of general volley.

A. They scattered in all directions—some went north, south, east, and west—in every direction—the best way they could get out.

A. Near down to Twenty-eighth street—that is about the only place that was obstructed.

A. Sunday morning when I came in everything was on fire—was burning—seven and a half o'clock.

A. What we call the south yard—the tracks south of the main track between Lawrenceville and Twenty-eighth street—they were burning, and they were burning the upper round-house then. I was along on the hill side, within sight of the track, from seven and a half that morning until eight o'clock that night.

A. They had left there then, and went into the work-house, I believe. They left the round-house between five and six o'clock in the morning.

Q. What took place during the day of Sunday—how large was the crowd Sunday morning?

A. There were these right in the yard—there appeared to be somewhere in the neighborhood of a thousand people. I cannot tell whether they all belonged to the crowd or not. They appeared to be following after it—breaking the cars open and taking out what they wanted, and then setting fire to them.

Q. From their appearance could you form any idea as to whether they were railroad men or not?

A. Yes. Wherever there was a gap they would carry the fire over the gap to the next place.

A. I was a hundred feet or so from them. I heard that detectives were there. Some of them told me, in fact, that they understood detectives were among them watching them.

Pursuant to adjournment, the committee re-assembled at three, P.M., this day, and continued the taking of testimony.

A. I cannot state the precise date when I entered the service of the company; but I judge it is between eight and ten years.

A. I cannot tell the length of time precisely, but I was running them from the time they started—that is, from the time they started to run through freight as double.

Q. Were you at the depot or about the depot on the morning of the 19th—Thursday morning?

A. We made every preparation to start, with the exception of coupling up the train. I examined the train as I was going into the yard. I thought the men were rather long in getting the engine out. I started up, and on going to the train men's room met two of my brakemen, and asked the cause of the delay. They told me they didn't intend to go out. I asked the reason. They said they had either quit or struck—I don't recollect. I asked what their object was in striking. They said they didn't intend to run on double-headers—that they were not making any more than a living at that time, and that by running double-headers, it would cause some of them to be dismissed or suspended. That they didn't know who it would be, and as they had the advantage at that time, they would make the best use of it they could.

A. One was named John Vensel and the other I cannot give his first name. In giving in his time, I always gave it as M. Martin.

A. I tried to advise them not to strike, and showed them the folly of it. I told them that the times were hard at present and that freight was very slack, and that the company was trying to economize and that their chances were just as good as mine. I advised them to stay. They claimed "no," that they had determined to quit, and were going to do it or had done it. I notified the dispatcher then that the men had quit, and asked what I was to do. He told me to remain, and that he would provide men for me. He went around and made an effort to get men but could not get them. I then asked permission to go to dinner, and I went, and came back about twelve or one. There was no change in the affair at all, everything remained just as it had been.

A. No; they remained in the yard up to the time I left, and I saw them there in the afternoon.

A. He thought as the rest did, that now was the time to strike or quit, and that they all had concluded to do it, and that all my conversation with him would not change his ideas a particle.

Q. Did you talk with those men to find out whether they had arranged for this strike previously?

A. I did not. I blamed them for it, but they denied it. Whether they had made an arrangement or not for that day, I don't know.

A. Two or three of them I think denied it. They had made an arrangement previous to this to strike, but from some cause or other it was not carried into effect, and my being a non-union man, I concluded that they had arranged it in such a way that the responsibility would fall on me, and in case it would be a failure I would be the man discharged, and that the union men would not suffer. That was the opinion I formed that morning.

A. I do not know. When a railroad man came to me, and requested me to join them, I told them I could not do it; that my opinion was different from theirs with reference to strikes; that I did not feel justified in doing it. He asked me if I had any injury. I told him I could not say. He said: "I am going to strike to-morrow." I went as far as Derry, and laid over two or three hours. The only person there I saw by himself was the dispatcher. I went to him and told him in confidence that these men were going to strike.

A. Yes. I told the dispatcher that these men had come to the conclusion to strike, and told him I wanted to let it be known—that two thirds of them were not friends of mine, and it would only cause me trouble by their going out, and I would notify the proper officers in time to give them a chance to prevent in case it should occur. I returned to the city that morning with the train. Coming in, I wondered how to get at the superintendent's office without being seen. I did not care about being known, and after putting the train away, I concluded I would go out on the accommodation, but I met one of my men, and I got into conversation with him, and I asked him if he knew anything about it. He said he did, and he said it had fallen through. I asked him if he was positive of it, he said he was—that he knew it had. I told him I was very glad to hear it. Says he, I am not. I concluded then not to go out. I made inquiries among other men, and found it to be the fact, that they had concluded not to strike at the time appointed.

Q. Did you hear any other conversation or learn anything of any other union or organization to strike from that morning until the 19th?

Q. Had you any knowledge that your men would not go out until you met them—those two men?

Q. How long before that morning was it known to the men that the order had been issued to run double-headers?

A. It was known in six hours, I should judge, to all the men on the line after the order was posted on the bulletin boards.

A. I cannot give the date, but fancy it was posted twenty-four hours before the order should have gone into effect.

A. Not more so than at other times. There was general dissatisfaction among the men on account of the double trains. Of course it increased it somewhat. There were several trains running before this order was issued, but when this order would go into effect it would make all trains double, and this would cause them to feel more dissatisfied.

Q. After you returned from your dinner on Friday, how large a crowd did you find in the yard?

A. I cannot say that, but the greater portion of them at that time were railroad employés. The crowd gradually increased until evening.

Q. Did you have any conversation with the men after you returned from your dinner?

A. I spoke to them, and asked them who had organized it, and what they were going to do about it. They said they did not know, that they had quit because the rest had, and intended to see it through.

A. It would be a very difficult matter for me to say. In fact they all seemed to lead—where one would go, the rest would follow.

A. In the beginning there was one man that seemed to take the lead—on the morning of Thursday, but after that I lost all trace of him.

A. His name was Hice. I was in the telegraph office on Thursday morning, after the strike occurred, talking to the train runner. He came up, after the conversation with me, and I saw him in the act of trying to couple an engine on to some caboose cars. They failed to do so on account of the throwing of stones and other missiles.

A. I fancy some fifteen or eighteen men that I saw there, but might have been more.

A. That I cannot say. I was not close enough to see whether my men were among them or not.

Q. On Friday afternoon, when the attempt was made to start the train, will you tell us what occurred then?

A. As near as I can recollect, the train was made up, and it was pulled up out of the freight yard. I don't know whether the caboose car was coupled or not. I cannot recollect, but I saw the train start as though it was going to go out. I saw men run in front of the engines to stop them, and I saw the parties get off of them, and the train then was backed into the yard after that.

A. I cannot say whether it was Thursday afternoon or Friday, but it was one of those two days. It seems to me it was Thursday afternoon—the same day.

Q. When the resistance was made there, was it a combined resistance of all the men, or did only two or three seem to be leading the others?

A. Not directly. Two or three men came to me, and asked me if I was going out. I told them yes, if I could get a crew, and one of them intimated to me that I had better not go, or words to that effect—that they did not want to hurt me, or something like that. That was about all.

A. I think mine was the only one at that time, with the exception of the single train going on the branch.

A. The next, I believe, would have been eleven o'clock—no; the next would have been nine-forty.

Q. Do you know whether the conductors of those trains were all prepared to start them or not?

A. That I do not know. One of them came to me and ask if I was going out, and I told him yes, if I could get a crew. He turned around and walked away, and did not say anything more to me about it.

Q. You said that two or three men came and asked you if you were going out, and you said yes, if you could get a crew, and that then they intimated it would be well for you if you did not. Who were these men?

Q. Did you have any fear of violence from the employés of the road if you started out?

A. Well, I had a fear, but no serious fear. I did not think that they would kill me.

A. Yes, sir; I am running a passenger engine—the "accommodation"—as engineer.

A. I suppose it was half-past nine when one of the men told me. It was an engineer that told me.

A. I remained in there until eleven o'clock, when I backed out, and came down and took out the train.

A. I had no conversation, no more than a man stopped me at Twenty-eighth street, and asked me what I was hauling.

A. I was going out on the last trip, at eleven-forty. I told him I was hauling an accommodation train. He told me I could go on, and he got down off the engine.

A. No; they were all standing there, and when I came up—we all have to stop there—he got on the engine.

A. No; nothing more. He said it was all right, that I could go on, after I told him what I was hauling.

Q. What was the manner of the crowd at that time as to their being boisterous or demonstrative?

A. Indeed, I could not tell you. We just stop for a couple of minutes, and sometimes not that long.

Q. You had no conversation with any other excepting the one who got on your engine?

A. That is all. He was discharged off this road a couple of times, and off the Pan-Handle, I believe.

Q. Did you learn that day, or any time after that, when these parties resolved to strike?

A. That I cannot tell you. I never was in any of their meetings, and know nothing about it.

A. I did not go out at eleven-forty, because I could not get out at eleven-forty.

Q. Had the work commenced then, by the company, in clearing off the tracks—the debris?

A. From Thirty-third street. It was as far as we could get. I went to work on Tuesday after the Sunday of the fire.

Q. Were you there when any of the demonstrations were made by the crowd in firing or throwing stones?

A. I saw the interfering on Thursday with the Union Line that they were trying to take out.

Q. Was there any violence or assaulting of the engineer, or any train men of that train?

Q. Couldn't you guess from their appearance what their trades or occupations were?

Q. Did they get on and off the engine as if they were men used to being around the cars?

A. No; some of them would get off and fall, and some of them would get off pretty good.

A. The first trip in the morning we leave Wilkensburg at six-fifty-four, and get there at night at ten-fifteen.

A. When I came as far as Twenty-eighth street with the twelve-five train—coming in on that trip—with the train due at the depot at that time. I then heard of it. I had heard remarks of a strike, but heard nothing definite until I came in on that trip.

A. I saw men standing around there on Friday, I did not see anything at all, except seeing men standing around.

A. Not on Friday. I did not see anything unusual on Friday. No; I was not molested on Thursday in any shape, but on Friday they were around by hundreds. Parties that I did not know where they came from, and we could not do anything with them. They would get on the trains, and we could not do anything with them. They did pretty much as they pleased, and I saw that we had better keep quiet. They were riding between Twenty-eighth street and Lawrenceville and Torren's station, during Friday. They were just riding when it suited them.

A. They seemed to be mill men, as much as any thing else, from their appearance. They seemed to work somewhere where the sun did not strike them.

A. Yes; they paid nothing. On Saturday morning, coming in on the first trip, I did not see any of them. I had the usual run of passengers in that morning. Going out at nine-forty, I got a crowd on that covered the engine, and tank, and train, and every place. After I left Twenty-eighth street, I made up my mind between there and Lawrenceville that I would not go any further until I had got those parties off. I got to Lawrenceville, and went to the engine, and got a big coal pick, and then went to them, and said the first man that refuses to get off here, I am going to stick the coal pick in him. I found that they all got off, and seeing that I had it my own way with those on the engine, I thought I would try it with the others on the train. I did try it on them, and so pulled on to Millvale, when I did not have anybody on that did not pay any fare, and I kept that up all day Saturday, except one trip. On the half-past three trip, they were a little too thick. I threw them off, and knocked them off the train, and drove them off the engine with the pick. At Liberty, coming in on the twelve o'clock trip that day, I was about five minutes putting them off there. A crowd of them got on at Torrens. I got them all off, that did not pay any fare. My crew stood by me very well. During the whole trouble, if I had had a few more men on the train—I only had two of a crew—I could have cleaned them out all the time. I was not molested or troubled at all by the railroad men—that is on the train, in that way. I was told at Liberty, on Saturday night, that I could not run the train out the city there by one railroad man and one other.

A. A one-horse stock dealer. He went around the country buying up calves. I do not know what he is doing now. He is under indictment at present.

Q. You say you ran your train without carrying passengers that refused to pay fare except once. What day was that?

A. I did, but I concluded it was not going to be very healthy, and I gave it up. They would not get off, and made all sorts of threats. I did not know any of them that made the threats. They threatened that if there was any putting off, they would be the parties to do it, and I would be the one to go off.

A. I cannot, for I was just simply running on the train. I did not stop. The firing that took place at Twenty-eighth street occurred while I was out on a trip. They held me at Lawrenceville until it was all over and quiet, so that the track was clear when I came down. When I came in, there were not many there, but there was a big crowd there when I went out. I ran my train every trip except the last one, Saturday night. I went for information to the telegraph office, but could not get any, and I kept the train out there and did not make the last trip.

A. Except a little detention waiting for the crowds to open. They would always get out of the road. Nothing was said to me by any person—by any employé, except this man Hice. He asked me once if I did not think I had better stop, and I told him I did not think I had, that I would go on as long as there was a track to run on, and make the trips, if I could.

Q. Did you have any conversation with any of these men except Hice, or did you hear any of the strikers talking?

A. Two or three railroad men—I do not know their names—went out on my train at three o'clock on Thursday afternoon; they were going out home. I asked them what the trouble was, but I got but little satisfaction out of them, no more than they were swearing at the double-headers; that was all I could hear.

A. No; they said they were not going out, but they had nothing to do with the trouble. I think they went home, for I would see them still out down there when I went out. They were not in the crowds at all.

Q. Can you give the committee any information upon the occurrences that came under your observation?

A. On the morning of Thursday, the 19th, I started out on my usual time, at seven-twenty, with a coal train. I ran what is called the Pittsburgh coal train—making two round trips from Pittsburgh to Brinton's about eleven miles out. We left in the morning without any indication or sign of trouble on the road. Everything appeared to be going on as usual. There was no intimation of any trouble. Coming in on the road, about East Liberty or Torrens, we usually met the trains going out—the eight-forty's. We did not meet them. We should have passed them between those points. We did not know what was the matter, but thought there was some delay or no freight; but when we came to Torrens, some of the men about the stock-yards, by signs in this manner, [indicating,] showed there was a strike, as we understood; but we knew nothing definite until we got to Lawrenceville, and there ascertained there was a strike. We usually cut the engine loose on running by the upper round-house. There was a conductor came on the engine, and asked me if I was going out. I told him I certainly was, that I had no reason why I should not go out. He said the boys were on a strike, and they did not propose to let anybody go out.

A. I think he then resided in the Twelfth ward. I did not pay any attention to him, whatever, and the train was dropped past, and I pushed on to the west end of the yard, as usual. I believe there were no objections to putting trains away that came in.

A. I think he is, although he is not employed at present. I paid no attention to the threats. I asked what would be the consequence if I did go out, and he said that I would get my neck broke. I smiled. I told him I did not know—that it was pretty hard to break, as it was short and thick. I went on to Lawrenceville with the engine and crew. We carry four men on that train. It is a train that does a great deal of work, and we require two flagmen. There was a great deal of work to be done on that train, as it is a double train, and we take local traffic. At Lawrenceville I started to go down the track, when the conductor and crew left the engine. I said, boys are you not going out? They concluded not to go out, that they did not want to be black sheep. I told them that I did not know that the double-header business interfered with us, and it was only a question of double-headers, so far as I knew. Nevertheless, they concluded not to go out. I then took the engine down, and reported that there was no crew to go out. This was about eleven o'clock on Thursday morning. In the meantime, there was some scuffling about there. I saw men rush back and forward, and there were some policemen there. I did not know what the trouble was, and went down to make some inquiries from Mr. Fox. I asked what the matter was, and was told that they were trying to arrest a man that had struck Mr. Watt. They had got hold of him, but he was limber as an eel. The engine was taken into the round-house. About two or three o'clock that afternoon, an attempt was made to take the double train out—what is called the Union Line. Conductor France was to take it out. He asked me what to do about the matter. I said he ought to judge for himself—you know your business—but, if I were you, I would attempt to take the train out, and if they won't let you, then you have done your duty. He is a rather bold, brave fellow, and sometimes would go further than other men would. He said, I have got shooting-irons, and if they stop me I may hurt somebody. They coupled up the train, but they were stopped at the lower round-house. There were some parleying there, and some difficulty. A crowd was there, of twenty or thirty or forty, stretched along from Twenty-sixth to Twenty-eighth street.

A. They were railroad men—I can hardly tell who they were—principally railroad men at that time. The order was given to start the train. I think Mr. Watt was there, and the engineers made an effort to start, but the crowd got in front and commenced swinging their hands, and I saw one man flourishing a revolver. I think his name was Harris. They stopped them, and the engineers got off, and the firemen, and the train did not move. That was on Thursday, about three o'clock. On Thursday evening the engineers called a meeting over Clark's hotel, and I went to see what action would be taken in regard to the strike. Up to that time I understood the engineers had not taken any part—that they were a kind of silent party, looking on. They met and discussed the matter pro and con for some time. The older men advised not to have anything to do with the matter, that it was a conductors' and brakemen's fight, and that they should be left to fight it out themselves; but some time previous to this, there had been a reduction of ten per cent., and the engineers had sent a committee to Philadelphia to the general office, to see what could be done about it. The committee returned, and they had accepted the reduction in good faith. I told the meeting that the men had consented to take the reduction, and that so far as the double-headers were concerned, they had run them before, and that there was no objection—that it did not require any less engineers or firemen to run the double-headers, and that it did not effect us in that respect, but before the meeting broke up some men came in under the influence of liquor, and got a little noisy, and the thing dropped until Friday morning. On Friday morning they had another meeting, and I also went to that. The older engineers thought that we could keep the men out of it—the engineers and firemen—but it appeared to be determined on the part of the majority of the freight engineers and firemen to go into the matter, and the meeting was postponed until three o'clock. They did not come to any conclusion. The majority of the men there that morning were opposed to the strike. They concluded to have another meeting in the afternoon; and I saw, with a few others, that a resolution would be adopted that they would go for the strike, so I did not go, and I advised some of the younger men that I knew, not to go near the meeting. This was at Engineers' hall. About one o'clock they had organized the meeting, but I was not down there. They sent a sub-committee to come up and take me down by force to the meeting. I refused to go. Then they organized and concluded to go into the Trainmen's Union, and they went into it, and went into the strike—that is the majority of our freight men—engineers. Up to that time I did not know of any organized committee or anything else waiting on the officers, and I told our men in the morning you cannot consistently demand anything until you see the officers and have a refusal. I told them you have not made any request, and you are going into this thing without making any request, and that you have violated the law at the start, and you cannot expect to be successful; but they said that the iron was hot, and that they were going to strike. So after that time until the trouble was over, I had nothing to do with the men. I staid there until Saturday evening, ready to go out. In fact on Saturday my engine was fired up and ready to go out. I never refused to go out because I had never quit the service of the company.

A. By the brakemen, conductors, engineers, and firemen, and all those that wished to be there. On Saturday evening the troops came up, and I was back and forward to the shops. I was up on Twenty-eighth street, but I saw no violent demonstrations, although there was a big crowd there. I suppose, though, if there had been any effort on Friday or Saturday, to send trains out, there would have been violence. Plenty of revolvers and fire-arms were displayed there, by plenty of men outside of railroad men.

Q. Was it railroad men who flourished and displayed the revolvers and fire-arms?

A. I don't know. I suppose they were citizens from the East End—from the east of the city. There were thieves, and robbers, and rogues, and tramps there from the whole country.

A. I think the majority of them were outside of the railroad employés. Whether they were glass-blowers, or puddlers, or citizens of any other occupation, I could not tell. The Pittsburgh troops were on good terms with the mob. Some were giving them muskets, and marching up and down with the mob, and eating hard-tack with them, and there was a good feeling, generally, between them. The report came that the troops were coming from Philadelphia, and that there would quite likely be trouble with them, because they were strangers here, and would not know the position of things here, but would obey orders. From that, I inferred that the Pittsburgh soldiers had not exactly obeyed orders. I only inferred that. This was the kind of tone or feeling around there. When the Philadelphia troops came marching up through the yard, my engine was out. I think that General Pearson was there at the same time that the Philadelphia troops came up from Twenty-eighth street. I think that General Pearson was, and I am positive about Mr. Cassatt. He said to me: Fred., are you willing to go out? I said: Certainly. I have never refused to go out. Certainly, on condition that the mob is dispersed. I would not like to run through it. I don't want to hurt anybody. He said: We don't want to send anybody out, until the mob is dispersed. I thought that if there was any determination displayed on the part of the troops, the mob would go away. Shortly after that, I was at the upper end of the lower round-house, half way between Twenty-sixth and Twenty-eighth streets. After the troops got up there, somebody made a speech—some one of the officers, or somebody—made a little speech, warning the people to go away, and disperse. I couldn't hear exactly what was said. Then I saw some of the soldiers come down shortly after that, and one of them, particularly, had the whole side of his face knocked off by a brick. They were the Philadelphia troops. Some of the others came down sick. I don't know whether they were sunstruck, or what kind of struck, but they were weak about the knees, some of them. Then, by and by, I heard a little bit of musketry rattling, and then heard them shoot in every direction, and saw the crowd dispersing in every direction—some running up the hill, and some up the railroad, and some down Twenty-eighth street. In a short time, nobody was there. The troops came down to the round-house, and were quartered there, with the Gatling gun put in position, off Twenty-eighth street. I heard one of the officers of the troops saying, that they could not stand it much longer—that they were yelled at and struck—that they had not come to Pittsburgh to hurt anybody, but that they couldn't stand it much longer. But General Brinton told them, in my hearing, that they shouldn't shoot at all. They had barricaded Twenty-eighth street. The troops were barricaded there. Guards were posted properly, I suppose; but they had no rations, and a good many of the men commenced to complain about something to eat—that they had only had a small lunch since they had left Altoona, or somewhere. Somebody remarked, that they would open up the Gatling gun on the mob, if it didn't quit throwing the stones and missiles at the men. This was about six o'clock. The General came, and said, I don't want a man to shoot, without the barricades are broken in. Stand back, and don't use any violence. I won't allow any shooting to be done, without, it is in self-defense. I remained there until half past eight or nine o'clock. The mob had gathered so thick that it was almost impossible to get through. From Penn up to Liberty, and from Twenty-sixth up to Twenty-eighth streets, there was a solid mass of people. At that time, the old telegraph office was shot into, and stones were thrown into it, and the only thing that prevented them from shooting everybody there, was simply because the street was so much lower, and they had to shoot up, and the balls struck in the ceiling. One or two of the soldiers were struck in the back by missiles, or with stones in the face. One of the officers was struck, and it kind of riled him. By that time, an order came to send to Union depot to take the fast line out. Nobody was about. They had the engine, but no engineer. Mr. White asked me to go down. I said I would, if I could. I tried to get out at the rear of the shops, but the mob would not let me out. An officer was called up to pass me out of the round-house. I said, if you let me out between the office and the old round-house, I can jump off the wall, and get down. Previous to this time, it was generally thought, in the crowd outside, that Mr. Pitcairn and some of the officers, (Mr. Watt,) were in the office—in the outer depot office. It appeared that there was an antipathy against these men, and they wanted to get at them. Some remarks were made that they had coffins for them, and others said: Get them out of there. Just such threats the mob would make. They seemed to have made up their minds that those men had ordered the double-headers, or the reduction, and they were going to take their revenge out of them. They were instructed so (the mob was) by the railroad men. I thought that they were up there. I didn't know they were away. I thought they were there. Then I jumped off the wall. In the act of jumping, I was fired at. I suppose some ten or twelve balls were fired at me by some men there who had no love for me.

A. The mob outside. I got out of the crowd and into the Union depot. I found then that it was countermanded—that the fast line was not to go out. I went into the depot, and I don't know who I found, now—but I found out that the train was not to go. I found Mr. Pitcairn there, and I told him I thought it was not a wholesome place for him, that he had better leave. I told him I thought that some of the men were disposed to do him some personal damage if they came across him, and from the way in which the mob or the crowd felt, I didn't think it would be very well for anybody to get in their way at that time. About nine o'clock there was somebody came and asked for volunteers to take an engine out to the outer depot, to take provisions up to the troops. I told them I would, and I waited for some time, and then I found out that they had come to the conclusion that it would not be safe to go up. I heard no more of it until morning. I staid with the engine during that whole night, and saw the fires getting brighter and brighter, and coming closer down. I staid there at Union depot until eleven o'clock Sunday, when I drew the fires out of the engine and left her standing there by the orders of the depot-master, and went home by the way of the Fifth avenue street cars. While waiting for dinner, my brother-in-law heard a train, and I went out on the road, and I saw a train coming backward. I gave a slight signal and the engineer stopped. It was not very hard to stop a train then. The conductor inquired what I wanted; he said that he was going out as far as Walls. I said I would like to go. It seemed that some of the troops were coming in and came as far as Torrens, and were ordered back. I went to bed early in the afternoon after getting there. I came in on Monday, and was at our head-quarters at Fast Liberty. I thought our foreman was there. I reported for duty. About noon he asked me to run the Walls accommodation train. I said, certainly, I will run the train. I run it—no, I did not go out that trip, for the man who had the engine refused to get off, although he had asked in the first place to get off. When I came he refused to give it up. He pulled out a pistol and displayed it, and refused to give the engine up, yet he had asked in the first place to be relieved. So I told Mr. Whetman, our foreman of the round-house. Well, says he, let him run it, but he told me sometime ago, that he was tired and wanted to be relieved. I remained there until afternoon, when I got orders to take the engine. I went down again, and said, I have orders to take this engine. So I took her and run her sometime—I run her that night from Thirty-third street to Walls and back on regular trips. But I didn't make the last trip. In the morning I came in at the usual time. When I came in, it appears that a committee had waited on Mr. Whetman, and told him to take me off that engine. I believe the man Reynolds told him that they would not allow me to run the engine. Then Mr. Henry took the engine and run one round trip, when Mr. Blender took her. But before this, I was to go to Lawrenceville to take a train down to find a committee of men to have a conference about the thing. Mr. Garrett got on the engine. I asked where I was to go at East Liberty. John Shires and McCullough, who were on, were both of this committee, and Mr. Garrett told me that these parties wanted to go down for this conference. Shires spoke up and said, we will give you orders where we want you to go—we are running this road now. In fact I did not know who was running it. I had nothing to say. Five or six more parties got on, and we came to Pittsburgh. Shires gave me orders to go on down. Things went on so all that week. No train went out until the following Sunday, when I was ordered to take the yard engine at Torrens, and load some stock.

A. He was a conductor on a shifting engine at that time. On Sunday we loaded some stock at Torrens I took the engine that usually did that work. Nobody was on her. I examined the fire and water, and found all right, and went to move the engine, when the engineer that had been on her came up and asked me what I was going to do. I said I had orders to run this engine. He said, I am running this engine. I said all right, and got off, and reported to Mr. Whetman. He said that the man had refused to move the stock; but said he would move passenger cars. He was not willing to move stock. He went down to the man and talked to him; but it appeared it had no effect. He would not do it. He came back and said, I want you to take that engine. I went down and tried to persuade the man. He was a man of family, and I thought he had better sense. I said to him this thing is all broken up, and it was a mistake from the start. This stock ought to be loaded, and I said you are taking revenge out of innocent parties. I said I don't know who will provide for your family if you are out of work, and I am confident if you won't work now they won't give you work when you want it. He said they would have to take him. He would not take the stock, so I took the engine and loaded the stock.

A. No; I had no crew then; so Mr. Scott, the agent at the stock-yards, and Mr. Gummey, volunteered to couple the cars and do the work. So he, and I, and Mr. Scott did the work. We loaded three or four double trains that afternoon.

A. Well, so far as I know, I think it was caused by one man only refusing to go out—the flagman of that train.

A. Yes; and I think the rest fell in kind of spontaneously as they came in off the road.

Q. Have you been able to gather anything from the men, showing that they had a pre-arranged plan for a strike that morning?

A. Not that particular strike. I understood a month or so before, that the Trainmen's Union had organized a strike for a certain time, but I don't remember the day or date. I know there was such talk among the men, that there would be a strike that day among the brakemen and conductors. There was nothing of the kind among the engineers, that I know of, because had the engineers held meetings at other places, I would have heard them speak of it. Previous to that time there was nothing among the engineers and firemen; but, the day passed over, and there was no strike; and, of this strike on Thursday, the 19th, I heard nothing of it—I knew nothing of it, and our crew knew nothing of it—at least they said nothing to me, and it appeared to be a surprise to them when we came in. Railroad men sometimes are very communicative; they generally let one know, directly or indirectly, what is in the wind. They generally know one among the other.

A. I don't know what this Trainmen's Union is. It was a new thing to me. I heard of it, that is all. I believe that such an organization existed, and had for some time.

A. I don't really know—I never heard particularly—only from the talk of the men It was kind of protective or like all labor organizations—something of that kind—to unite the men together, and get them to act in unity.

Q. At the meeting you spoke of, did the engineers and firemen agree to go into that union?

Q. Do you know whether the Engineers' Brotherhood assisted or encouraged this strike of the Trainmen's Union?

A. I don't know that they did. If they did, they violated their obligations. They might have been in sympathy.

Q. At what time was the first effort made to prevent men from going out who were willing to go?

A. As far as I know—I was out on the road at that time that this refusal was made—that occurred sometime about eight o'clock in the morning. I left Pittsburgh at seven-twenty, and didn't get back until eleven o'clock. What transpired in the meantime, I cannot tell you. I know nothing about it, only from hearsay.

Q. Do you know, of your own knowledge, whether it was discharged men or men in the employ of the company who would prevent others from going out, either by persuasion or by force?

A. I don't know that. I know that sometime in the afternoon, when that attempt was made at three o'clock, or thereabouts, there were employés and non-employés among the party.

A. It was generally supposed—at the time of the fire and riot, I was at Union Depot, and I saw them carrying off goods—hauling them off by wagon loads and wheelbarrow loads—men, women, and children—it was generally supposed that all the thieves that could get here in two days, from all the country around, had got here; and I suppose, everybody thought that the property had better be carried off than be burned.

A. I think so; although some of the passenger men may have been in sympathy with them.

Q. Please state whether it was discharged men, or whether it was men who were then in the employ of the railroad company who first prevented the trains from going out, either by persuasion or by interference?

A. As far as I could see it was men still in the employ of the company. On the morning that this occurred they conversed about it. I suppose in that way they persuaded them not to go out.

A. Harris, his name was. I gave his name in as Gus. Whether it was proper or not, I don't know.

A. In the morning, on the first trip, at six-twenty, and on the last trip leaving Pittsburgh, at five-twenty.

A. I was coming down to go out on the five-twenty trip, and when I came to the round-house, above Twenty-eighth street, I saw a crowd of boys there. I asked what was going on—I asked somebody that I was acquainted with, and was told that the freight men were on a strike. That was, as near as I can tell, about four o'clock.

A. I suppose about fifty persons. I thought that somebody was hurt by the Johnstown accommodation. It was just such a crowd as gathers when an accident takes place.

A. Nothing further than ascertaining what was going on. I went down to the lower round-house after my engine.

Q. Were you present during the riotous conduct, on any of those days from Thursday morning?

A. I made my usual trips on Thursday and on Friday without any trouble, any more than this crowd getting on and off the engine between Torrens and Pittsburgh.

A. The majority of them were not railroad men. They didn't appear to be accustomed to riding trains.

Q. Have you any knowledge of new facts not related by the other engineers or conductors here who have testified?

Q. Can you give us any new light, as to the organization of the men or their plans of action, or the names of the prominent strikers?

A. Except when I passed through with the train. I was not there. I didn't see the freight trains from that Thursday until the Sunday after running. I was aware of the fact that there was a suspension of business.

A. Coming in from the five-twenty trip, they told us that we couldn't go out again. Some men got on the engine and told me so.

A. I don't know. It was night, and I didn't pay much attention to their appearance.

Q. These men gave no reasons for refusing to allow you to go out again on Saturday night?

Pursuant to adjournment, the committee assembled at three o'clock, P.M., this day, and continued the taking of testimony.

Q. Were you in the vicinity of the disorders that occurred, commencing on the 19th day of July last—that day or at any time following?

A. I went out there in the evening about five o'clock—along there—and I think the burning commenced about ten and a half o'clock.

Q. What was the conduct of the crowd at five or six o'clock, when you went there first?

A. There was a lot of talking going on about the soldiers; but not being interested in the thing at all, I didn't pay much attention to it.

Q. Did you see anybody set fire to any car or building, or anything in the vicinity of Twenty-eighth street?

A. I don't know where he got his fire. When I noticed him first he was in the car. He had a bunch of shavings, and was in a sitting down position, and appeared to me to be kindling a fire. When the fire got kindled he jumped out. I saw him fifteen or twenty minutes afterwards. He was the only person I know of.

A. If there had been no other fire it would have burnt that car up; but there was fire all around.

Q. Describe whether there were other fires going on then, and how they were kindled, and what the mob were doing, and describe all the circumstances that took place at that time?

A. There appeared to me to be a gang of men. I don't know who they were—whether railroaders or not.

Q. Did they seem to have any organized leaders, or were they directed by anybody?

A. They were ordering each other around. I can't say whether they had an organization or not.

A. It appeared to me at that time that it was an organization, but I don't say it positively myself.

Q. What did the crowd seem to be aiming at, at that time—was it the destruction of property?

A. I can't say that. There was a great deal of destruction and thieving going on.

Q. Was there any attempt made by any one, so far as you saw, to fire private property?

Q. This man Marshall you spoke of, was entirely alone when you saw him fire the car?

A. It stood in a train. They kept running cars down, six or seven at a time, against each other. This came down with the rest of them.

Q. The cars that were run down, then, would stop somewhere near the round-house?

Q. Was there any attack being made upon the round-house by the mob at that time?

Q. Was there anything said by the mob about the soldiers being quartered in the round-house?

A. I went out in the evening about six or seven o'clock, along there. I stayed along Liberty street and was once or twice on the railroad, and saw Marshall, and along Liberty street at four or five o'clock in the morning.

A. That just appeared to be—I stood along the edge of the railroad, and this car was on the second or third track, off the edge of the railroad.

Q. Did you say that other cars were burning when this man Marshall fired this coke car?

Q. Did they have the appearance of railroad men—familiar with tracks and with getting on and going about cars?

A. They were close. There were cars all around, I suppose within thirty, or forty, or fifty feet.

Q. How large was the crowd there during the night—take an average.—I mean the crowd engaged in burning or pillaging or plundering?

Q. What is your opinion as to how large the crowd was—a thousand men or five thousand or ten thousand?

Q. You mean that were about in the vicinity, and seemed to be taking part in the destruction of property?

Q. Was there any effort made to stop the destruction of property during the night?

Q. You are officially connected with the Allegheny Valley Railroad—in what capacity?

Q. State whether there were any differences between the Allegheny Valley Railroad Company and their employés, existing prior to the 19th day of July last?

A. There was some dissatisfaction among the men in regard to the ten per cent. reduction, but they all appeared to accept it.

Q. Between the 1st of June and the 19th of July, was there any organization among the men, so far as you could learn, or any pre-arranged plan to strike?

A. There was nothing positive. I understood that quite a number of the men were joining what was called the Trainmen's Union.

A. Of my own knowledge I did not. I understood it was being organized for the purpose of organizing a strike.

Q. Did you, as superintendent, have any communication with the men that you understood were joining the organization in relation to it?

A. A short time before the strike, three or four of our men, I understood, were very active in it, and I think I suspended one or two temporarily, and talked to some others about it. My information just previous to the strike led me to suppose that our men were not going to stand by it, or were withdrawing—that they would not go into the strike.

A. Generally those of the lower grade of pay—such as brakemen; that class of men.

A. I would qualify the other statement by stating that on Saturday, about ten o'clock, I got a message stating that the shop men had held a meeting and determined not to work any longer without the ten per cent. was restored. We went out and called the men together, and Mr. Shinn, our vice president, made a speech, and explained the situation to them, and they held a meeting and agreed to stand by the reduction and go to work again. That was the first difficulty we had. On Monday, I think was the first refusal, on the part of the train men, to perform service.

A. On Monday, I went down with an empty train, and turned up Pike street. There they drew up, and I went on to the shops. We had a street engine that far. After getting to the Thirty-fourth street station, I was surprised to see a road engine standing there. I imagined, at once, there was going to be a difficulty, and I got off the engine and walked up to the round-house, and there was quite a large number of our men congregated there. I spoke to them, and asked them what this meant. None of them made any reply. I told them that the Pennsylvania Railroad Company had made some arrangement with their men, and that, of course, we would be governed by any arrangement made on the trunk lines. I told them they were foolish to go into the strike in the midst of the excitement—that it would do them no good. I then asked one of the engineers to go on the express engine standing there, and take her out. I got no reply. I said: "Boys, I am very sorry you are acting badly, and if you don't take the engine out, I will have to take her myself." I got on the engine and took her out, and made a coupling on a train and started. In the meantime, one of the firemen came down and got on with me. By the time I got up to the round-house, one of the engineers came and took the engine from me.

A. Oh, no. I went back to the men, and by that time quite a crowd was gathered around, and there was a great deal of excitement. There were a great many people around that I never saw before. The men said they were going to call a meeting. I told them as a great many strangers, apparently, were around, I would sooner they would go away from the shops, and call their meeting at some other place where they could do it quietly. They did so, and concluded that they would not go to work. I succeeded in running all the trains that day that I cared about running.

A. By working myself, and by calling on the dispatchers and two or three of the engineers. The next day a great many strangers were in our yard, apparently influencing our men. I sent for some of our men, and told them that I could not understand their conduct, that we had always endeavored to treat them kindly and squarely, then they said it was not their fault, that they were forced into it, and were doing what they did by intimidation; that it would be as much as their lives were worth to undertake to run those trains. By Tuesday noon I had a great deal of difficulty in getting the passenger trains to run. The men would be scared off and desert them. I gave the men notice on Tuesday afternoon, at three o'clock, that if they wanted the onus of stopping all the passenger trains on our road, they would have to do it—that we would not be justified in undertaking to run trains and run the risk of having an accident occur to them by their refusing to perform their duty.

A. They called a meeting about four o'clock. I sent up to that meeting and asked them to send me down a man to take out the passengers that had come into the city that morning, so that we could get them home. I could not get any person to do that, and had to do it myself. I took the train out. That evening there was a committee waited on me with a proposal that they would run two of our trains—would select the crew to take charge of them. I had been unable to get any protection whatever either from the military or civil authorities.

A. I sent a request to the committee of public safety, and had also gone and seen General Brown, personally, to get some protection for our shops, and also some ammunition for a company that we had at Verona guarding our property there. General Brown said he could give me no assistance, whatever, and so far as his ammunition was concerned, he had but very few cartridges for his command. He, however, gave me forty, and an order to gather up the company at Verona, and place them on duty there. He said he could not allow any troops to be sent out of the city at all, as he deemed it of more importance to keep them in the city than to send them on the outskirts. From Mr. Thaw, I learned also, that the committee of public safety had declined to send any persons. After the men had made their proposal, I notified them that I would give them an answer in the morning, and started up to the east end and saw Mr. Shinn, our vice president, and submitted their proposal to him, and explained the position we were in—that we could get no protection either from the civil or military authorities, and that if our men were willing to work, I thought it would be prudent, on our part, to submit to the men until such times as the authorities could regain control. He agreed with me, and authorized me to let the men take charge of the trains and run them, so as not to stop the United States mails. The trains were run under the charge of the men for two days—Wednesday and Thursday. On Friday, we took charge of the trains ourselves again. We ran the passenger trains on Friday and on Saturday—all we desired to, and notified the men on Saturday that we proposed to commence running trains on Monday. And I advised all the men that desired to retain their positions, and who wanted to go to work again, that if they would come down on Monday and take their trains they could do so.

A. We had some difficulty up until two o'clock, and I was compelled to employ a few new men. After that, the men saw that we were determined, to start the business on the road again, and the majority came in, and we had all the men we wanted.

A. I think on Thursday night. I went down to General Brown, and got an order from him to bring the company that was at Verona, doing duty there, to Forty-third street. He also sent a detail of cavalry from the city, and we took charge of the road on Friday morning, and started our trains.

A. On Tuesday, Mr. Paul came to me, and told me. He said: "Mr. King, you are running a great risk. There is a great deal of excitement, and I have heard a great many threats, not only against you, but your road." I think it was at nine o'clock in the morning—between nine and ten. I said to him: "Mr. Paul, you see the condition of things here. If you can do anything with the committee of public safety, I think you should go and explain our position to them." He remarked to me that he had heard some threats among the men on Butler street, about burning the bridges and destroying property, and, also, some threats against me personalty, on account of my having been running trains out. The men were afraid to take them at the station, on account of the threats made against them. I could not get the trains run out, but as soon as I would get out of the city limits, an engineer would come forward, and relieve me. In that way, we were enabled to keep the passenger trains going.

A. He was a neighbor of mine, living at Verona—of the firm of Metcalf, Paul & Co.—a member of that firm.

A. No. I was very busy, watching our property, and could not get down town during the day. Everybody was excited, and there were a good many outsiders around.

A. He did tell me, but I don't recollect now. I think he went in before the committee, and made a speech to them, and explained the situation—at least, that is my recollection.

Q. What kind of assistance was the committee of public safety rendering at that time?

A. I can't answer that. They were organizing the citizens into companies, for the purpose of protecting the city.

A. Yes. The night I drove out to see Mr. Shinn the whole city appeared to be patrolled. It was midnight, and I was halted at almost every corner. The citizens were all apparently out.

A. Half past five in the evening. Mr. Shinn was there at half past two or three, and called the men together, and made a speech. I left then, and I think they all returned to work.

Q. Did I understand you to say that all the trains, both passenger and freight, were running on Saturday?

A. Yes; we sent out the night trains on Saturday evening, after the trouble had commenced.

Q. Was the same order issued by your company that was issued by the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, as to running double headers?

Q. The only reduction in any way was the ten per cent. reduction, on the 1st of June, on your road?

Q. Had you any reason to apprehend any strike, prior to the breaking out of the one here among your men?

A. No; I had an assurance from quite a number that they would not go into the strike.

Q. Did you receive any order from Colonel Grey upon Captain Patterson to furnish you with men?

A. I think that is the order I referred to. I went and saw General Brown, and he gave me an order to Captain Patterson, to get the men together and report for duty at Verona shops.

A. Yes; I am not sure whether it was Monday night or Tuesday. My recollection is, it was Monday night, but probably it was Tuesday.

Q. Did he give you the order when you first saw him—the first time he was called upon?

A. I was to see him two or three times during that period, and I am not positive about it. I think it was the second time; it may have been the first. I am not positive.

A. I explained to him, that we had a guard of seventy-five men, that we had organized ourselves at Verona, among whom were some of the Verona company, but they had no ammunition. I think that the General said to me, if I could get that company together, he would let it remain, but he could not send any troops from the city hall.

A. He deemed it more important to keep the command together than to separate them.

A. No; we did not need it until after the riot. It was only from the desire to protect our men who were willing to work. And I had been advised on Monday or Tuesday of some incendiary speech, made among the miners, and I looked for some trouble among them.

A. Nothing but a baggage car at Union depot and the tracks running in front of the round-house where we approached Union depot.

A. Some with ore; the merchandise cars I removed Sunday night myself. Word was sent to me that the men were going to burn the freight station.

Q. In the interviews you had with your men before the strike—between the 1st of June and the strike—what reasons did the men give for their anticipated strike?

Q. They were dissatisfied with the reduction of wages. There had been one the previous year or so, and this one coming in that time, made them very much dissatisfied.

A. The business was very irregular and spurty. Sometimes we were running all the trains we could, and then they would drop off. And rates were not so good as they had been.

Q. From your position, you should judge that was the reason why the reduction was made?

A. I should judge it was a necessity on the part of the management to do it, on account of the condition of the trade of the country.

Q. There had been strikes in other parts of the country before this trouble occurred here—for instance, at Martinsburg?

Q. Did you have any consultation with the railroad authorities when this occurred—or did you take any measures to avert this?

A. There had been some talk in regard to the train men's union, that it was for the purpose of getting up a strike. But many of our men, I understood, were withdrawing from it, and would not lend themselves to anything of the kind. For that reason I did not anticipate any trouble among our men.

Q. Do you know whether there was any aid asked of or any consultation held with the authorities before the strike came about?

Q. How did the business that the road was doing for three months prior to June 1st, when the reduction was made in wages, compare with the same three months of the year before?

A. My recollection is that our average may have been a little heavier, but I am not positive about that.

A. Yes; our business is spasmodic. It is the oil business. A part of the year they are doing a good business, and then it drops off to nothing.

Q. How did the prices for the carrying of freight compare in 1877 with those in 1876?

A. My impression is that the rates in 1877 were lower than in 1876. I want to say here, that our shifting engines handling freight on the street had been interfered with two or three times during Saturday morning by the crowd going down Twenty-eighth street, and sent back. I walked out the street, from Eleventh street to Forty-third—between eleven and twelve o'clock. I saw that there was a very considerable excitement among the people, and a good deal of feeling. From there I went up on to Twenty-eighth street, where the strikers were in possession of the track. I saw but very few people there that I knew. Some faces were familiar to me. I came back to the office, and got a report about the action of the men at the shop, and went out there at half-past two o'clock, and on my return I walked up to the Pennsylvania railroad shops, and found the troops were moving out. I went in through the yard, and followed in the rear of the column. After the troops reached the vicinity of Twenty-eighth street, I got up on a car right in the rear of them, and I watched their movements—the formation of the command. The crossings were cleared. I saw a few stones thrown among the crowd, and I saw a man with a cap on—saw him draw a pistol, and fire into the troops.

A. I cannot answer that. When the company struck the crowd on the crossing there was a recoil like jumping up against a rock. There did not appear to be any give to it. Then there was a struggle, and some of the men reached for the muskets, and two or three of the soldiers pulled back and brought their muskets to a charge, and three or four shots were fired.

A. Yes; and then there appeared to be a volley from the entire command—a rattling fire—starting at the front rank and breaking back to the rear.

A. The head commenced firing, and then it run back on the wings. It was an irregular roll of musketry. I got off the car, and fell back after the firing ceased. My position was somewhat exposed.

A. They appeared to come from the hill side—in the vicinity of the watch-box, near the crossing.

Q. What was the effect of the firing of the stones among the militia—was there any damage done to life or limb?

A. I noticed a sergeant of one of the Philadelphia companies with a bad cut on the face. He came back with his face shattered. The thing came very quick.

A. I did not. I went to the rear of the cars I was standing on, and the soldiers were breaking back in my direction, and I did not notice what was going on in front after that. There was just one volley. The soldiers just emptied their muskets.

A. A panic on the hill side—every person ran from the hill side and the crossing.

A. I left the crossing, and went from there to the telegraph office, and wrote some messages to the freight depot and shops, directing them to put on a heavy guard during the night. While I was there Mr. Watt came in, and told me that the mob had started for the arsenal. I telegraphed to the commandant to take care of our shops, and advised him to be on his guard. The message was delivered within five or ten minutes after it was sent.

Q. Was any actual violence used by the strikers to prevent the trains running on your road?

Q. When you were running that engine yourself, what was the mob composed of—men that had been in your employ, or in the employ of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, or tramps? Describe the crowd?

Q. I understood you to say that application was made to the civil authorities. What do you mean by that?

Q. If you were present when the first firing occurred, I wish you would give us a description of it—what it was started by, and what the condition of the crowd was at that time?

A. I was at the corner of Penn and Twelfth streets when the alarm was struck, 10.40 o'clock by city time, or a few minutes later. I saw a flash in the sky and heard the alarm, and hurried on up Penn street. I knew what it meant. There were some oil cars stored in the Pennsylvania yard at the time, and I saw it was the flash of an oil fire. I think about Twentieth street the fire commenced. I then went about a square, and I heard a torpedo explode, and I got to the next corner and saw the fire on Penn street, and on the side street.

A. Yes; it made a noise similar to that. The engines were driving fast at the time. I went to the vicinity of the coke yards, and remained there until half past two or three o'clock in the morning.

A. No, I was walking. When I got up there, they were dropping the cars down to the cars that had already been set on fire—quite a crowd was around. The burning of the cars appeared to have commenced. People were passing with their arms full of dry goods and things of that kind. As fast as the cars were dropped down, they were set fire to. Every few minutes there would be a panic among them, and they would flee like wolves or sheep, but seeing that there was no danger, they would come back again. I remained there until three o'clock, and then walked to the shops to see if everything was quiet there. After I got there, I got a message from Colonel McKee, of the Oil City command, stating that he was on his way, but had no ammunition. I telegraphed to General Latta, and asked him where it could be got at some point on the road, before reaching the city. I did not get any answer. The wires were interrupted between the city and our place, and at four and a half o'clock, I started down to Union depot, to hunt up General Latta.

A. Yes, sir; I met a great many people coming from the vicinity of the Pennsylvania yards, all having more or less plunder. A great many of them were in liquor. I got to Union depot, I believe, at six and a half o'clock. I went up to General Latta, after getting to Union depot, and he told me he had some ammunition, and would give me some after a bit, for Colonel McKee's command. He appeared to be very much exercised over the condition of the troops at the round-house at that time. A short time after, Captain Breck came in and reported that General Brinton had broken cover and started for the country. I think he told General Latta and one or two others sitting in the hotel at the time. The general and the captain went up stairs, and after that I did not see them. I remained in the vicinity of our shops and the Union depot until twelve o'clock Sunday, and then went up among the mob. I went to see what the character of the crowd was, and to see if I knew any of them. There appeared to me to be about seventy-five or one hundred and fifty men that were organized. One man, particularly, I noticed with black whiskers with a stick in his hand that appeared to be the leader. They would go on and destroy a lot of cars and then meet apparently to consult. He would wave his stick, the mob would follow, and do as he directed. I saw them setting fire to the cars there. Such a hard looking set of people I never saw before. I did not recognize anybody that I had ever seen. Quite a number of them appeared to be in liquor. They had cleaned out everything down as far as what is called the "brewery switches."

A. About Fifteenth or Sixteenth street. One of them got up on a car and made a speech, and declared that, as near as I could judge from their actions—I could not hear their words—that the Union depot would be the next point affected. Two cars loaded with plunder were got into position and set fire to, and shoved up over the hill and down to the other cars on the other side. As fast as the gang appeared to make an advance, the plunderers kept ahead of them.

A. No, sir; they were not railroad men. They looked to me like roughs of the lowest description. They had the vilest countenances I ever saw. One man, I noticed, was so intoxicated that he could hardly stand on his legs, but he would go in among the cars and do what a sober man could not do.

A. I recognized him as the leader of the party, and I would know his face again. If I should ever see him, I would recognize him. They appeared determined to drop the burning cars into the depot, and I went down and threw an engine off the track, and blocked the track so that they could not do that. A great many people were around at the time, and it was thought that by the time they reached the depot they would not have the courage to come in there. The police were there, and I did not think that they would undertake to fire it.

Q. When they reached Union depot, how many did the mob number, that were actually engaged in the burning?

A. I cannot answer that. A great many people were around in the vicinity, and in the streets, and on the hill side, and all around—a great many people were there.

A. They were followed by an army of plunderers. This gang appeared to be the center, and as they went along, the plunderers demolished everything that came in their way. After they found they could not drop any cars into the depot they walked right into the office, at the north end of the depot, and knocked the windows out, and presently there was a flash there, and in a few minutes the shed was on fire. After the depot was fired, I walked to Forty-third street to see how things were going. I returned after the elevator took fire. I saw from that position that it was on fire, and I commenced to have grave doubts whether they could check it—whether they could prevent the lower end of the town from burning.

Q. Did this gang of men fire property below the depot, or did that catch from the depot?

A. I was not in the vicinity of the depot when the property on the other side was fired, and I cannot answer that, nor when the elevator was fired.

A. The crowd was scattered then. The elevator was on fire, and the Pan Handle yards were on fire. I got word then that they were going to attack our property, and I started right to the shops, and took an engine and removed what property we had.

Q. State what knowledge you have as to any dissatisfaction among the employés of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company in regard to wages prior to the 19th of July last?

A. I have no knowledge more than any person would have who has his wages reduced. The men spoke about the reduction of their wages, that it was a little hard. They talked to me about the order. I told them that we were all in the same fix, and tried to point out to them that the reduction was general—that the business of the company had become reduced, and I supposed that they thought it was necessary to make a reduction. Most of the men that I talked to on the subject seemed to be satisfied. They didn't feel good about it, but they didn't say that they would offer any resistance to a reduction, or that they would strike, or anything of that sort.

A. Yes; they talked about it some. Of course we had heard about the troubles on the Baltimore and Ohio, and had heard about the Trainmen's Union, and also heard about men withdrawing from that, and also about its being bursted up. What I think the cause of the trouble was the very light business that was doing. Then in June, when the reduction was made, we found we had a large surplus of men, and we reduced the force to suit about the volume of business doing then. In doing that, we had regard to the condition of the men. Those who were married we tried to retain, and those who had been a long time in the service we tried to retain, and occasionally if we had a man who could get along at something else, or who was in particularly good circumstances, we would discharge him, in order to keep some man who was not so well favored. That threw some men out of employment. Then on the 16th of July—that was the morning on which the new arrangement was to go into effect—the running of double-headers. That is, instead of taking two trains from Pittsburgh to Derry, with seventeen cars, we would run one train with thirty-four cars.

A. It was to take effect on the 19th. The order had been issued some time previously, and posted on the bulletin boards where the men could see it. When this order was posted up, the men would come, and I saw them looking at the bulletin boards. No one expressed any dissatisfaction. There had been some talk among the men that it would dispense with the services of quite a number, which, of course, we admitted it would, and the more so, from the fact that while formerly we were running men from Conemaugh, the company found it inconvenient to run trains to Conemaugh, and were making Derry the dividing point. We were running from Pittsburgh to Derry and back again. That would give the smaller portion of the run to the men on this end of the road, and, of course, a smaller number of men were required. But to fix that, the day previous to the strike I went out to Derry, and there had a consultation with Mr. Edward Pitcairn, who is the train master at Derry. We saw the difficulty, and tried to provide for it, by taking seven or eight crews, of four men to a crew, to run between Derry and Altoona. As we were getting along with a less number of men, at the other end they would require a greater number of men. That was on Wednesday, the day preceding the riot. We had the thing all arranged, as I thought. I came into Pittsburgh the next morning about nine o'clock, when one of the dispatchers told me on my arrival, that one of the trains had not gone out. I asked him the reason, and he said that the brakemen had refused to go out on the train. I asked him the number of men he had asked to go out, and he said quite a number—eighteen or twenty, perhaps more. I told him I would go out and talk with the men about the matter. I felt about that, that we had a large surplus of men, and if only a portion of the men were insubordinate and refused to run, it would relieve us from embarrassment. I had no idea that it would extend beyond that. I went out and found eighteen or twenty men, and asked them if they had any objections to go out. Some just declined to go out on double trains, and others said nothing. Of the men present, I couldn't get any to go. The conductors were willing to go. I conferred then with Mr. McCabe, and he suggested that we should get some of the yard men to man the trains. We called on several of them, and finally got three to go as brakemen. Preparation was made to start the train. I walked some distance in advance of the engine that was to take the train, and met some men coming along that seemed to be somewhat demonstrative, and among them one man very violent—one now undergoing his trial. He remarked to me—I said something about the switches—I cannot remember now what—and he remarked to me that no trains would go out, or something to that effect. I asked why, and he said that they had resolved not to let anything go out. I remonstrated with him, and said: "Hice, you have a perfect right to refuse to go out if you don't want to go out, but you have no right to interfere with others." He said it had got to be a question of bread or blood, and that they were going to resist. I left him, and then came to attend to some other matter towards the switches. I heard something behind me and turned around, and saw a considerable confusion. I saw links and pins being hurled at these yard men on the train. I saw one of them struck. I saw a link or pin falling from his person, and saw it hit him. I also saw men going on the engine. I came forward then and found no person on the engine at all, and found that the men we had expected to run the train all driven away. I found that we were defeated in getting the train out. It was not worth while to parley with the men at all. We had no force at all—no police at all—or not very strong. I went to the office of Mr. Watt, who was acting in the place of Mr. Pitcairn, who was absent, and it was suggested that inasmuch as a large quantity of live stock was at East Liberty, and it was important to get that away, that I should go there and anticipate any power that might be coming west, and put the cars away, and take the power and send the live stock away from East Liberty. I immediately did that, and went there on the first train I met. I went to Torrens, and at East Liberty I met a coal train, and I stopped the train and went to the conductor and told him what I wanted. I told him to put his cars in there and to take a train of live stock from East Liberty. I didn't tell him anything about the trouble in Pittsburgh. He went away and conferred with some person, and then came and told me that he declined to do that. I left him go. I then went to Torrens, not wishing to lose any time, and while there received a message from the superintendent's office telling me that two engines were on the way there and would soon arrive—two engines westward. I then received another message to make haste, that Hice and his crowd had started for Torrens to interfere with the live stock. I made all the haste I could. I went down to Gray's switches, and there waited the arrival of the two engines, took the cars from them, crossed the engines coming west over to the other track, adjusted the switches, and went on down. When I got down there, Hice and his party had just arrived.

A. I don't know. The distance is not very great. I don't know what time they started, and I don't know by what route. I rather think they walked up the track to Torrens. At that time, when we got back, the party was there and surrounding the engines. I got up on one of the engines and asked the engine man what was wrong. He said he couldn't take the stock. They said that their lives had been threatened if they moved the stock. I telegraphed to Pittsburgh, stating the situation of affairs, and that we couldn't do anything at all without we had more protection, and Pittsburgh told me, after a bit, that more police were coming—that there would be fifteen of them. They had made a requisition, I understood, upon the mayor, and that fifteen police were to come up. They were to come up on the Atlantic express, I think. About the time the Atlantic express was due, I went out to where the engines were standing, and backed up against the stock. I didn't tell the crowd or any person that I had information of any assistance coming, but I just remarked to them that we proposed now to commence moving that stock, and that those who were in no way concerned with the railroad, or who had no interest in the matter, except as lookers-on—that I would take it as a favor if they would retire, and give us room to work. There was a large crowd there. Just at that time, this same man Hice called out, they are going to bring the militia—the Duquesne Grays. He immediately called out and said, I want four good men. They came up to him, and he said, I want you to go to Pittsburgh and get out two thousand mill men. Four young men started—a couple of them were, I think, our own men, and a couple were not in our service. I can't say who they were. One little thing occurred before this conversation with Hice—before the Atlantic express came. I had gone some distance east to the telegraph office, and I found Hice there, and I got into conversation again about it, and I told him: "Hice, be careful not to do anything you will be sorry for." He said it is a question of bread or blood, and said, if I go to the penitentiary I can get bread and water, and that is about all I can get now. I saw it was no use to talk to him, and I left him. When the express came along it didn't have the force on that I expected. It had some men, but not enough for the emergency. A great many men came up on the train. We found that we couldn't move the stock. Mr. Watt had come up, and I called his attention to the situation. I suggested that we should move some of the stock by deceiving the men. That I would get two engines, and say I couldn't move the stock, and I might as well go on back, and that under pretense of shifting the stock on to the siding he should get it past the crowd, and run it to some point on the road—to Spring Hill, and that there I would take it with those two engines, and that, in the meantime, if he couldn't do that, that I would couple to a train of cars that had been brought from Wilkinsburg in the morning, and take it as far as Spring Hill, and if the stock didn't come would take it on through. After we started from Torrens with the engines, I told the conductor and men what I wanted to do—to couple on to the train at Wilkinsburg. The men seemed to have a little fear that the crowd would overtake us before we could get the train out. However, I told them to hurry up, and I succeeded in getting it out. We took it on as far as Spring Hill, and, while the engines were taking fuel and water, I told them to remain until I came back and gave a signal, and I walked on to Walls to ascertain whether or not the stock was coming. When I got to Walls I learned from Mr. Watt the stock was coming. I then went back, and, when the stock arrived, coupled on, and sent it out. That was the last train moved, and it was done by deceiving the men. I then returned to Pittsburgh. It was pretty near night. I found the crowd at Torrens was indignant at us deceiving them in moving the stock. Some of the stock couldn't be moved, and had to be unloaded. I then came to Pittsburgh, and I found that while I had been away that they had a great deal of trouble in the Pittsburgh yard. But I don't know anything that occurred in Pittsburgh that day from the time I left until six or seven o'clock that night. But I remained there then all that night.

Q. As train master, tell us how the traffic on your road for the three months prior to June 1, compared with the traffic during the same time of the year previous?

A. I can give my impression, that it was very much below the corresponding period of the year previous. My impression is, it was below. Of course, in that, I may be mistaken.

A. Yes; our trade is peculiar. There are times when the through freight may be heavy, but at points east of Pittsburgh, the coal and other local business may be very light. We will start from Pittsburgh with an unusually heavy business, but it won't aggregate nearly as much when it arrives at Altoona, as on other occasions, when we start from Pittsburgh with a comparatively light business. I was present at the time of the firing of the troops, but about that, what I can say is about what Mr. King has said.

A. I was at Union depot when the troops arrived. I went to the outer depot, two blocks west of Twenty-eighth street. We kept ourselves advised by wire as to about the time the troops would move from Union depot to Twenty-eighth street. We were expecting that they would clear the track, and that then, if possible, we would get the trains started. We had a crew in readiness to go just as soon as they got protection enough to start. I remained on some gondolas there until the troops, with the Gatling gun, passed along up the track. Then I followed up. I didn't intend to go very close, but got much nearer than I had intended, and so got near enough to see the movements of the troops. I saw them form on Twenty-eighth street into what is called a square, and saw the confusion that Mr. King spoke about. I heard the shots very soon after that. I thought at first it was blank cartridges, but soon learned such was not the case.

A. I didn't see any myself. I saw them carrying people away very soon afterwards. I saw afterwards the man that Mr. King mentioned as having been hit in the face by a stone before the firing. While I was in the superintendent's office, after the firing, a report came that they were going to attack the arsenal, and also the superintendent's office. I afterwards went home and got my supper and returned. When returning, the mass of people at Twenty-eighth street was enormous. They were solid on both sides of the track. By the way, some soldiers were there, enough to keep the men off the track. I had intended to go up and walk to the superintendent's office, but found I couldn't do it with safety. I thought they possibly might want me, and I intended to go. I went to Union depot, and made an arrangement to get to the office. After that, I learned that the military had charge of everything. I staid at Union depot until ten o'clock, and left on the last train that went out. That was on Saturday night. About three or four o'clock in the morning I was awakened by a great deal of noise and hallowing, and saw a great many roughs passing my place, and heard wagons passing.

A. Yes; various wagons went past my house. It was three or four o'clock in the morning. It was getting daylight; and during all that day the people were carrying plunder past our house; and those same wagons returned during the afternoon loaded. I remained at home on Sunday, for the reason that they said they were going to commence at East Liberty and burn everything to Pittsburgh, and I thought that possibly my house might be burned.

Q. If you had succeeded in starting a train from Pittsburgh, would it have been able to get ten miles away.

A. All the trains that we started previous to, say, nine or nine and a half o'clock on Thursday, went through—went through all right.

Q. During this time, before the military arrived, was there any considerable effort made on the part of the police to protect you and your men and property?

A. I cannot say that I ever saw a dozen. A small force of police were brought to the outer depot on Thursday, but it was after I had gone to Torrens, and I remained away the remainder of the day. It was after the time that we were trying to get out another train, when the men refused to let it go, and when Mr. Watt was struck.

Q. Up to Saturday night, any train that could have been started would have gone through to its destination?

A. No; only on Thursday. After Thursday, I think, no freight train could have gone through, because all the trains were stopped; and even the passenger trains were stopped at East Liberty and Lawrenceville.

Q. From the information that the railroad authorities had, they could not have run trains through to their destination?

A. I don't think so, after Thursday. The men allowed our trains to come west, but as fast as they came west they prevented them from going east.

Pursuant to adjournment the committee re-assembled at ten o'clock, A.M., this day, and continued the taking of testimony.

Q. Had you any communication with the mayor on that day with reference to the disturbance of the peace?

A. A little after eleven o'clock on Thursday, the 19th day of July, Mr. Watt came to the mayor's office and had a conversation with the mayor, and after he was through the mayor called me in. It was my week in the office. We took our turns in the office. He instructed me to gather what men I could find and go out to Twenty-eighth street—that there was some trouble with the railroad employés out there on account of a strike. The week before that our police force had been reduced from two hundred and thirty-six men to one hundred and twenty, I think. That left us without any men in the day time at all, except six men that were employed in the office as detectives, and one man on Fifth street, and two specials, I believe; but on this day it happened that the men that had been dropped from the rolls were in the City hall for the purpose of getting their money. I told the mayor that I could not get a sufficient number of men to go out there to amount to anything, if there was any serious trouble, but that a number of these men were there, and that I could raise a squad from them if necessary. So failing to find the necessary number of our men—who were in bed at this time because they were on duty at night—I gathered ten men belonging to the force that had been dropped, and started out to the Union depot. Mr. Watt met us there and took us out to the crossing at Twenty-eighth street. He had some two or three of his own men there. When I got out there he told me what we were brought there for—that there was a strike in progress, and he anticipated some trouble with the employés—that is they would likely resist the running of trains. We were moved out to Twenty-eighth street, and at Twenty-eighth street, or a little this side of the street—that is, west—there is a switch. He told me he was going to move the trains, and I sent the men to protect those switches, and to see they were not interfered with by the strikers. I divided the men into two squads, and sent one squad to the western switch and took charge of the other myself.

A. Five; I had ten men and myself. Quite a number of the people there were boys, and there didn't appear to be much excitement just then.

A. One I recollect now. I knew him to be a railroad man. I had a conversation with him. It was Samuel Muckle. I talked with him. The leading men of them seemed to be disposed to keep the peace. They didn't want any trouble with the police. We didn't anticipate much trouble then.

A. One hundred were there, but a number of those were spectators, who had just come from curiosity.

A. I can only judge of the number actively engaged in the strike, from the number of persons that interfered with the first arrest that we made. That occurred when Mr. Watt attempted to open the switch to let the train out. That is where the first trouble commenced. As soon as he did that, a man named McCall, and another man named Davis, both of whom have been tried in the courts since—they jumped on to the switch, and one of them struck Mr. Watt. When I saw that, I was at the other switch. I ran down, and after considerable trouble, we succeeded in arresting McCall and in taking him down to the watch-house. Then probably there were fifteen or twenty persons that appeared to take an active part in preventing McCall from being arrested. They seemed to be very anxious to have us let him go. There were a number of stones thrown, and some of my officers were hit. I saw a number of stones thrown, and it was principally the work of boys. The railroad men wanted to persuade us to let him go, but we finally got him down to the watch-house. He resisted very stoutly. None of the railroad men attempted to use violence at that time.

A. Mr. Watt left then and went to get more men. Along about one o'clock, I judge, there were some five or six men came, in charge of officer White, of the mayor's force, and went on out to East Liberty, and my impression is that Mr. Watt went with them.

A. Five or six men—also men dropped from the rolls. Then three or four—probably more—there may have been ten—came to my assistance and remained with me at the crossing.

A. Until about three o'clock. In the meantime there did not appear to be any effort made on the part of the railroad authorities to move any more trains after this assault at the switch, and my impression was at the time that they had given the matter up just then. There seemed to be a general disposition on the part of the railroad employés—the men not on strike—to rest easy, as it were. They didn't want to work. I heard the men talking with each other. They did not appear to make any effort to work. Those not engaged in the strike actively—they seemed to be in sympathy with those in the strike.

Q. What was the condition of the crowd there from one o'clock up to three o'clock?

A. There was no trouble there after this assault on Mr. Watt, because no effort was made on the part of the railroad officials to run out trains.

A. I telegraphed to the chief, in town, from the Twelfth ward station, that things were at a stand-still; that there was no attempt on the part of the railroad men to run out trains, and that the men were still stationed at the crossing, and he instructed me to place the men in charge of officer Fowler, and to come in to the central office. I did so after three o'clock.

A. I do not think the mayor was present at that time. It was in regard to what I was going out there for. He told me a few of the men were on a strike, and that they would probably undertake to interfere with the running of the trains, but he did not anticipate any serious trouble. He thought that a few men would be sufficient. He did not think it would amount to anything, and said that the presence of a few men would stop the whole thing. He looked on it very lightly at that time.

A. He told me to get as many men as I could get. He meant the office men. But they were only on duty at night, and at this time none of them were about except the chief of detectives, Mr. O'Mara, who was busy, I believe. I so reported to the mayor. I told him I could get a number of the men who were dropped from the rolls. He told me to go ahead and get them.

A. I thought that would be a sufficient number on account of what Mr. Watt had told me.

A. Yes; I did get more afterwards. I think ten more came out. Of course we could not get those men and bring them into service as our men in actual service, because those men had been dropped from the rolls, and it was only those willing to go on duty or not.

Q. When you got to Twenty-eighth street, how many men were engaged there then in preventing the trains from moving?

A. The first intimation I had of any men, who were going to prevent trains from running, was when Mr. Watt was assaulted, and then I should judge that those men actively engaged, numbered, probably, ten or fifteen—that seemed to be the leaders.

A. I suppose ten or fifteen of those men gathered around us, and wanted us to let him go.

A. They did not use any violence at all. McCall appealed to them, and asked them not to allow him to be arrested, that they were there for the purpose of preventing the trains from running, and that they were not surely going to allow him to go to the watch-house, but there was not a man of them that attempted to interfere with the officers. The only interference was some stones thrown from the hill-side around. I saw some of them thrown, and most of them by boys.

Q. I understand, after you returned from the lock-up, you found the crowd still assembled at Twenty-eighth street?

A. It was increased then, I estimate, to about the number of two hundred people, women, and children, and boys, and men.

A. They were just standing around there chatting and talking among themselves. The excitement was still increasing.

A. When those men came from the office—the second force—Mr. Watt went up to Torren's station. I believe there was no person there that appeared to make any effort to do anything. Mr. Fox, the chief of the Pennsylvania railroad police was there, and I was under his instructions to do anything he wanted done. From that time, until I left, no effort was made on their part to run out trains east. There was an attempt made after I left to run trains out, but of course I did not see that.

A. We undertook to keep the crowd off the tracks, but our force was not sufficient. As soon as we would get one track cleared, they would come in on the other. It would have required at two or three o'clock—it would have required a hundred men to clear the tracks, and do it effectually, and I did not have the necessary force to do it with. They appeared to loiter around there talking, and the crowd kept on increasing.

Q. Did you get any further instructions after you returned to the city and reported to the chief of police?

A. I got no further instructions, I remember, from the chief; he instructed me to turn the force over to officer Fowler, and report at the city hall.

Q. Do you know, of your own knowledge, what were the movements of the police force there during the balance of the day?

A. During the balance of the day the force was increased to, I think, at Twenty-eighth street, thirty men—twenty-five or thirty men—during the evening. They remained on duty all night.

Q. Was there any effort made to run out trains during the afternoon of Thursday?

A. I went through it all, backward and forward, around the city, in the capacity of an officer.

Q. Were the police, to your knowledge, reinforced in the morning of the 20th—Friday morning.

A. No, sir; the police force was not reinforced until Tuesday morning—the following Tuesday—that is, were not organized. Then the regular force was filled up and organized by the committee of safety. But a number of the men who were called on on Monday and Sunday responded. But the regular organization did not take place until Tuesday.

Q. Was there any difficulty, so far as you know, in reinforcing the police force?

A. I know, from my own experience, that there was considerable difficulty in bringing the men dropped from the rolls when there was no trouble,—in bringing them to the front after the trouble commenced. A great many of them objected to going on duty.

A. I suppose they looked on it in this way. I inferred this from the tone of their conversation—that they were discharged—that the councils had thought proper to dispense with their services when there was no trouble, and that, when they were in trouble they did not propose to put their heads into the halter. I know one of them left my squad—or two of them. One of them did not reflect that he might be taken to where he would get hurt or get hit with a stone. He left and the other left.

A. They had been dropped from the rolls the week previous. They were not bound in any way to the city.

A. No, sir; I simply told them. Those that wanted to go, fell into line, and marched out as volunteers.

A. Yes; the same as any other citizens. They were not under pay—not under pay at all.

A. He did not think of it, and I did not either. I thought that the presence, as Mr. Watt told me—that the presence of five or six men would have the desired effect.

Q. Do you know of an order, given by the mayor to his officers, to compel men to serve on the police force, during those troubles?

A. I do not know of any order of that kind. I know of orders given by the mayor to summon all the men that had been dropped from the rolls, and to get them organized with the men we had, and go on duty. A number of them responded. That was on Sunday.

Q. Did you state to them anything about their pay—as to how they would be paid?

A. I do not know as I stated anything to them probably the first day, but the understanding was after they got out there that Mr. Watt was responsible for the pay of these men.

Q. The mayor did not make any call on the night police to go out there at all on Thursday?

A. There was no apparent necessity at that time. The night force went on duty on Friday night, and they remained on duty in and around the city hall until the trouble was all over.

A. I think they were on duty from Friday night until the trouble was all over. That is my impression. I cannot be positive, however.

Q. Were any of that number detailed to go to the depot or to that section of the city?

A. The men were on duty continually Friday, and on Saturday all the men were out.

A. In the neighborhood of Twenty-eighth street, and along where the trouble was.

Q. When you talked with those men, what reason did they give you. You have said you talked with one?

A. They assigned as a reason for striking that it was on account of the double-headers, slim pay, and so forth. That the men were starving, and all that kind of thing, and that now they proposed to reduce the force, and compel one crew to run two trains, and they did not propose to do it. Various reasons were assigned.

A. He did not. He and a number of the others had considerable influence over the men, and no violence was to be used at all. It seemed that the men not in the strike were in sympathy with those that were, and that no trains would be run out.

Q. How many men were arrested in that crowd on Thursday in the vicinity of the trouble?

A. McCall was the only one I arrested. I left about three o'clock. While I was there no other act was committed by any person in the party, and no effort was made by the railroad to run out trains, and we were simply there under the instruction of the railroad men.

A. On Friday morning, I think, the military was out with the sheriff and his posse.

A. On Saturday, no, not on Saturday. The military were in charge of the railroad property on Saturday.

Q. Did you or any other officer that you know of have a warrant in his hands for the arrest of some ten or twelve men?

A. Yes; I had a warrant for the arrest of ten or twelve men that were interfering with the railroad employés.

A. Not the warrants; but I was notified by the mayor that the information was taken from the office, and that the matter was placed in the hands of the sheriff.

A. The warrants were null and void then when the information was taken away. The warrants were transferred to the sheriff.

A. Well, Davis jumped on the switch, and swore that no trains should go out, that he would die in his tracks first. Those were the only threats I heard on Thursday.

Q. Do you know anybody going to the officers of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, and advising them to leave the city for fear that they would suffer violence?

Q. When did you first get the warrants for the arrest of those men—what day was it?

A. It seems to me the warrants were issued on Thursday afternoon or Friday morning, but I am not positive about that. I can refer to the warrants and see.

Q. How long did you hold them before you got notice that the information was withdrawn.

A. I think the warrants were held by me—I am not positive about the time that they were issued to me—but it seems to me that the warrants were in my hands; just one day and night.

A. My instructions were to quietly take those men up. They were my instructions. At the time the warrants were issued there was considerable excitement, and the instructions I got in relation to it were that after the excitement allayed somewhat, the warrants could be quietly served without bringing about a conflict, and owing to the pretty slim police force, it was considered wise to wait until the trouble would be over.

A. The mayor—the chief of detectives, I think it was. I do not say the mayor, but one of my superior officers, I know it was.

Q. And not to go after your men that night after the men had retired to their homes, and take them up quietly, and take them to the station house?

A. My impression is, that the men did not retire to their homes on that day or night; the crowd kept there all night, or staid around the tracks at Twenty-eighth street, and also at Torrens station.

A. Those men I had warrants for were employés of the road, and I did not know anything about their being in any crowd, but it appears they were active leaders. I did not know they were in any crowd, but owing to the state of excitement at the time, it was considered advisable to wait until the excitement was allayed before arresting those men.

A. I think it was Mr. Watt. That is my impression. The information was drawn by Messrs. Hampton and Dalzell, and sworn to by Mr. Watt.

A. The first knowledge I had, Mr. Watt came to the mayor's office that morning. I was in the office at the time. He stated that there was a disturbance, that the men were on a strike, and he wanted to get some officers to go out with him. Our force was reduced shortly before that, and no men were on duty in the day time. We only had one hundred and twenty men, and ten were lamp watchers, and ten were at the station-houses. One hundred and one in all were left for police duty.

A. I asked Mr. Watt how many men he thought would do, and he said about ten men. I had the men gathered up from those men who were dropped from the rolls, and brought them in there, and told Officer Fowler to take charge of them, and to go with Mr. Watt. I afterwards asked the mayor, and he told me that Mr. McGovern should be placed in charge. I then sent him on up.

A. I do not know. I told him these men are not on the force, but we could gather them up if he agreed to pay them.

Q. State what occurred from the time that they went away—whether any report was made to you or not?

A. I understood about the trouble. McGovern told me about arresting this party after he came back.

A. He told me he had arrested that party—that Mr. Watt went to turn the switch, and somebody hit him, and he arrested him, and put him in the Twelfth ward station-house. Information was afterwards made against some ten parties.

A. They were given to me first. A lawyer in Mr. Hampton's office was here. He had them drawn up. I gave the warrants to McGovern. On account of the excitement we proposed to locate the parties in their houses, and to get them there. But the next morning a young man in Hampton's office came in and told me not to make the arrests until further orders. I thought then that the men were going to work, perhaps. I then told McGovern not to make the arrests.

Q. Do you state you told McGovern not to arrest the men, but to get them at their houses?

Q. How many policemen do you think you could have gathered up that afternoon for duty?

A. I have no idea how many. A good many of them were about there just at the time that Mr. Watt came in and said he wanted some. We might have gotten thirty then. More went out afterwards.

A. I do not know. But I understood, however, more men were wanted, and they were sent out.

Q. These men that were picked up—these men that had been dropped from the rolls, did they go out on the ground in uniform, or did they go out in citizen's dress?

A. I guess some in uniform and some in citizen's dress. I cannot say whether they were in uniform or not.

A. Yes; but these men were not on the rolls, and I just gathered them up, and sent them out as quickly as possible.

A. I suppose about ten men were on in that district—the third district—from the Union depot to Twenty-eighth street. The lieutenant in charge of the district may have had his men there.

A. I was out there on Sunday morning early, along the line on Liberty street. There was a good deal of trouble about the city, and we were gathering the police in and sending them out throughout the city. We were afraid that the mob would break into the gun shops. The excitement was so great that I thought they might attempt to break into places, and so I gathered the men up and sent them to different places.

Q. If the mayor had made a call for policemen on Thursday afternoon, how many men could he have raised?

Q. Would there have been any difficulty in raising any number of policemen, do you think?

A. There might have been some. That call was made through the Sunday papers, and a good many responded.

A. The whole force was one hundred and twenty men—nine of them were engaged in the station-houses, and ten of them watched lamps—patrolmen, detectives, and all. That was for the whole city.

A. One hundred and sixteen men were discharged. Our whole force consisted of two hundred and thirty-six men, all told. The appropriation ran out, and we had to knock the men off.

Q. What reason was given by the officer for not serving the warrants? He had them one night, had he not?

A. We did not get the houses all located. It seems they were out that night, and we could not get them served, and the next morning we were ordered not to serve them. The case was put into the hands of the sheriff on Friday, I think.

Q. While you had those warrants for the arrest of those ten men, could you not have arrested them?

A. I do not think, with the few men we could have got, that we could have arrested them out there, on account of those men out there. It might have made the thing worse if we had attempted to arrest them on the ground. I thought it was better to arrest them away from there.

Q. Did you attempt to locate them at their homes that night—you did not go to their homes?

A. No; we did not go to their homes, but we got information from the parties who made the information.

A. From all accounts, the men seemed to be in the crowd. We had no one watching their houses that night, because we did not find out that night were they all lived.

Q. How did you expect to know that these men went to their homes, if you did not follow them or have them watched?

A. We asked the parties who made the information. We wanted to locate them all, and to make the arrests. We did not expect to arrest them in the crowd. We thought we could not do it there.

A. Several of the officers there saw the different parties, and what they did. Or, if information was made against them, we had them arrested and tried. Some of them are not tried yet. Any of the officers who knew any men, or saw them do anything, afterwards made information against them.

Q. You being the chief of detectives, did you send any men out to spot those parties?

A. No, sir; after Friday, the thing was taken out of our hands. If any party gave information in regard to what was done, we would have them arrested. The detectives were out. We made inquiries of people as to what they saw other people do.

Q. Was it not on Saturday morning that you considered the complaint withdrawn upon which the warrants were based?

A. I think on Friday, it was, that I was notified to hold them until further orders.

Q. Were you present at any time during the destruction of the property of the railroad company by fire?

A. I was along the line Sunday morning, in Liberty street. I drove along with the mayor in a buggy. My mother and sister both lived back of the Union depot, and they were burned out. I tried to help them get their things away.

Q. During the fire, were you ever called on by the chief of the fire department, or by anybody connected with the fire department, to protect them in their attempts to put out the fire?

Q. Do you know of any other officer of the police force being called upon to assist them?

A. We could not do anything after the first firing was done. With what police force we had, we could do nothing at all. They commenced breaking into houses, and gun stores, &c., and we tried to prevent them from doing that.

A. Yes; on Penn street I saw a couple of men breaking into a pawn shop. I heard of the mob coming, and I hurried up the officers, and placed men in front of different gun stores, but on Wood street they got into one in spite of the men. Before that, we had notified the different parties to put their guns away, that the excitement was very great, and that the soldiers had fired upon the men, and that they would be apt to break into places to try to get arms. I notified the different parties to put their goods away that the mob should not get them.

A. They seemed to be working men—men that came from the south side. One squad that came from the south side—I saw them going down the street—a couple of young men—the same that I saw marching down Penn street. Some of them have been arrested since.

Q. You think the men were principally from the south side who broke into the gun stores?

A. About the time that they broke into them, at different places, I had squads of men. On Fifth street a couple of young men came down firing off guns, and I went to the mayor's office for more men, and I was not there two minutes when word came that Brown's gun store was broke into. I then got some men and placed them in front of the door.

A. Yes; but it was not much good then, for the things were gone. They had ransacked the place.

A. It was on Saturday night. It was just about dusk when this party came down, and went in on Liberty street and on Penn street. I was going up that way towards Twenty-eighth street, when I saw this mob coming down. I followed on down to see what they proposed to do.

Q. You had no men stationed about any of these gun stores before they broke into them?

A. Yes; on the regular city force. I sent them to the places where I thought they were most needed, and I tried to prevent the mob from getting fire-arms.

A. No; just a few of them had vests on with uniform buttons on. And all of them that had badges about them, I had them place them on their coats in order to show that they were officers.

A. I think there were. Some of them did not happen to have anything with which to show that they were officers.

A. No; they were taken out in a hurry from the city hall—just taken out on the spur of the moment.

Q. What time were those warrants placed in your hands for the arrest of those parties?

A. My recollection of the warrants—I could very easily give you a definite answer if I had time to go to the office and refer to my memoranda. Then I could tell you. But I think it was Friday. That is my impression. I think it was Friday morning or Thursday afternoon.

A. We were so busy on other matters that there was no effort made, any more than to make inquiries and locating the parties. We did not anticipate any trouble in getting them after the excitement was somewhat allayed.

A. No; I cannot say that I did, because it was a secondary consideration in regard to those men. The information was interfering with railroad employés, and we considered it a light matter towards what was going on at Twenty-eighth street—the riotous proceedings. We were kept busy that day and night trying to keep order.

Q. Those men were all participating in the riot as leaders when you first went out there?

A. I do not know that of my own knowledge, but I, of course, inferred it from the fact of the information made against them.

Q. Did you know any of the ten or twelve men that stood around, trying to prevent the arrest of McCall?

A. None of them tried to prevent the arrest of McCall. I knew some of them by face and a few by name.

A. Not immediately. It was considered a matter of judgment at the office by the mayor, and, of course, I was under his instructions.

A. Not specially his instructions, but chief O'Mara's instructions. I considered it would be easier to serve them afterwards than at the present time.

Q. When you summoned those men to go out, you did not provide them with maces and equipments as you usually do?

A. The police force of this city provide everything for themselves. If they want to carry a pistol, they must provide it. Our maces we buy, and our clothes we buy. The city supplies nothing. At one time the city supplied those things, but now we have got to supply all those things ourselves. We did not think it would be necessary to have them armed at that time.

Q. At the time of a row, if the men are armed, it is all right, and if they are not armed, it is all right, too?

A. It was a sudden summons, and nobody understood the extent of it. Of course, the gentleman who summoned us, said he did not anticipate any serious trouble at all; that he thought that our official appearance would be sufficient; that the presence of the officers there would be all that was necessary.

Q. But you, as an officer, did not exactly believe in official appearance, without something to knock down with in case of a row?

A. In case of a riot we ought to be provided with arms; but there was no riot at that time, nor did we anticipate any.

Q. State whether this is the information made upon which the warrants were issued?

A. No; they are still in the closet at the office. I think they are there yet. I may have destroyed them.

A. I cannot remember the date. I told you I thought it was Thursday evening or Friday; that would be the 19th or 20th.

A. We got a second dispatch, or rather a young man came from the ticket office asking for fifty men. I was present in the office at the time.

A. To the mayor. I started out and hunted up all the men I could find, and during my progress I saw the mayor, and he gave me orders to hunt up all the men I could, both the old men and the men that had been dropped. I met him on Fifth avenue.

A. In the neighborhood of twenty-five or twenty-eight that afternoon. I can not say exactly.

A. Some went out on a train, and some walked out. I went out with one squad, with Mr. White. We saw Mr. Watt, and he suggested the sending of the men to Torrens station, six or eight of them; the balance of them stayed at Twenty-eighth street.

A. I suppose five minutes after the dispatch came. I started out and went down to the station-house to see if any officers were there, but I found none there. I then went two squares, and on my way coming back, I met the mayor on Fifth avenue. It was not over five or ten minutes.

A. As I stated before, I went to Twenty-eighth street, and stayed there all that afternoon.

A. No; everything was quiet at Twenty-eighth street that afternoon. My instructions were to communicate if anything was wrong. I went to Torrens station about four o'clock. Quite a crowd was there.

A. They started out, and three or four officers were put on the engine. After they started, some parties got on the track and waved their hands, and the engine stopped and the engineer jumped off. The officers were still on the engine after the engineer got off.

A. The mayor instructed me to hunt up all the men I could find, both the men on duty and the men dropped, and I did so.

A. Those that I found. At that time we only had one hundred and twenty men, including lamp-washers and station-house keepers.

A. To my best recollection, five or six, but I won't be positive. I only sent in the bill for the men not on regular duty—twenty-nine the company paid for—for those men on duty we sent in no bill at all. It was only for the men not paid by the city.

A. Until morning. They reported at the office between seven and seven and a half o'clock.

A. They were sent out to the depot in the morning, but they came back and said they were not wanted, that Officer Fox had all the men he wanted.

A. Officer William Johnson. Several of them, I think. Officer Crosby. The men came back and they said that they were not wanted. He kept three at the depot, M. A. Davis, Matthew Goddard, and Ernest Ehring.

A. When I came back in the evening, about seven o'clock, I brought the men to supper, and after they had supper, I sent them out again, and I went to the office. I am not positive whether I saw the mayor there or not. I am not positive about that. The next time I saw him, was in the neighborhood of twelve o'clock, at the office.

Q. Did the mayor have any communication with the men out there during the night?

Q. You say you sent the men back on Friday. Where did you instruct them to go—to the Union depot or to Twenty-eighth street?

A. To the Union depot. I directed them to ask if they were wanted, and they came back and said that they were told that they were not wanted; that they had all the men they wanted.

A. I cannot answer that, because I was at Twenty-eighth street, almost all day on Friday. My instructions were to go there, and if I saw a disturbance, to telegraph immediately to the city to the office.

Q. While you were there, on Friday, did you see any effort made to take possession of the tracks?

A. Quite a crowd was gathered there. They appeared to be going and coming all day.

A. I suppose I was there three quarters of the day—walking all along, and seeing what was going on.

Q. State whether any knowledge was brought to you in regard to the disturbance at Twenty-eighth street, on the 19th of July, and if so, state what time it was.

A. I came to the office sometime after dinner, and went into the mayor's office, and I was told that some of the railroad employés had gone on a strike at about Twenty-eighth street, and that Mr. Watt had sent for some policemen, and that about ten or a dozen had been sent out in charge of Detective McGovern. A short time after a dispatch came in signed by Mr. Watt, asking for fifty more men. I went on the street myself then. Our police force, of course, was in bed. They did duty at night. I went on the street, and saw a few of those discharged men, and asked them to go. Some went and some did not. I did not hear anything more of it until evening, when I came in from supper. They reported then that one man had been arrested, and after that everything was quiet. The men got their suppers, and we sent them out again. There were only a few that would not go. In the morning they came back—those who were on duty all night—and some of them said that the railroad officers had got as many men as they thought sufficient, and that the military was called out. It was thought at the mayor's office then that the services of the police would not be needed any longer.

A. I believe he came in before the rest came for supper, and reported this disturbance—about a man being arrested for striking Mr. Watt, and he then reported all quiet after that.

A. No; yes—I believe they did telegraph this arrest first from the Twelfth ward station.

Q. You have arrangements at the station-house to receive reports from all parts of the city, have you not?

A. Yes, sir; there is a station-house within two blocks of Twenty-eighth street.

Q. Was there a dispatch sent you, or communicated to you from Mr. Watt during the afternoon, that he wanted fifty more men?

A. I do not remember—perhaps an hour after the first squad of police went out.

A. I stated that before. I went out on the street, and saw some of the discharged men.

A. No, sir; I did not raise twenty men. I did not raise seven men, no more than that.

A. I simply went on the street, and around Fifth avenue and Smithfield street, and asked these men if they would go.

A. I do not know. That was one objection with these men. They wanted to know about their pay, and whether it was going to be a regular thing. I could not satisfy them about that, and they did not care much about going.

Q. You just went around and hunted up the men that would go voluntarily of their own accord?

A. Yes; after getting this report from the Twelfth ward station-house. We thought that fifty men would hardly be necessary anyhow; but we could not have raised them if we had wanted them.

A. Well, we had a reduction of our force a short time before, and some of these men thought that they were not treated right, and when I asked them to go out, they wanted to know if they would be placed on the force permanently. Of course I could not satisfy them, and they did not want to go.

A. I saw the firemen only on Sunday, and it was understood then that the mob would not allow them to put water on the property.

A. I do not know that they did. I was out there with the mayor, and we had too few men. The firemen would change their place time after time as the fire came down. A man came and said that they wanted to throw water on the fire, indicating a car burning, and the mayor said: "All right, we will protect you." We immediately formed the men to protect them, but afterwards they did not throw water on that fire at all.

A. I went to him during Thursday night to place one of our lieutenants in charge over the force at Twenty-eighth street—Lieutenant Coates. It was his suggestion, I believe.

Q. Did you receive any instructions from him during the day in regard to this disturbance at Twenty-eighth street?

A. No; there was no disturbance there during that day. There was a crowd there, and the military were there.

A. On Saturday he was in the office. In and out as usual. At the time we got the report of the firing he was in the office, I know, because he sent for me and asked me to take a couple of men out Penn avenue, and close all the saloons in the vicinity of this disturbance.

Q. Four o'clock on Saturday he asked you to take two men out and close all the saloons in what district?

A. Over the city in the vicinity of Twenty-eighth street. We closed all the saloons there from Thirtieth to Twenty-fourth street. We then came in and sent another squad out to close the balance.

Q. Had you received any instructions from him during the day, (Saturday before this,) in regard to the disturbance out there?

A. I can't tell. It was immediately after hearing of the firing. We walked up Liberty street as fast as we could.

A. We went in and asked these men, and told them it was the request of the mayor to have them close their saloons.

A. No; except I was out with him at the scene of action in the afternoon. The mayor was out there before daylight, and I was out there myself. I came in about six or seven o'clock, and got my breakfast, and went out at ten o'clock, and then I found the mayor there.

A. Nothing, except about handling the police, in trying to prevent the mob getting into those stores.

A. They called some of the south side police over, and had them doing duty around in places where they anticipated there might be a break made, but there was considerable damage done before the police arrived.

A. The one on Penn avenue was a pawnbroker's and the one on Liberty street was a gun shop.

A. Since then I know of one party that was a leader in it. But I do not know the others.

A. No; at that time there were no police on duty. They didn't go on duty until eight o'clock.

Q. When did the mayor put on any day force, or was there any day force on Sunday?

A. On Saturday night I put a notice, by the order of the mayor, into two of the Sunday papers, to have all those ex-policemen report at eleven o'clock on Sunday, but got very few reports.

A. I do not remember now—not probably over fifteen or twenty reported in time.

A. Well, the third district had some of the south side police on duty on Sunday night, in the vicinity of Twenty-eighth street, and the police there I brought in on Sunday morning, and got their breakfasts, and sent them out again. Some of them strayed off, of course.

Q. As chief of police, can you not give us the number of policemen on duty during Sunday, in the whole city?

A. I do not think there were more than eighty. That is, we got more men on as it grew later in the day.

Q. This notice you placed in the papers was merely a request for the discharged police force to report at eleven o'clock?

A. Yes; I had the orders, and I think the mayor had consulted with the committee of safety, or some one who assured him they would be responsible for the pay of the police, and would see that the police stayed on.

A. I had all the old force, and I expect, perhaps, about forty or fifty of the discharged men.

Q. That would make about one hundred and forty or one hundred and fifty men during Sunday night?

A. Well, those policemen came reporting in one after another from Sunday until Tuesday, and they never went off duty at anytime from Sunday night, from the time they went on, until about Wednesday, I guess.

A. All he could to prevent the depredations. He was with the police; but we could not do anything. He went to Union depot and made a speech to the mob; but that did not have any effect. They stoned him, and he had to get out.

A. I do not have any distinct recollection of any time that day. It was, perhaps, half an hour previous to the burning of Union depot.

Q. How many men were engaged in burning cars, or in the actual destruction of property there, during Sunday?

A. That is a hard matter for me to say. The track in some places—I suppose there are three or four or five rows—and the freight cars were packed in alongside of one another, and on the top of those cars and in between them, there was a crowd of people all the time. Some of them may not have had a hand in doing any damage, but I think that most everybody that was on the track—of course there were some spectators that didn't have any hand in it—but the majority of the people there would break open a car or gut a car whenever they could. I could not say how many, but a great many, three hundred or four hundred anyhow.

Q. As chief of police, I ask you if you do not think you could have taken one hundred policemen, with their maces, or the weapons that they usually carry, and have thrown them across the track there, and driven back that crowd?

A. Because the crowd was on all sides, and I would not know how to form the men to do that to have a solid line. The crowd was along the track and in between the cars as much as five hundred or six hundred yards at a time, and they would come rushing in and yelling every way, from below and above.

Q. I ask you if, in your judgment, you do not think that you could have taken one hundred policemen and stationed them across the track in front of Union depot, from the hill down to the block of buildings, and have driven back the crowd as they came up?

A. If I had had one hundred men there that might have been accomplished. I did try it with what men I had.

A. Not more than fifteen or sixteen together at one time. The policemen, of course, got around among the people, or the mob, and we could not find them.

A. I could not keep them together. In order to get at the men, the policemen would have to divide, and it was such a big mob, we could not keep them together.

Q. Could you not have formed at some cross street, say Fifteenth or Sixteenth street, and then have resisted the crowd and kept them back?

Q. But Sixteenth street runs up to the railroad. Now, could you not have formed the men at Sixteenth street and thrown them across the railroad, with one wing running out towards the hill, and then have kept the crowd back?

A. No; because you could not have got the mob together at any one point—because the mob most all the time extended five hundred or six hundred yards.

Q. Was any effort made at all to get control of this crowd at any time during the disturbance?

A. Sometimes we had twenty—all the men we had, or that could be got together—perhaps, sometimes, twenty-five or thirty men. They would be getting in among the mob and trying to drive them back.

Q. Had the police authorities no organization or no arrangement to keep the crowd from coming, or did they allow people to come from all directions when they knew a disturbance of this kind was going on—did you have any organization at all?

A. Not a very good organization. The men went out there in the morning, and they had been up all night, and they were tired, and it would have been impossible to keep the crowd back. They flocked in from all parts of the city, and from the country for miles around.

A. When I went up there, our men were scattered. I took them on the railroad several times, but was unable to do any good. I took them on the railroad in a body, but they could not be kept there any time without being separated.

Q. Was any effort made to make any arrests, during this disturbance, of parties engaged in the riot?

A. On Sunday morning, we arrested about one hundred and thirty—that was the beginning of the fire—when they began to pillage the freight cars.

A. We brought them down in the morning, in the "black maria," to the Central station, but Deputy Mayor Butler, I believe, discharged most of them, and fined some of them.

A. Yes. We put them in the Twelfth Ward station, and then put them in the "black maria," and brought them to the Central station, and heard them there. Mayor McCarthy was up all night, and he was tired, and he deputized Deputy Mayor Butler to hear them.

Q. Do you know whether those people were citizens of Pittsburgh, or people that had just run in?

Q. Did the mayor or anybody else say to you, at any time, that it was necessary for the railroad officials to get out of town—that their lives were in jeopardy.

Q. That it was necessary for the railroad officials to get out of town—that their lives were in jeopardy? Was that said to you by the mayor or by anybody else?

A. I am satisfied that I didn't hear any expression like that coming from the mayor, but I heard talk like that on the street.

A. Most any of the crowd that would be congregated together would be talking about this thing.

A. Not now. It was the general talk. General Pearson, I guess, was named in such talk more often than the railroad officers.

Q. One question about this plundering and thieving: Were those parties discharged the same day that they were arrested—on Sunday?

A. Yes; except in saving the property of the company, or whoever it belonged to.

Q. Was the mayor present when you offered protection to the firemen, at the fire engine, when they proposed to throw water on those burning cars?

A. Yes; the mayor was present. One of the firemen asked him, if he would protect them, and he said yes, and the fireman said, that is what we want. Then they made the attachment, but did not throw any water afterward on the fire.

Q. Did they make any proposal to the mayor, to take an active part himself—to hold the nozzle?

Q. But when you gave them the protection they asked, did they not make an effort to throw the water?

A. Not during that day. They did attempt to during that night and also during Sunday night.

A. The American house, I think, or some place near it, was gutted, but by that time we had a pretty good force, and we went there and drove them away and arrested some of them.

Q. After the railroad property was destroyed—by that time you had a pretty good police force?

Q. Have you a police commission or police committee, that have any special duty in taking charge of the police or in regulating the police?

Pursuant to adjournment, the committee re-assembled at three o'clock, P.M., this day, and continued the taking of testimony.

Q. What knowledge had you on Thursday of any disturbance among the railroad employés?

A. I think my first knowledge was on Wednesday, but to get at the data I would request to send for the information made against Thomas McCall.

A. Yes. On Thursday, the 19th, Mr. Watt came into the office, and asked for a number of policemen. As to the exact number I don't know, I didn't exactly hear the number, but I understood he wanted ten policemen to go out on the Pennsylvania railroad. The mayor went out with me to the chief of detectives, and they got a number of policemen, and arranged them up in line, and I think I asked Mr. Watt how many he wanted, and he said ten. One or more of them then stepped out of the ranks. Ten policemen went out, I believe, to the railroad. About twelve o'clock of that day we received a telegram, asking, I think, for fifty policemen additional.

A. To the best of my recollection the telegram was from Mr. Watt. I immediately went out and hunted some of the policemen who had been discharged—I hunted them up, and several of the officers went out and hunted them up. I notified a number myself to report at the office for duty at the Pennsylvania Railroad Company's depot. How many reported I don't know. It not being my special duty, I paid no attention to it. But I know a number of them reported. Where they went to I don't know personally. About four o'clock that evening, the mayor asked me if there was any news from the Twelfth ward. I told him I could telegraph to the Twelfth ward and see. We did so, and the report came from the station that all was quiet.

A. Yes; the mayor then left the office to go to Castle Shannon where his family is, as I believed, for the night. About that time—about five o'clock, Mr. Watt came in and asked for from fifty to a hundred additional policemen. I told him I didn't know where we could get them—that all we had for effective duty was ninety men, and, in the absence of the mayor, I couldn't take away the policemen from all portions of the city, for the purpose of protecting the property of the railroad company. Mr. Watt said to me, what will I do. I said, I don't know—the only thing—if you have a fear of any danger to your property—you had better call upon the sheriff, and the sheriff can call a posse comitatus to protect the property if there is any danger. Mr. Watt said he would do so. That is the last I saw of him until some time after the riot. No—the next morning—the morning of the 20th—he came in, and made this information against Thomas McCall. The mayor, at the time, said to him, that our police force was very limited, and in making those arrests we would have to make quiet arrests. The warrants were placed in the hands of the officers, for the purpose of ascertaining where those parties lived, and to find out who they were, and all about them. For the most part, they were strangers, as far as we knew. Officer McGovern had the warrants. The next morning Mr. Houseman, of the firm of Hampton & Dalzell, came into the office, and asked me how many of the parties had been arrested. I told him I didn't know that any were arrested. That the mayor's instructions were to proceed quietly. He said, can you give me this information. I said, no, it is part of the record, and cannot go out of our hands. He then asked for the names of the parties against whom the information was brought, and he copied the names, and as he was going out he said, I am instructed by Mr. Hampton to tell you folks not to execute these warrants. I said, very well—this is a matter entirely in your own hands. I went out with him to the officer, and told the officer to produce his warrants. He produced them, and I told him, you are instructed by Mr. Hampton, through Mr. Houseman, not to execute them. He said, that was all right. That is all I know, unless some special question may arise.

A. They were discharged, I think, sometime about the latter part of June, or may be the 1st of July. I am not certain as to the date.

Q. Had you any knowledge of any anticipated outbreak or strike by the men before it was communicated to you by Mr. Watt?

A. Not the slightest. And at that time we had no idea there was going to be any such trouble at all, as we have had sometimes in this city.

Q. You were present when Mr. Watt asked the mayor to furnish him with the police?

Q. Did Mr. Watt have to promise to pay the men before the mayor gave that instruction?

A. I believe something was said about pay. These men, you see, were not on the pay-rolls of the city. The regular men were in bed or scattered all over the city. These men happened to be there that day, being paid off.

A. I believe something was said about the railroad company—that it would have to pay the men, as no provision was made by the city for their pay. I think very few of these men were on the regular force.

Q. Did the mayor make that a condition before he instructed you to send out for the men?

A. Either the chief of detectives or the chief of police—I cannot remember which.

A. Yes; in that sense. They were men who had been discharged. They went out under the control of Officer Charles McGovern.

A. We had no right to make a demand on them as a police force. They were not in the employ of the city.

Q. When the telegram came to you calling for fifty policemen, what effort did you make to get them?

A. We hunted them up as well as we could. A great many of these men wouldn't go because they were incensed at the city for discharging them, but a number of them did respond.

A. About thirty-five. It not being my special business, I didn't pay much attention to it.

A. I have no recollection of another call, except when Mr. Watt came and said he wanted from fifty to one hundred men additional.

A. He said he didn't know where he could get the policemen. Our intention in calling the police was simply to protect property from getting stolen.

Q. Did he make a demand upon the citizens of the city to join the police force at any time?

A. On Sunday night, for instance, when I made a call upon the citizens to volunteer to protect the water works of the city.

A. He said, how many people will volunteer to protect the water-works of the city, and I ask for volunteers. As I understood, they intended to burn them down. Out of some two hundred men, four responded, I think. He said he understood they were in danger.

Q. But he summoned no posse from the citizens of the city during the riots, did he?

Q. How many of those discharged policemen were at the city hall on Thursday when those ten men went out?

A. I cannot say how many were there. They were in and out, being paid off. I cannot say how many. Quite a number of them, I know.

A. Yes; I know, personally, I used every exertion I could, and I know Mr. Davis was out hunting up men.

A. They were assembled there listening to a speech made by Doctor Donnelly, counseling moderation, and advising those not connected with the railroad to go home and attend to their own business. Some other speeches were made by one or two more.

A. I don't know that it had any effect. It had no special effect particularly one way or another.

A. Some response was made to Doctor Donnelly when he counseled those having no business there to go home. Some of them made some remarks from the outside of the crowd—that is enough now, you just stop there; and things of that kind.

A. They were not placed back on the police force until Monday. I think Monday a number of them reported for duty. A committee of councils, or councils held a session on Sunday morning; but there was so much confusion that nothing was done. The police force was not replaced until Monday or Tuesday; that is, the additional men.

A. In Philadelphia, I believe. He has left a note that he would be home to-morrow.

A. There was some conversation about the railroad company—that it would have to pay these men, because the men were not on the pay-rolls of the city at the time.

Q. Did or did not the mayor say to you that it was necessary for the officers of the railroad to go out of town, that their lives were in jeopardy?

A. No; only after the riots. I understood they left town for fear of that, and I was rather astonished to find that some of them had been out of town.

Q. Did anybody there state to you that General Pearson had better go out of town?

Q. Did any of the citizens call upon the mayor, requesting him to put on an additional force?

A. Well, I guess—I do not know that. They did not up to Saturday afternoon, until the time of this firing.

Q. Did they offer to become responsible for the payment of the additional police?

A. I never heard of it at all. I never heard any such an offer made. The committee of public safety afterwards agreed to pay a certain number of men on the police force from that time until the end of the year.

A. I think Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday, but it was after all the trouble had occurred, so far as I know anything of it.

Q. You know nothing of any such offer having been made on Friday, Saturday, or Sunday?

A. Off and on, Friday and Saturday. On Sunday I was at the central station until twelve o'clock, noon. We had about one hundred and twenty-five prisoners there Sunday morning, and it took all my attention until noon that day to get through with the business.

A. For carrying away property, and stuff, and various things, and disorderly conduct. One thing and another of that kind.

A. Some were fined, and some were held for court, and some were discharged. A great many were discharged, as one of the officers came down with the report that the jailor said that he could not hold them or keep them.

A. I do not know whether it is there now. I passed the record out of my hands to the comptroller of the city.

A. I really could not, because you can imagine that morning I had not much stomach for anything to keep facts and figures. It is just a general idea. Everything was in such terrible confusion.

Q. Those who were committed to jail. Did you ever ascertain afterward who they were and where they came from?

A. I never did. The police made efforts afterwards to try to ascertain, I believe, who they were, but I do not know what they did, or whether they did anything or not.

Q. Can't you tell something about what class of people they were from their dress?

A. They all looked to be of the poorer class of people, but what they were or who they were I cannot say.

Q. Can't you tell whether they were tramps or railroad men or people of the poorer class?

A. Some were tramps—I know that. I have a recollection of that. I don't think there were any railroad men. There may have been a few, but a very few, though. They were generally of the poorer class of people, picking up plunder.

Q. When those policemen were sent out there, was there any arrangement made by Mr. Watt, or any other person, to keep the time of the men while in service?

A. I had nothing to do with that. That was a matter for the clerk of the chief of police to attend to. I know that Mr. Watt, or somebody, sent down a check to pay them.

A. I remember a party of forty-six sent there. They came here from Cumberland, and were arrested on the arrival of the train here.

Q. State what knowledge you have of the disturbance of the peace that commenced on the 19th of July last?

A. On the 19th of July last I had been out of the city during a part of that day, and came home late in the evening. I went to my house, and remained there until sometime in the night. I had been sleeping, I think. About eleven o'clock, between that and twelve o'clock——

A. Yes. Mr. Scott—that is Mr. John Scott—Mr. Watt, and another gentleman—I do not recollect his name—came to the house. I came down and admitted them into the parlor. They told me of the trouble they had—that Mr. Watt had been assaulted, and that a large crowd was out there. They wished me to go out and see what I could do. I told them I would go, and I put my coat on, and called one of my deputies—Mr. Haymaker—and we started down to Union depot. There we met General Pearson, and he went with us out to one of the offices—I do not know just what office—and then General Pearson and Mr. Watt—I think Mr. Watt went along, or some other gentleman connected with the railroad—and I went up to Twenty-eighth street.

A. It was after the middle of the night—between twelve and one o'clock. There was a large crowd of rough people there. But probably I am a little ahead of my story when I speak of Twenty-eighth street. On my road up from the depot to Twenty-eighth street, the cars on the siding there, and on the tracks that were not filled with merchandise, appeared to be all filled with people. A number of them were in there sleeping, and others were in there carousing. All the cars appeared to be full. At Twenty-eighth street, I asked why that assemblage of people were there, and they said they were on a strike, and that they proposed to stop the freight trains from going out, and that they had stopped them. I told them they were acting contrary to the law, and that they must disperse. The reply was, "go to hell you gray-headed old son of a bitch," that and other pet names of similar character. I then repeated the order that they must disperse, and that if I had not the power to do it, that I would have to try to get power sufficient to do it. They then replied, that General Pearson and I both might go to hell, that they had the mayor and his force on their side, and that Mr. T. C. Jenkins had agreed to give them one thousand barrels of flour to stand out, and that Mr. Alexander King had agreed to give them a thousand dollars. I told them they did not know those gentlemen as well as I did, or they would not talk that way. They said they knew them, and that we had better take a walk. About this time there was a diversion in the crowd. A courier came with a piece of paper—I did not have it in my hand, I did not get to see it—but a large number of them ran across, and they read the communication aloud. It read something in this way: "Hold your position until to-morrow morning, and we will send five hundred coal miners to assist you." It purported to come from the Monongahela Valley. They then assembled back. I was up on a pile of lumber talking to them, and I commenced to talk again, but, after this, they were far more abusive than before. The language would not do to repeat. In a short time another courier came with another communication, representing to come from Wilkes-Barre, that parties there would be here to assist them as soon as they could.

A. Not many of them. A portion of them were, but not many. They were the bad elements of society from all parts of the city, and from some parts of the county, in connection with thieves and blackguards from other parts of the country. A great many strangers were there. I made that remark to one of the railroad officials, that the crowd was not composed entirely of our people, and he differed with me, and I gave this answer at the time—I said "These are not our people, for I claim to know as many men in Allegheny county as any other man in it, and they are strangers here that I never saw." Some females were there, or ladies, the worst I ever saw.

A. Yes; my first introduction to the crowd. I remained some time, trying to get them to disperse. They did not offer me any violence, but refused to go, and said they would die there sooner than they would be driven off. One man there, who appeared to be a leader, had served two terms in the penitentiary. I knew him by sight. He appeared to be a leader. He was not a railroad man, and I do not think ever had been.

A. He was killed on Saturday morning, by the Philadelphia soldiers, and, probably, I had better not name him. He amused himself up to Saturday morning annoying everybody, and was shot on Saturday morning. I became satisfied, that no force I had or could convene could hold that crowd there then, or the crowd that would likely be there in the morning. So I telegraphed to the Governor.

A. Yes; about two o'clock. I telegraphed to the Secretary of the Commonwealth and to the Adjutant General.

A. I will do so. I received an answer sometime after that that he had ordered General Pearson to call out one regiment of volunteers to assist in putting down the riot.

A. I think from Secretary Quay or the Adjutant General. General Pearson then was ordered to call out the regiment here—the Duquesne Greys. They were called out to be in readiness at a certain hour in the morning. Afterwards I walked down to the city hall, and found about thirty men there, and a number of them were trying to get home as fast as they could. About thirty of them I saw in uniform at the city hall. During the forenoon of Friday, I went with General Pearson and some others, out through the mob or crowd at Twenty-eighth street, and along the line up to Twenty-eighth street, and up to Torrens station. There was a large crowd also, and very boisterous, and apparently very determined. I talked to them, and urged them to disperse, but they hooted and jeered. They did not use quite so bad language, but there was plenty of it, as they had done the night before. They told me they would wade in blood to their knees before they would disperse, and that it was blood or bread with them. I also read a proclamation to them, purporting to come from the Governor, and they hooted and jeered at that, and said they did not care, that they were going to stop those trains and had stopped them. It was then about eleven o'clock, and they said at that hour the railroads over the whole country are stopped. General Pearson attempted to address them, but they hooted and jeered at him. I believe he offered to buy a car load of bread and bring it out to them if they would disperse, but they said it was blood or bread with them, and they would not disperse. One young man that appeared to act as spokesman of the crowd while General Pearson was talking to them—I went to him, and asked him why he was acting in the way he was, and why this crowd was here. I am going to give you his answer: He said the Pennsylvania Railroad Company has two ends, one in Philadelphia and one in Pittsburgh. We have determined on a strike, and in Philadelphia they have a strong police force, and they are with the railroad, but in Pittsburgh they have a weak force, and it is a mining and manufacturing district, and we can get all the help we want from the laboring elements, and we have determined to make the strike here. I said to him: "Are you a railroader?" he said "No. I am a laboring man and not a railroader." I then asked him his name. He said: "It might be John Smith and might be John Jones, but I am not here to tell you what it is." I said: "Where do you live?" He said "In the eastern part of the State." I advised him to go home, and not engage in this bad business, but he said he intended to see it through or leave his corpse here. I might say, at East Liberty I warned them to disperse, the crowd, and when they refused to disperse, I warned the women and children to disperse—that the military would be there in a short time, and probably somebody would be hurt. I warned all having no part in the riot to get out of the road. The women answered me that they were there to urge the men on to do what they wanted. Who the women were I do not know, but they answered me in that way. That was in the forenoon of Friday. About noon there was a request sent to me to send some of my deputies with the railroad officials. I understood they were going to try to move the trains on Friday afternoon. I detached Major Boyce, and told him to take as many of my deputies as were necessary, and go down to Union depot. He started after a while, and came back, and it was reported to me that they had decided not to move any trains that afternoon. Consequently, he was not needed, he said. On Saturday—the forenoon of Saturday—I was called on by James Richardson, a constable—I do not know in what ward he is constable—I generally see him here in the Second ward—he is an old constable for many years in the city—he called on me and said that he had some warrants to arrest some parties who were leaders of the riot, issued by Judge Ewing, president judge of our court of common pleas No. 2, and that he wished me to go with him and take what assistance I could, to assist him in arresting some of the leaders of the mob. I immediately detailed ten of my deputies to go out and try to raise a posse. They started out and reported to me about one o'clock, and they had some eight or ten men with them.

A. Yes; some of them appeared willing to go provided they were paid in advance, and others were willing to go—that is, appeared willing to go—under any consideration. We started and went down as far as Union depot, and I think by the time I got there with this posse my deputies had got up; they had all forsaken me and escaped except about six. We met Mr. Pitcairn there, and some of the other railroad officers. They told me they wished me to assist Mr. Richardson in arresting those parties, and that a division or a regiment, I do not know which they called it, of soldiers from Philadelphia would protect me. I went up with Mr. Richardson and Mr. Pitcairn, and another gentleman whom I saw giving his testimony here the other day; I do not know his name. We went up to Twenty-eighth street, and Mr. Pitcairn told me when we got to Twenty-eighth street, that he could not see the parties for whom the warrants were issued. I replied to him, that then my duty in that respect was ended. If he could not point them out that I could not arrest them; that I did not know them. I had seen the list of names, and I did not know any of them. I passed through the crowd, and they hooted and jeered at me for a mile, I suppose, but they offered me no violence. I went clear through the crowd and came and turned back through a portion of it. The military were bringing up a Gatling gun and placing it in position. I came back to the side of the Gatling gun. The military were formed into what I would call three sides of a hollow square. Shortly after that, or previous to that I might say, as we passed up, General Pearson was at my side, and a man who appeared to be a kind of leader of the crowd was on our right. He was very noisy and very boisterous, and God damning Pearson for bringing out his double-headers, and General Pearson just pointed at him and said, "That man will cause trouble after a little, I am afraid." The man saw him pointing. In some little time he came me—he forced himself through the lines of the military and came to me—and said, what had I against him? I said I had nothing against him, so long as he behaved himself. He asked what General Pearson had against him. I said I did not know. I did not hear him say anything against him. He said he was a friend of Pearson's, and had nothing against him, but that he was God damned if he was going to be pointed out that way in the crowd, that he had friends enough there to wipe us both out. I told him to get out. He said he would not go. I put my hands on his shoulders, and he was then thrown through to the crowd by one of the officers, He there became very noisy.

The military came up through the crowd in front with arms apart, and the crowd stood still, refusing to get back. The soldiers were then ordered to charge bayonets. Then somebody cried out in the crowd to hold their position. They came up at a charge bayonets; but a number of their guns were seized by the mob, as you might call it, and at this time, any number of stones were thrown. I saw one soldier get struck with a piece of coal on the forehead, just peeling his forehead, and he fell to his knees. About the same time there were three or four pistol shots fired from the crowd into the ranks of the soldiers, and, as I said before, any quantity of stones and clubs were thrown. Then the firing commenced by the soldiers, and it ran along around two sides of the square. It was a kind of running fire without an order to fire. It put me in mind of a pack of shooting crackers, when you set one end on fire one report would follow another. Some parties were killed and a great many ran away. I waited some half hour or more there. The soldiers then retired towards the round-house, and I returned to my home.

A. In the afternoon about I should judge between four and five o'clock. I think it was near five o'clock.

Q. Go on and relate your movements during the balance of the night, and Sunday and Sunday night.

A. All that night, and Sunday and Sunday night, I remained in the court-house here. I was useless and powerless, and they were hunting me to murder me. On Monday morning, I went to my office door, and a drunken creature was leaning there, with a revolver in his right hand, hunting for the sheriff. I asked him what he wanted with him. He said, I want to see him. I said you can take a good look at him now, and, with that, I took him by the collar, and kicked him down the steps. I have not seen him since. I might have stated, that on Thursday night, (the first night I went out into the crowd,) there were shots fired when General Pearson and I went out there first. I do not know whether they were fired at any person in particular. I think that they were intended to alarm more than anything else.

Q. When Mr. Scott came to your house, on Thursday night, to inform you of the riotous proceedings, did he advise you to consult with your counsel before going out?

A. No; he said it probably would be necessary, before I got through, to see my counsel. I told him that I could not see him then, that he had returned to his home, in the Nineteenth ward, Pittsburgh, and it would be impossible for me to see him at that hour of the night. I told him I would see him at an early hour in the morning.

A. No; I do not think he did, particularly—not to my recollection. He said if I became satisfied, in my own mind, that I had not sufficient force to remove the crowd, that it would be my duty to call on the Governor for aid, and he wished me to be satisfied in my own mind.

A. No; I did not. I will say this here, that although I was called on that night, I was aware pretty generally what was going on in regard to the strike previous to that. It could be heard on the street—parties were saying—the strike before this had occurred in other parts of the United States—and they would say it will be here—it will be here in a day or two. I could hear the remarks passed. Not only that, but every avenue of the city, for a week before, had been crowded. There was a very considerable travel by strangers coming to the city. The city was full of strangers at the time. There was no railroad or wagon road but what you could find on it a class of people traveling that you had never seen or heard of at all before, and they were coming into the city. The city was full of them. This I have not heard any other person remark but myself, but it is the fact of the case. On all the railroad trains you could see men coming in, riding on the tenders, or on the cow-catchers, or any way at all—on the steps, or any way.

A. Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. I will give another little fact. This morning a lady came to my office, asking me to solicit transportation for her over the Pennsylvania railroad to Philadelphia. She wished to get a pass. I asked her why, and she said that she had a son living in Chester county who had come here and mixed himself in with the riots, and had laid out and slept out until he had got a cold, and that he now was dying with consumption, and she was poor, and wished me to solicit the Pennsylvania railroad company to give her a pass to go and see him before he died. She lives here, and her son is married and lives in Chester county. She lives nearly across the street from where I do. But I didn't know she had this son, though.

Q. As soon as you returned on Thursday night from Twenty-eighth street, you telegraphed to the Governor?

Q. Had you become satisfied, then, that it was necessary to call out the troops?

A. Yes, sir; I had. The riot had assumed—although there had been no actual outbreak, except the striking of Mr. Watt—had assumed such proportions then, that it would have been folly for me to attempt in this city to have got a posse to remove the crowd. I might, if I had had time, have got the rural districts of this county to assist me—I might have got a force there, but then it would have been a worse slaughter than what it was. But in this city it would have been folly for me to try it. I knew the feeling of the people.

A. I did not. I viewed it in this way. That, when I had called on the State authorities, and the State authorities had responded, that that relieved me of that responsibility of calling a posse. In fact, I considered the idea of a sheriff of any county calling out a posse almost as an obsolete piece of law to-day. The time was, when the military were under the control of the sheriff, but it is not so now.

Q. Do you know what the law is in regard to calling out the militia to suppress a riot?

Q. You knew what was necessary for you, as sheriff, to do before calling the militia?

Q. You thought that you laid sufficient ground for calling on the Governor, did you?

A. Yes; this riot had assumed such proportions at that time—it had gone so far, and such a crowd was there, of all the rough elements of society, that no posse, raised inside of three or four days—and then it would have had to be collected from all parts of the county—could have removed it.

A. Well, I cannot tell you that, because the cars not loaded with freight, as I said before, were all occupied. Some had four or five in, and some ten or twelve in. I cannot tell how many cars were full. At Twenty-eighth street, I judge that a thousand persons were there at that time, and all along, from Union depot to Twenty-eighth street, they were scattered.

Q. Those cars you saw the men in, were they regular freight cars or caboose cars?

A. I saw them in both. One thing other I wish to impress on the committee, and that is this: I see that other evidence—by reading it in the papers—places those warrants for the arrest of those parties on Saturday, in my hands. It is not the case. They were in the hands of James Richardson, the constable, and I was only acting as a guard to assist him.

A. No; I told him I would go myself, and give him some of my men to assist him. I took thirteen of my regular deputies and myself to assist him, and some other men not regularly connected with the office. The names of some of them I cannot recollect.

A. No, sir; not unless the military had done it. Probably, General Brinton might have been able, but I do not know. There was about a mile of a solid packed mob.

A. On Friday there was a large crowd. It was continually increasing. It increased from Thursday, and kept on increasing all the time, on Friday and Saturday.

A. No; a portion were lookers on, but the sympathy appeared to be all with the strikers. But I must say, that I did not see many of those strikers. After we had gone out to Torrens station, I asked Mr. Pitcairn how many men he knew in those two crowds, at Twenty-eighth street and Torrens station, as belonging to the road. After studying awhile, he said: "Well, really, I think I only know four."

Q. How extensive was that sympathy—to what extent was it carried among the people?

A. It was very extensive. In fact, I do hardly know any person whose sympathy was not with them. It went so far that on Saturday night, after the firing, parties were coming to my house and telling my family that they would be murdered or burned out before morning. My wife became alarmed, and in the street where I lived she could not get protection in any house. They would not let her in.

A. Because they blamed me for being at the head of the soldiers, and for causing the killing of innocent parties. That was the reason they gave her—that they did not think they would be safe in letting her in.

A. They were not destroying things. On Friday they were stopping all the trains coming in—stopping trains, and then hooking on locomotives and running the cattle cars, for instance, to Torrens station, and letting the cattle out in the field. In fact, Mr. Pitcairn will remember that we were ordered out of the locomotive that we were on, to let them run cattle out.

Q. Not on Thursday and Friday, but after the firing occurred, how was the sympathy?

A. I think the sympathy was with the strikers from the first. I feel satisfied it was. But I am only giving you my own opinion.

Q. But you give that opinion, having formed it after intercourse with the people, and after being in the crowd?

A. Yes; I talked with a great many of them, and they appeared to think it was a hardship to reduce the wages and the numbers of the men, and also, once in a while, they would bring in this freight discrimination question.

Q. If you had had the warrants on Thursday night, could you have arrested those parties?

A. If I had had a posse of two hundred or two hundred and fifty I probably could have arrested them, but probably there would have been somebody killed. I believe on Thursday morning if I had had the number of police that Mayor McCarthy had, I could have arrested the leaders, and put in prison the disorderly parties, and that then the trouble would not have assumed the proportions it did. That is only my own idea of it.

A. As I said before, I was out of Pittsburgh part of Thursday. I was called away on business.

A. On Thursday morning I saw the crowd gathering around, and I think then if I had had a force and had been called on to anything with the force that Mayor McCarthy had, I think I could have done some good, but on Thursday night at one o'clock, I do not think it could have been done.

Q. When those messages were brought in and read to the crowd as coming from other parties, were there any messages sent out to them in reply?

A. I cannot answer that. I have given you about the purport of the messages. Probably if General Pearson shall be called he might recollect the purport a little distincter than I have.

A. Yes, and one from the Monongahela valley, and there was also one from Mansfield—that the coal miners there would be in in the morning.

A. Nothing that I could assert with any distinctness—nothing only rumor—while I firmly believe there was. Now I will give you another fact or instance to corroborate my theory: Some five weeks after the riot I was in St. Paul, and the mayor of St. Paul had gathered up thirteen tramps in a cave on the bank of the Mississippi river. I was at the hearing, and each one had a traveling sack or satchel, and they examined these satchels and there were goods like silk handkerchiefs, and so forth, in them. The mayor asked them where they got them, and they said, at Pittsburgh at the time of the riot, "How did you know there was going to be a riot there." "Oh! we knew it, and we were there." If you will telegraph to the mayor at St. Paul he will substantiate the fact.

Q. In regard to the extent of this sympathy with the strikers that you spoke of, I would like you to explain a little more upon that subject as to the extent of it, and as to what classes of people sympathized with the strikers?

A. The whole laboring class, so far as I know, were with the strikers in their sympathy.

A. Yes; I think so. Do not understand me to say that they were in sympathy with the riot. They were in sympathy with the men on account of their wages being reduced.

A. I do not know that, but it was just this way that the railroad men had their sympathy. Then there was another sympathy of the merchants to a certain extent with these men. They believed they were not paid right, and that the railroad company were not doing——

Q. Was it sympathy with the strikers, or only prejudice against the railroad company?

Q. Do you think that any responsible portion of the people of Pittsburgh, whether laboring men or others, sympathized with the rioters after the difficulty had become a riot?

A. No; I think not. I would say here, that the responsible portion of the people of Pittsburgh were not in sympathy with the riot, but I would say, further, that it took a certain amount of riot to bring them to their senses. Something has been said in regard to seeing my solicitor. On Friday morning, I did see him at an early hour, and stated to him all I had done, and what I had done, and he advised me that I had done just exactly what he would have advised me to do. He stayed with me nearly all day Friday and Saturday. Before going up to Union depot in company with him, I walked down the street, looking for a posse to go along, and among other places we dropped in, was Air. Hampton's office. They two consulted, and both decided that I had acted in the right way. I am only satisfying you in regard to that. Those gentlemen, both, can be had at any time.

The following are the telegrams referred to in the foregoing testimony of Sheriff Fife:

Pittsburgh, July 19, '77.

To Hon. John Latta, Lieutenant Governor of Penn'a.:

I have forwarded the following dispatch to his Excellency Governor Hartranft, at Harrisburg. Learning that he is absent from the State, I forward it also to you for such action as you may deem your duty and powers render proper.

Signed R. H. Fife,
Sheriff of Allegheny county.

Pittsburgh, July 19, 1878.

Hon. John F. Hartranft,
Governor of Pennsylvania,
Harrisburg:

A tumult, riot, and mob exist on the Pennsylvania railroad at East Liberty and in the Twelfth ward of Pittsburgh. Large assemblages of people are upon the railroad, and the movement of freight trains, either east or west, is prevented by intimidation and violence, molesting and obstructing the engineers and other employés of the railroad company in the discharge of their duties. As the sheriff of the county, I have endeavored to suppress the riot, and have not adequate means at my command to do so, and I, therefore, request you to exercise your authority in calling out the military to suppress the same.

R. H. Fife, (Copy.)
Sheriff of Allegheny county.

Beaver, Pa., July 20, 3:35, A.M.

R. H. Fife,
Sheriff:

Your telegram received. I have telegraphed the Adjutant General.

M. S. Quay,
Secretary Commonwealth.

Harrisburg, July 20, 2:11, A.M.

R. H. Fife,
Sheriff Allegheny county Pa.:

Gen. Latta will be here in an hour, and means taken to assist you if necessary.

C. N. Farr, Jr.,
Private Secretary.

Harrisburg, July 20, 2:30, A.M.

R. H. Fife,
Sheriff Allegheny county, Pa.:

The Constitution gives me no power to act in the matter. The Governor alone has the power. His law officer, Attorney General Lear, can be reached either at Harrisburg or Doylestown.

John Latta,
Lieut. Gov.

Lancaster, Pa., 3:17, A.M.

R. H. Fife,
Sheriff Allegheny county, Pa.:

Have ordered General Pearson to place a regiment on duty to aid you in suppressing disorder.

James W. Latta, (Copy.)
Adjutant General.

Q. State to us what knowledge you have of the disturbance, and when it commenced—give us a statement of the facts?

A. Coming in on Friday morning, from attending a sale, I met the sheriff and General Pearson, on Grant street or on Liberty street. I told the sheriff I was going to the office, and I asked where he was going, and he said he was going out the Pennsylvania railroad a short distance. I asked him if he wished me to go along, and he said he did. Then the sheriff and Mr. Pitcairn and General Pearson and myself went to Torrens station. The sheriff there addressed the crowd, as also did General Pearson. They gave some good advice, but they took no notice of it.

A. Standing in groups talking, on the railroad track, and by the side of the railroad track.

A. Yes; General Pearson made a neat, handsome little speech to them, but they paid no attention to it, nor to the sheriff either.

A. The next was on Saturday. In the morning, sometime, the sheriff called me into the office, and told me to get up some men to report at the Pennsylvania railroad depot.

A. This was on Friday afternoon. We went out that afternoon to the depot. They wanted some assistance in moving some trains. After I went there, they concluded not to move any, and I returned to the office; and on Saturday I went again, with Constable James Richardson, probably about one o'clock.

A. A few would answer in that way; others said that they had enough to do to attend to their own business.

Q. You say you called on constables and citizens. Citizens is a very broad term. Did you call on any professional men?

A. That they had to attend to their own business, and couldn't leave on account of it—it being a busy day on Saturday.

A. Not at that time, but a crowd was there, but they didn't appear to be specially riotous at that time.

Q. Did you move down to Twenty-eighth street with the sheriff, ahead of the militia?

A. Not that I heard. I heard the command to charge bayonets, but no command to fire.

A. I presume so, just at that time. Quite a number of the crowd—several of them—tried to take the muskets out of the hands of the soldiers.

Q. How did the firing by the militia commence—was it one shot—one shot or a volley?

Q. Did the crowd assemble between the depot and where the militia were then stationed?

A. After the firing was over, probably three quarters of an hour, I came in Penn avenue.

A. When the firing commenced we were standing immediately in front. It was too warm to stand there very long.

Q. Had you any knowledge of any pre-arranged purpose among those men to strike on that day?

A. I had not—only what you might judge from the crowds gathering there occasionally, at the corners, and on the railroad tracks, and different places.

Q. Was there any talk of striking among those men that gathered in crowds before the strike?

A. Yes; you could hear a great deal of talk about a strike, but nothing was said as to the time when it was going to take place.

A. Among the laboring classes—among the men that worked in the mills, and the glass houses, &c., and railroad men.

Q. Did you hear it before the news of the strike on the Baltimore and Ohio railroad?

Q. Prior to that you had heard nothing that would lead you to believe there was an organization for the purpose?

Q. That was the subject of conversation, I suppose, among all classes—to some extent?

A. There was none about the round-house at all. The only disturbances there were, took place out on the track, about Twenty-eighth street.

A. The railroad men and the others were combined—but they were not doing anything, except standing there in groups.

A. I was among them nearly all the time. On Thursday night, between eight and nine o'clock, I attempted to get out an engine to haul some stock, and I thought it was useless to attempt it without first seeing whether they would allow us to haul it. Mr. Watt told me in the office that they would allow us to haul the stock; but when I got among them they didn't seem very favorable to allowing it. So we talked to them some time, and at last they agreed that we could haul the stock. I brought the engine out myself; but before I could get her across Twenty-eighth street four or five hundred called out to me and hallowed—called out to me to take her back; but I got her across Twenty-eighth street, and, after talking to them, they got quiet, and agreed that I could haul the stock, provided a committee could go on the engine to see that we would not haul anything else. I then got two engineers, one to fire the engine, and one to run it, and they took the stock up that night; but a little later in the night a Pan Handle train came along, and that raised a terrible howl there about the stock, and they cut the engine loose; but at last they let the stock go as far as Lawrenceville, and then we got an engine to haul it away. In fact, they went along on the train.

A. They complained about the double-headers; that they would take a great many of them off; that it would take their work away at any rate, and they thought they might as well fight it.

A. No; I went home at six o'clock in the morning to take some sleep. I then went to the round-house between seven and eight o'clock. When I got there the soldiers were just entering. After they had got themselves stationed there, it was not long until the outside parties commenced firing into the round-house.

A. Yes; between eleven and twelve o'clock that night. There was a board pile between Twenty-sixth and Twenty-seventh streets, and a good many of them got in behind that, and they just rattled volley after volley into the round-house. I was standing there; but I thought it was too hot, and went to the other side. I then remained in the round-house until about twelve o'clock, and then told an officer that I would go out. He said I had better see General Brinton first, that I might do him some good. I saw General Brinton; but he had nothing to say, and I said nothing to him. I started to go out the back way of the carpenter shop; but there was a lot of rioters there, and we thought that it would not be safe, so we came on back to where the superintendent's office stood, and he proposed that I might go out the gate at Twenty-sixth street, and that he would tell his soldiers not to fire on me. The firing was going on at Twenty-sixth street. I got out then and went on home.

A. Not then; but on Friday night or Saturday morning, between twelve and one o'clock, we were getting out two passenger engines to go east. It was not my business to know what the engines were going to haul. I got orders to get them out, and I went out in the street then and got two engineers and firemen, but a man came in and gave us to understand that the engines couldn't go, and I knew it was no use to argue the point with them, because there were four or five hundred of them there on Twenty-eighth street.

A. Not at that time. I believe he had been suspended. He is in the work-house now. Then we had two engines coming west on the fast line that same night, and we cut one engine off and took the accommodation engine at Wall's, and let the accommodation engine bring the train in, and let the other engine go back to Altoona; but we found they had her blocked. I went to Twenty-eighth street, and they were pretty noisy at that time. Some of them came to me, and asked what kind of a hand I was taking in the matter. I told them I was not taking any more hand in it than I ought to, and they told me if I didn't get out right quick they would shoot me so full of holes that I couldn't get away. I found it was pretty hot, and I got away. On Friday morning, when the troops came there, there was not over twenty or thirty men at Twenty-eighth street. They seemed to go away, but after that, of course, they commenced gathering in groups, and I noticed the troops were not there very long until they were among them themselves. I noticed that morning, before I went home, that they were walking together in the street, our own men and the soldiers. I thought there was no use for those soldiers there.

A. The Pittsburgh troops. I was there Thursday night and Friday night and Saturday night until one o'clock.

Q. At Twenty-eighth street, were the same men there all the time from Thursday until Saturday—until the firing of the troops?

A. Yes; they were nearly about the same crowd. Of course, the crowd increased. On Friday night four or five thousand of them were there, but the crowd was orderly, and I never saw them molest anybody unless you wanted to do something—then they would drive you back.

Q. Would it have been possible for the police to have made any arrests at that time?

A. I went out and looked at the crowd. I looked over the crowd and I thought if there were any police there they could have arrested the whole of them.

A. They could on Thursday afternoon, when the first double-header was stopped. I think only about from twenty to twenty-five men were interfering with that train at all. It was just this way: I stood and looked on, but I had nothing to do with it. It was daylight, and I was on at night. There were four police on each engine, and a road foreman was on an engine, and the engineers and firemen, but they didn't seem to pull her out. I didn't see anybody with anything in their hands, but was informed that there were parties with links and pins in their hands, ready to throw in case they did start.

Q. Do you know of any engineers or firemen being driven off their engines when there were policemen with them on the train?

Q. Was there any call upon the sheriff during that day for assistance in putting down the disturbance at Twenty-eighth street?

A. We walked into the crowd. The crowd would open for us to walk in, and then close around us.

A. I cannot say that. They hooted, and hallooed, and used vile language, and threw stones.

A. I did not see anybody there, but I heard that there had been parties at the house.

A. I did not get home until near morning. I was out on the hill at Twenty-eighth street.

A. I do not exactly remember now who I did ask—parties I would see around the court-house.

Pursuant to adjournment, the committee re-assembled at ten o'clock, A.M., this day, and continued the taking of testimony.

A. They are elected by city councils to take care of the fire department, and to elect the force, and to run it, and they have general supervision over the expenditure of the money.

Q. What was done by the fire department during the riot for the purpose of protecting the city or railroad companies' property from fire?

A. The first alarm of fire was struck about eleven o'clock on Saturday night, after the cars were set fire to. The fire department responded as soon as the alarm was struck, and started out to the fire, No. 7 engine, I believe, being the first on the way. At that time, I was on top of the hill overlooking the outer depot. I heard the alarm struck, and I heard the engine start, and then I heard the shouts of the mob, and could hear the gong of the engine as it was running. I then heard the engine stop, and could hear the oaths of the men all distinctly. Afterwards I went down into the crowd, and as the other engines came up, I saw them stopped by the mob there, who swore that if we did lay any hose, they would cut the hose, and shoot the drivers, and all that kind of a thing. The mob would not allow the fire department to put a drop of water on the company's property, and all that night we did not get to throw any. The following night when private property caught fire they allowed us to throw water on it, and did not interfere.

A. As well as it could be done, but it was so extensive that we could not protect it altogether; we had the force of the fire department cut down on account of the appropriations not being sufficient to run it a short time before that, and the result was that we were short of men.

Q. Was the private property fired by the mob, or did it catch from the railroad company's fire?

A. They were wild—perfectly mad, and appeared to want to burn everything or anything, especially the railroad property.

A. That evening—Saturday evening—we did not get to throw any water. But the chief engineer can give fuller details than I can about that.

Q. Did you call on the mayor for protection in any way for your fire department?

A. Not that I know of. We were the only department that kept up any organization in this city at that time.

A. Yes, perfectly, and we followed the line of the fire all the way down Liberty street clear to Union depot.

A. Yes. I was attacked once near the grain elevator. I was directing a stream of water on the hotel opposite, and they thought I wanted to put water on the elevator, and they attacked me; but I got away, as I was on horseback.

Q. If your fire department had been protected by the police, could you have controlled the fire?

A. We could at the inception of it—when they started burning the cars. Only one car was lit at that time.

A. Yes; he has supreme control of the fire department, and in case of a large fire he is assisted by the commissioners.

A. Yes; he is directed by them, but he has supreme control of the fire department. If he wants the assistance of the commissioners he sends an alarm for them.

Q. In case the fire department needs protection, to whom ought you to look for that protection?

Q. Do you know, of your own knowledge, whether any demand was made upon the chief of police for protection?

A. Beyond the round-house. And I thought they had an engine up there. They would fire one car and start it, and fire another car and start it, and fire another car and start it.

A. I think they were all above Twenty-eighth street—the cars that were started.

A. They came down—the whole yard was packed with cars down below the round-house, and they had the switches so arranged that they ran down to the round-house. They were trying to burn out the soldiers. It was very plain what their motive was.

Q. The motive, at first, was not to destroy the railroad company's property, but to burn out the soldiers?

A. No; they were freight cars first that were fired. Afterwards they started the oil cars down.

A. It was general destruction then. They started the oil cars early Sunday morning.

Q. Did you see the mob as it approached the depot with torches, and the burning of Union depot?

A. It would be hard to form an estimate. It was an immense crowd, for squares on Liberty street, breaking cars open and stealing—ten thousand or fifteen thousand anyway—just streaming back over the hill, taking the things away. Thousands of them were carrying away everything imaginable, and going to the south side with them. They passed my house—crowds of them.

A. Yes; they just got ahead in front of the horses and caught the horses by the head, and swore they would shoot the drivers if they would go any further.

A. They interfered in every way they could. One of our men caught a man going along with a sword-cane punching holes in the hose, and he knocked him down, and took it away from him. They have that cane now.

Q. Did you not have one of your fire engines in position to play on the fire when the police offered to protect you from the mob, but your men did not then play on the fire?

A. Since last May. I was the assistant chief for two years, and the engineer of a company before that, and the foreman of a company before that. I then resigned for sometime, and was then elected engineer afterwards, and was then elected assistant chief engineer, and then elected chief.

A. When the alarm came I was in bed. They fetched my wagon to me, and I went out there, and when I got to Eleventh street—driving there—they got in my way—certain parties—and called out: "You son of a bitch, don't lay any hose—you son of a bitch." But I said to them, "you can go to hell;" and I started on. It was on the street, and I went at a pretty rapid gait. When I got out as far as the "Independent" house, Mr. Coates, one of the fire commissioners, said to me: "Sam, drive in here, quick." I drove then into the engine house, and then went to Twenty-eighth and Liberty streets where the mob was. I looked up and saw the fire. It was a car—it appeared to be an oil tank car. At first, No. 7 was between Twenty-second and Twenty-third streets on the right side of Penn, in the gutter. They had no fire in the engine, and I said: "Where's your fire?" And they told me they had put a pistol to the head of the fireman, and made him draw the fire. I told the engineer then to turn her around and take her down to the house and to fire up again. They went to the house, and I told them to stand there so as to be ready to go into service if we could get into service. Then they came up with a big gun on wheels—a cannon—pulling it along on the street. After they got up to where a few hose carriages were, they came to Twenty-third street—and I said, "what is the matter?" And all they said was to point the gun at us and said: "If you don't get out of that we'll blow you to hell." I said we had better come down here than go there. While I was standing there, an alarm came from East Liberty. I went out there, and when I went out there I thought probably it was the stock-yards, but I found it was a solitary house away down on Negley's run, a mile or a mile and a half from the railroad. Then I told the engine company at East Liberty to stay there in case they would burn Mr. Pitcairn's house, or set the stock-yards on fire, and that we would manage to get along without them. So they did not come in. Then I came in, and I think at eight minutes after three it was, when they sent a signal in that the fire was out. There was a big crowd on Liberty street, and somebody asked me to let them lay a line of hose to save Mr. Hardie's stable, and some property belonging to Mr. Denny. I told the foreman then of hose company No. 1, to lay a line of hose up Liberty street from Thirty-first street, and that if any stables got on fire, or any private property, to throw water on it. Then four men stopped me with guns, and asked me what I was going to do, and I said I was going to lay a line of hose; and they said, not a God damned line of hose. But I said to them that I was going to save private property, and then they said, that I could throw water on that, "but that if you throw any water on the company's fire we will shoot you and cut your hose," and everything else. While coming in they were carrying goods away from the cars. Everybody you would see, had a bundle on their shoulders or their heads.

A. Between three and four o'clock in the morning. I came down to Twenty-third street, but we could not go into service at all. They were shooting at that time out of the machine shop and the round-house.

A. Yes; they took this gun and planted it in the street to shoot into the round-house, and these men in the round-house, when they would go to sight this gun, would shoot them. They had this gun loaded with links and pins belonging to the railroad company. After the fire started, I think it could have been stopped before it set the round-house on fire. I think at that time it could have been stopped, because in the morning, about six or seven o'clock, they commenced running down the wall—a crowd of them—and then pushed the cars up along the Allegheny Valley track, and when they would come to a car afire—one man I noticed particularly jump up on a car, and stop it alongside of another car afire. Then when it would catch fire they would open the brakes, and let it go down to the round-house. Then they threw something out of the round-house, and stopped the cars there, and then they got to throwing water out of the round-house on the cars. I was down on the corner of Twenty-third street when two rough looking customers came down, and asked me where the place to stop the water off was. They said they are throwing water out of the round-house. I told them to go to the head of Twenty-sixth street on Liberty, and that they would see a big iron plate in the middle of the street, and that they should lift that up, and put their hands down and stop it off. They said they will pick us off, and they wanted to know if there was no place in Penn street to stop the water off. I said no.

A. Yes; I knew they were rioters, and if they went where I told them they would shoot them, perhaps.

Q. You did not give the information for the purpose of getting the water stopped off.

A. Standing there—a great many of them—but they were afraid to speak or to do anything for fear of getting hurt—those that felt like stopping it. A good many were arrested. I saw the "black maria" very busy taking men down to the station-house, and I asked the policemen how many were arrested, and they said one hundred and thirty or one hundred and forty, for stealing, and in the morning I asked a man what they did with them, and he said that the mayor had fined them three dollars and costs, and let them go. I said they were all thieves, and he said that nobody was there to identify the property. I said it was not necessary to identify stolen property.

A. Yes; the track is on top of the wall until you come to a little piece on this side of Twenty-sixth street, and then it comes down and gets level with the payment—between Twenty-fifth and Twenty-sixth streets it begins to get on a level with the payment. These cars were stopped between Twenty-sixth and Twenty-seventh streets. One fireman told me—a fireman of Engine Company 8, in Philadelphia—that he got the water ready to throw, or was handling the line, when he said there was a car loaded with liquor in it burning, and it ran down into the cellar of the round-house, or the shop on the other side, and that that was what drove them out so that they could not do anything. When that liquor, burning, ran down into the cellar, it set the buildings on fire.

A. No; they would not let us. And we had as much as we could do after the fire started. As fast as the fire would come along we would move the engines down.

A. Eleven of my own, and the chief engineer of Allegheny came over and fetched me three.

A. I do not know that I saw him but once. He and Roger O'Mara came up Penn street in a buggy, and turned out Liberty, and then O'Mara came back some way without the mayor.

A. No protection at all, sir. If I could have got protection when I first went out to the fire, we could have kept the other cars from burning. We could have pulled them away sufficiently far to stop the oil tanks from setting any of the rest afire, and kept them cooled off.

Q. Do you think that the police force of the city could have protected you so that you could have played on the fire?

A. If they had not been demoralized, they could. If they had had a police like the New York police, they could have kept the crowd back.

A. After the fire got started, it would have taken right smart, but before that I think that one hundred and fifty or two hundred men could have stopped the whole thing, because police can do more than soldiers.

A. Motts and Goldsmith. They came out in the papers and said they went to one man named Kennedy, and told them that they would give protection, but I went and asked them, and they said that they never came to them at all.

A. Yes; I can have them at any time at all. I will fetch them to you. None of them came to me; and I am the proper person to come to for a purpose of that kind.

Q. You say that a couple of hundred or one hundred and fifty policemen could have driven the crowd back?

A. On Saturday, one hundred and fifty policemen, well armed, and staying together, could have moved the crowd away so that they could have moved the trains.

Q. On Saturday and Sunday morning, when you were there, were the police doing anything to prevent the pillaging?

A. After I came back from East Liberty, I saw the police arresting people for stealing. The "black maria" was busy taking them down to the station—the Twelfth ward station—and then running them down to the Central station.

Q. From what you saw, do you think it would have been possible for the police to have stopped it?

A. It would have been impossible for what was there to have stopped the mob. They could catch the people when carrying things off.

A. Yes; about the round-house. As soon as the soldiers went out of the round-house we went into service, and kept right on then. We could not go into service before, because they were firing both from the round-house and from the board-pile—the rioters.

A. Yes. As soon as they came down on to Penn street, I noticed a squad on each side watching the houses and buildings and alleys, and the men with the Gatling gun were watching behind.

A. No. They marched out orderly. You could not have told from the way they looked that anything was the matter. I expected to see them come out and run every way, and I was astonished. When they began coming out everybody ran from them, but when they saw them come out in good order, and keep in a good line, then they began to stand still again—the people did.

Q. Was there any arrangement being made among the men for a strike to take place then or any other time?

A. We had an organization here at that time, called the Trainmen's Union. Of course, if I have to answer all these questions, I am willing to answer them, if they do not conflict with this organization. Of course, I went into that organization, and I am under an obligation.

Q. As far as you can, you will give us what information you have upon the causes of this riot, and whether it was pre-arranged among the men?

A. The organization is not in existence to-day, but I still feel myself duty bound to the organization. I will answer this. There was a union called the Trainmen's Union—an organization—and there was a talk of a strike in June. It was to have taken place on the 27th day of June. That fell through, and with the strike in July, we had no business of that kind.

A. This organization was gotten up for the benefit of the railroad men—for their own protection—for to protect them in anything that might be brought up.

A. Yes; when I speak of transportation, I include the whole transportation department.

Q. Was it the ten per cent. reduction made on the 1st of June that induced the men to arrange for that strike?

A. I do not know that it was positively that, more than some other grievances that might be brought up. It was organized more for the protection of ourselves in any grievances that might be brought up. Of course, the ten per cent. would be included.

Q. Had the men any grievances or complaints to make outside of that, when it was talked of that a strike should take place on the 27th of June?

A. In regard to the classification of engineers and the amount of pay they received, &c.; that was something I did not particularly understand at that time.

Q. You did not organize a strike for the 27th of June in regard to any future grievance.

Q. It was the ten per cent. reduction and the classification of engines that induced you to arrange that strike for the 27th of June?

Q. In arranging for a strike, what did the railroad men propose to do—stop all trains—just simply quit work?

A. In case of their striking, they simply proposed quitting work themselves—standing still or going to their homes, or wherever they wished to go. I never heard of any arrangement made as to what they would do.

Q. You said it fell through. What broke off that arrangement to strike on the 27th of June?

A. It was because it was generally thought it was not solid enough; it was not worked in the right way.

A. I did not think it was very extensive; at least, I did not think it was very solid.

Q. Do you know how many organizations this Trainmen's Union had in existence—how many lodges?

A. Most all the roads out of Pittsburgh; in fact, I guess all the other main roads.

A. Not within a week, and that was very small. The meeting called last was called without the approval of the right party in this union. His attention was called to a poster struck up on a telegraph pole by a certain party, and I rather think it was put up just as a burlesque in the first place. There had not been a regular meeting for some time previous to the strike.

A. I have my own idea, but I don't know whether I am right. My impression always was that the railroad men, in connection with the Trainmen's Union, were afraid to attempt it for fear of being discharged from the road. I claim it was lack of nerve on the part of the men. I was discharged myself after the first trainmen's meeting I ever attended, and I am satisfied I would still be a union man if there had been any men with me.

A. Not in the least. In fact I was surprised, and I didn't believe such a thing was going on until I walked to Twenty-eighth street, and saw it to be a fact.

A. A few railroad men, and I believe a few policemen were there, and some citizens.

A. I cannot tell you that—I suppose twenty or thirty or forty or fifty. A great many of those men I didn't know.

A. They didn't appear to be doing anything. They just appeared to be standing around talking.

A. Not just in my presence. I believe they undertook—that is only hearsay—but I could see from Twenty-eighth street down towards where they started the trains west of Twenty-eighth street, and I think on Friday I saw a few engines apparently coupled to trains. Whether they intended to go out is more than I can tell of my own knowledge. I know they didn't go out.

A. From the understanding I had from the men, after talking with a few of the men, it was that they had struck against the double-headers.

Q. Did you admonish them that it was wrong to be assembled in such large numbers there?

A. Not that I know of. I was not in a very good humor just as I got up there. I had been insulted just before I reached Twenty-eighth street.

A. By Mr. Watt. When I reached there there were only a few of those parties that I knew.

Q. As a member of the organization, what action would your organization have taken in reference to that unlawful assemblage there?

A. My idea is that they would have discountenanced anything of the kind—any burning, or pillaging, or anything of that kind.

A. That is more than I can tell. I cannot tell anything about what men will do after getting started.

Q. Would your organization have any means of disciplining the members of it who interfered with the movements of the trains?

Q. You mean to say, in your organization, according to the rules and regulations of it, if they struck, they passed resolutions that no trains should go out?

Q. Was it the intention of the men to interfere with the movement of the trains?

A. Not to the best of my knowledge. I never heard any such resolution, and I never heard any person speak of it that way.

Q. Do you know any of the men that did interfere with the movement of the trains who belonged to the union?

Q. In that arrangement to strike on the 27th of June—how extensive was that strike to be—how far was it to extend—what roads was it to include?

A. The Pennsylvania railroad, the Pan-Handle, the Fort Wayne and Chicago, the Allegheny Valley, and the Cleveland and Pittsburgh.

Q. Was your organization notified of this strike that took place on Thursday, the 19th?

A. No, sir; no more than what I told you, that I was met on the corner of Eleventh street, near the Rush house, and told of it, in the neighborhood of eleven o'clock.

A. I am positive of it—at least the message I received bore nearly about the same words, but not just in that way.

Q. Did your Trainmen's Union include the employés of the Baltimore and Ohio road?

Q. Was that formally communicated to your union here—the strike that occurred there?

Q. Did the members of your union make any effort to have those parties disperse and go to their homes during Friday, Saturday, and Sunday?

A. I did take some men out of the crowd at Twenty-eighth street, men that belonged to the Pan-Handle road. At Twenty-eighth street, that day, I was met by this Watt. He says to me, I want you to leave this property. Watt was the man; but I didn't know him only by sight. I thought, of course, he was an employé of the company. He said, I want you to leave the company's ground, and I asked him who he was. He replied that it didn't make any difference who he was, that he knew who I was, and my motive for being there. I said if he knew my motive he knew my business better than I did, for I hardly knew myself what I was there for. And after trying to give me a bluff, as I call it, that he was Mr. Watt, and employed by the road, I went up towards Twenty-eighth street, and there understood that they were going to send for what they called the Pan Handle roughs to head this trouble. I knew the great majority of those men—between eighty and a hundred of them were discharged off the Pan Handle road, and had been discharged prior to this strike. The majority of them were in town; some had left town; but a great many of them were here, and they were pretty lucky if they could get one meal a day. I didn't want to see any of them get into further trouble, and when I heard this I was afraid that some of those men would enter into this thing through persuasion. I went to them singly, and took some half a dozen out of the crowd, one at a time, and told them not to have anything to do with the affair. I said, I have been discharged from the Pan Handle, and you, and there will be nothing in this of any benefit at all. I took out six or eight men from different parties that had belonged to the Pan Handle railroad.

A. They thought that a few men of that road were rougher than anybody else, or had more pluck. I don't know—it was a rumor I heard.

A. It was on their ground. I was walking right up the track. After this man was going to bounce me, I walked up to Twenty-eighth street, and I told him I thought I would have the privilege of standing there on the street.

A. I was not. I was not on the ground at all after Saturday evening—after one of our engineers was wounded very badly. I helped to carry him up Liberty street on a shutter. I was not on the ground afterwards.

Q. Did you see any considerable number of the Pan-Handle men or employés in the crowd?

A. Yes; and likely to remain out so long as some of these men hold their positions on the roads.

Q. You know nothing of this organization being in existence at that time on any roads except those that ran out of Pittsburgh?

A. They might have been contemplating such a thing, but the organization at that time, in June, was not so extensive as it got to be afterwards.

Q. Was it the object of this organization to control the railroad companies, as to wages and running regulations?

A. The object, no doubt, of the organization was to protect themselves, no matter what grievances might be brought up, if based on good authority. The union would attend to them in its own way, whatever it might be.

A. That would have to be brought up before the order before they could tell that.

Q. Then there was no definite plan by which the railroad companies were to be controlled or coerced into coming to terms with the union?

Q. You said, a while ago, that this last meeting you spoke of was not regularly called?

A. If it had been called it would have been through me. I had nothing to do with this poster on the telegraph pole; but after being on the pole for a half day, I concluded, rather than dupe the men, to let them meet, but nothing was done.

Q. Do you know how many members of this organization there were in Pittsburgh at the time of the contemplated strike in June?

Q. Can you give an approximate estimate of the number in Pittsburgh, at that time?

Q. Was there not an understanding in the union, that whenever there were differences between the train men and the railroad companies, that the railroad companies were to be brought to terms by the members of the union, by striking on some particular day, without any notice to the companies, so that all traffic would be stopped?

Q. Was there not some such talk, that that would be the most effectual way of bringing the companies to terms?

Q. And no definite plan was adopted by the union to act upon the railroad companies in any way?

Q. When any men wanted to become members of the organization, did they have to pay any initiation fees or dues?

A. They would have had to in course of time, but, up to that time, it was more a charitable institution than anything else. Anybody that had five cents or a quarter, and wanted to give it, could give it.

Q. What do you mean by a strike—a railroad strike—what is the usual custom—what do you mean by it?

Q. Is it customary, in railroad strikes, for the men who quit work, to stop others from working, by violence or otherwise?

A. Only by persuasion. I have heard about a great many men being stopped, but, if our railroad men would get up and testify—I have heard railroad men claim that they wanted to work, but there was not one of them, that was not in the mire just as deep, while the thing was going on.

Q. Can you give us the names of any men that would be willing to appear before our committee, and give information about the strike or their grievances?

A. Yes; an engineer by the name of John Hassler, residing on Wood street, the second or third door to the left of Bidwell. I think he would be an important witness; also, an engineer by the name of William Robb. He lives in the lower part of Allegheny somewhere, but I cannot tell his residence exactly.

Q. You say that the union does not exist now. Do you know of any other organization that is organized to produce the same effect.

A. No; no more than what has always been in existence. The locomotive engineers, of course, have their union.

Q. In company with some other gentlemen, did you call on the mayor during the disturbance in July last; and, if so, give us the circumstances?

A. On the evening of the 21st of July, (Saturday,) between seven and eight o'clock, I heard that parties had got into some gun stores, and I went to my friend Mr. Bown, and then found Mr. Edward Myers; and after talking a while, we thought it would be prudent to see the mayor, and tell him that we thought it would be prudent to get a posse, and come down and protect Mr. Bown's gunshop. We saw the mayor, and said: "You are probably aware that some gun stores have been broken into;" and we implored him to send a posse to protect the gun stores.

A. I do not remember his reply, but he seemed to be very indifferent, and I implored him, for God's sake, to do something, and that we three would volunteer, and that probably with fifty men or less we could protect Mr. Bown's store.

Q. Did he say in response to your application—did he say whether he had the policemen or not, or did he make any excuse that he could not raise them?

A. No; I do not think he made any reply in regard to his police. I was aware that his police were small and scattered around the city, and my idea was to have him swear in some of us as special police.

A. Yes; Mr. Bown left his store and came to my store, and while there, we heard the mob.

A. Two hours, at least—two hours—an hour and a half or two hours. Before the mob got there, I went back to Mr. Bown's store, and asked him if there was no place to secrete the arms, and they took them down into the cellar and vault and secreted a good many of them.

A. Yes; I saw the mob in the store, but not in front of the store, because we had gone in the rear private way. We could see the store full of people—probably one hundred to one hundred and fifty were in the store.

A. They did not seem to me to be any particularly riot element, so far as appearances were concerned. They did not look like tramps or roughs.

A. I am only speaking about that gun shop, and I think that from thirty to fifty determined men could have prevented the riot at that place.

A. Yes; I said for God's sake do something to protect that gun store. I looked at it this way: That it would be terribly fatal if the mob were to get in and get guns and ammunition.

A. I belong to the firm of James Bown & Son. Our place of business is located on Wood street, and our business is cutlery and guns and revolvers, and all kinds of sportsmen's articles.

A. My father went to see the mayor, with Mr. Follensbee. He went early in the day to Mt. Washington, to see a shooting match. We were not aware of any excitement in the city, but word came to me. In the afternoon I saw a telegraphic dispatch from some one about the mayor. It was the mayor's clerk that brought it down—setting forth that there was a mob organized to break into the different gun stores that evening. I judge between five and six o'clock that came down. He wanted me to remove all our arms. I said that it was so late in the day that I did not know where to place them—that we had a large number, but that, nevertheless, we would try to remove all we possibly could. I then got both the porters and took the arms out of the windows, and a lot of ammunition, cartridges, and cans of powder, and I got some paper and covered over it, to convey the impression to those passing along that we were about cleaning the window, and I left the paper there to disguise it. I had not commenced to take out the arms in the cases. We had two cases that run about sixty feet long. I went to supper, and about six o'clock, when I came back, I found six policemen at the store, but the mayor's clerk came down about seven o'clock, and said they were required at the Central station. Shortly after that father came. He could not get into the front, from the fact that we had the wire across and the screens put up, and I had also gone out and got a couple of scantlings, and put them against the doors, and braced them against the counters. I did not anticipate that they would break in the large glass windows. We had commenced to take down the arms and put them in the magazine, which we have in the cellar, where we keep the powder, and we got down, I should judge about forty, and were kept pretty busy in getting them down, when the large alarm bell struck and I heard the glass go. I came up the stairs, and when I got to the top I found they had knocked the lock off, and I immediately went down, but I could not find the key. I was in my shirt sleeves at the time, but I closed the bolt and put out the gas and came up stairs, and just as I came up I met two parties right at my desk—I had a desk where I do my correspondence—and one of them says, "why in the hell don't you turn up the gas?" I suppose he took me for one of the party who came in. I passed him and went on up stairs, and stayed there until after the racket was over.

A. On the lower floor; of course they came up stairs, and then I went up to the third floor.

A. What we term from the south side—I judge workingmen. They would just come to the cases and break them in. A few of them had old muskets.

Q. After these policemen were taken up to the central station, did any of them return?

A. That I cannot say, but I understood from those that came in after the mob went away, that they were out there, but the mob was too large for them to handle.

A. It was reported that there would be an attempt made on the different gun stores.

A. Yes; because at that time there was no excitement at the lower end of the city.

A. I understood that, but I did not see them. I was in the store at the time, and did not come down, because I thought discretion was the better part of valor.

A. I did not notice. I think a fictitious name was to it. I did not notice any name to it, particularly. It was the mayor's clerk. It was late, and all our help had gone off, and the boys had gone to supper, and I was alone, with the two porters.

A. Something over four hundred. They took everything—carving knives, butcher knives, and forks, and ammunition, and cutlery—everything they could take.

A. I may say that Mr. Bown, senior, came over to my place, and he and Mr. Folensbee went with me up to the mayor, to notify him to send policemen down. After we went there, the mayor at first said he was unable to send any assistance, as the police were scattered through the city, but he would do the best he could. We went to Mr. Johnston's gun shop, a short distance above the mayor's office, and staid there awhile, and came down to the mayor's office, and then walked down to Mr. Bown's establishment, and remained there sometime, without the police coming. Then Mr. Bown and myself went back again, but on the way we met them coming up—we met them coming up—some six or eight of the police—coming; and there were at least six or eight policemen there during the disturbance. The crowd that came up, I don't think, at first numbered over seventy-five or eighty—half grown boys. There seemed to be half a dozen armed with muskets, but a large crowd was collected around the streets.

A. Nothing, whatever; but they staid there. I spoke to the mayor's clerk; I said there were not enough of them to do anything, but they staid there.

A. They apparently had a few muskets and guns with them, as far as I could tell.

A. Not as policeman specially, but I offered to do anything that I could to defend the place—not to the mayor, but to Mr. Bown. Mr. Follensbee, I believe, did.

A. Yes; my impression at that time was, that fifteen or twenty determined persons could have stopped the whole rumpus in front of Mr. Bown's place.

A. Not that I know of. The mayor told me that his police force was scattered around so that he was unable to get together enough to be of any special service. But they did, however, gather up six or eight of them, and they came down here.

A. I believe it was on Saturday—I think that was the 20th of July—that I came up to the city. I had been home sick for almost two months before that time. I went out to Twenty-eighth street, and at the time I went there I found a very considerable crowd of men there. I knew a very few of them. The great majority of them seemed to be strangers. I say this from the fact that owing to my political knowledge in the city, having made many political speeches here, I had gotten to know a great many men. When I came to Twenty-eighth street that afternoon, about two o'clock, I found a large number of men—probably from twelve hundred to fifteen hundred—right across the railroad track at Twenty-eighth street. I met some men I knew, and we were talking over the probability of a difficulty between the troops and the strikers; and these men, or one of them, said there was no danger of the soldiers firing on them—that the people of the State of Pennsylvania were with the strikers in this matter. Whilst we were talking in that way, the Philadelphia soldiers came up the railroad. I was asked the question two or three time, whether or not I thought the soldiers would fire on the citizens, and I said I would not trust them, and, so far as I am concerned, I am going to get out of the road. They are strangers here, and if ordered to fire will fire. If they don't, they are not good soldiers. I was standing then right in front of what they called the sand-house. Three or four gentlemen were there at the time with me, and John Cluley, the painter. I said to them: now, I have had a little military experience during the last war, and I said we will get out of this and go down the hill-side. I got them to go with me. The Philadelphia men came up, and formed on both sides of the track, clearing the track by forming a square, open at the lower end. At this time I was on the hill-side, about eighty or ninety feet, probably one hundred feet, above where they had formed. In that formation of the square there was a portion of a company—I suppose about twenty or twenty-five men—that had yellow plumes in their hats—Philadelphia men—who were swung off from the left of the square, and tried to force back the mob from Twenty-eighth street. Failing in that, then a company was brought up from the lower end of the square—brought right up between the two lines in this way, [illustrating,] right past where the Gatling guns were stationed, and brought face to face with the mob. They marched up until they were within probably twenty-five or thirty feet of the mob, and then halted for about a second. At that time I noticed the sheriff's posse standing in front of where they were standing, trying to get the mob to move back. Then these men moved at a charge bayonet, and went right up to the mob, and I saw several of the mob catch the bayonets and push them down. Then I saw three or four stones thrown from the little watch-house. These stones were thrown right through into this company coming up. Then I heard a pistol shot fired, and probably two or three seconds after that three or four other pistols shots were fired just like that, [illustrating,] and then I saw two or three of the soldiers go down. Then the stones began to fly down along the line, in among the soldiers, and the firing first began right across the railroad track. I don't know what company or regiment it was, but they had black feathers. They were right in front of this square, and the first musket firing began there. I noticed that. Then I heard, probably a dozen of boys hallo shoot! shoot! down along the line, then the pistol shots began, and the musket shots began, and I got down in a ditch behind where I was, and staid there until it was all over.

A. I won't be sure about that. I saw some of the officers strike up the guns with their swords, and I saw some pulling of the men backwards inside the square. Then, just right after that, there was a general volley right along the line.

A. No; nor do I believe any order was given. I say that, for the reason that, had there been an order or command given, there would have been simultaneous firing, but it seemed to me, when the fighting commenced, that everybody was taking care of himself.

Q. That is, they were protecting themselves from something that was going to injure them?

A. No; but as fast as a man got his gun loaded he would fire, and as fast as the others could get a brick they would throw it.

A. Right by me, on my right hand an old man, and a little girl on my left hand, were shot dead. I got into the ditch, and I know it was full—the ditch.

A. No; but when I came up from the ditch—it is not a regular ditch, but a wash down the hillside—when I raised up, somebody else was shot, and I got down again. When I raised up the second time everything was quiet. I looked down over the bank, and several men were lying there dead.

A. No; she was shot right through the knee, and I pulled her down into the ditch and tied a handkerchief around her leg. There was a physician there—I think Dr. Schnatterly, of Bellevue, and he took charge of her, and I heard she died that night.

A. None at all; but I had never seen a strike before, and I went up to see what it looked like. Right down along the railroad there was probably ten feet of ground, or twelve feet—right along the railroad, in front of the troops, occupied by a class of men that I had never seen in the city of Pittsburgh before—ragged looking and dirty looking. There is one thing about Pittsburgh people, that you can tell them on the street—at least, I think, I can. I walking along the street, if a man comes from Philadelphia or any other place, I think I can tell him. In other words, I know he don't belong here. I don't know the reason why, but we get to notice our own people, and I say that that crowd of people along there I never saw before. They looked here [illustrating] like people that I never saw before. I believe them to be strangers not only to Pittsburgh and Allegheny county, but to Western Pennsylvania, and, in fact, to the State of Pennsylvania.

A. The road runs along six feet below the bank, and then the bank runs back about fifty feet, and then the hill commences for one hundred or one and fifty feet above that.

A. Yes; and just here I will give another reason why I believe that crowd to be strangers in the city of Pittsburgh. The most of our men here—our laboring men—wear dark clothes, but I saw men in that crowd with light pantaloons, and yellow pantaloons, and two men with velveteen coats, and those men seemed to me to be making the most noise down in front of the soldiers. At that time, in my mind, I thought they were tramps. Of course, I can't say that of the whole crowd, but I say that the men making the demonstrations were men of that class.

A. Yes; in firing, very unfortunately, they fired over the heads of the people there, and killed the people above. If they had lowered their guns eight inches they would have killed a class of men that we could very well get rid of.

A. Some went up the hill-side, and the mob in front of Twenty-eighth street, ran down Twenty-eighth street to Penn.

A. Yes; I suppose the firing lasted a minute and a half. The soldiers began firing right down the line, and probably some of them fired four or five shots. When the crowd broke, they ran up among the people on the hill-side, and some of them ran into the ditch where I was. The rest of them went on up the hill-side. I noticed one thing, that the old soldiers dropped flat down when the firing commenced, while the others ran.

Q. Do you think that force of soldiers, with twenty rounds of ammunition, could have held their position and kept the crowd off during the night?

A. Not as strangers, they could not do it. I mean this—had that force been posted as to the situation here, they could have done that—they could have kept the mob off with half their number; but not being acquainted, I think they did about the only thing they could do. The only thing lacking under the circumstances—I have had my own opinion since that time as to what I think I would have done, without any more knowledge of military affairs than I learned in the army, and I would have taken charge of this ditch that I was in, and have put the men in there for the purpose of controlling the round-house and the tracks below. But then there was a danger to be taken into consideration, that along the hill above this ditch, there were houses on the hill-side occupied by railroad men and by strikers, and by men in sympathy with them, so there would have been a danger there, because there would have been firing from the rear—in other words, if people had gone on the hill-side, and opened fire down from the hill-side, they would have had to abandon the ditch—or, on the other hand—my idea of the matter would have been to have picketed Penn avenue and Liberty street very heavily, and have kept those streets clear, from Twenty-eighth street clear down. When you consider that a crowd or a mob is always cowardly, so that the firing of eight or ten men into it will break it, I really believe that the best plan would have been to have picketed Penn avenue and Liberty street—to have kept these streets clear, and then if necessary, to have picketed the upper side of the railroad track, which would have formed a square of pickets, whereby to preserve the cars. Yet, at the same time, I will say that these picket lines would have been subjected to a fire from both sides—from the hill-side above, and from the houses below. I went home on the six o'clock train that evening.

Q. Could General Brinton have taken his troops then, and marched them down towards the Union depot, and kept the crowd back, or kept the crowd above?

A. No; but the mistake that General Brinton made was this, that when he began firing he should have kept it up.

Q. Do you think, in your judgment, with the number of men they had, with twenty rounds of ammunition, and with more ammunition over in the Union depot, that they could have maintained their ground there and kept up the firing, and kept the mob back, and kept up communications with Union depot, in order to replenish their ammunition?

A. If he had continued his firing from the time the firing began at Twenty-eighth street, most undoubtedly he could. But after that, when General Brinton got into the round-house, where there are open windows—the house is perfectly round—at that time he was at the mercy of every building.

Q. But I am speaking of the time before he went into the round-house, and after the crowd had dispersed—at that time had he continued firing, could he have maintained his position and kept the crowd away?

A. Yes; fifty men armed as those men were armed—because I noticed that every time a gun struck, it tore a hole like that. [Illustrating.] Following that mob would have dispersed them.

Q. From your experience in the army, and from what you saw of the conduct of the troops at Twenty-eighth street, would you say that their conduct was good as military men?

A. No, sir; not a bit of it. Every man that fired first should have been taken out and shot. In other words, I mean that there was not a particle of discipline. I say that for this reason: There was no order given to fire by any officer. I believe that to be the fact, because I was on the hill side not more than sixty or eighty feet away from where the firing began, and I had been there some two hours before the firing did begin. I was standing there wondering how the men were going to clear the tracks, and when the fight began I was listening very closely in order to hear what command would be given by the officer in command. Then this fuss began with three or four pistol shots, and then the bricks and stones were thrown, and then more pistol shots, and then it was every man for himself. So far as those soldiers were concerned, I have said since, and believe it to be a fact, that it was one mob armed against another mob not armed.

Q. Was not the conduct of those soldiers as good as could be expected from militia men?

A. I do not know that. I have seen militia men during the war that would walk up to the scratch, and stay there. The great trouble with militia men is that they fire too high.

Q. Do you think there was any real necessity for calling on the militia for assistance here?

A. I would not like to give any opinion about that. I know that the sheriff started out a lot of his deputies to get a lot of lawyers out here, and the lawyers went out—of the back windows, and every other way they could get out. I never believed that the sheriff exhausted all his power.

Q. You believe, then, it was necessary to call out the military—that the difficulty had got beyond the control of the civil authorities?

A. I believe that. I believe it was necessary to call out the military—but to use them. In explanation of that, I would say this: that even after the military were here, that the city of Pittsburgh was panic struck, and that young men were taken up on the streets and were furnished with arms, privately by the different banks, to go in and guard the banks, because, on the Monday night following the burning, it was rumored on the streets—on Fifth avenue, and on Wood, and on Smithfield streets—that the banks were to be attacked that night, and I know of several banks in the city that were guarded by young men picked up throughout the city. I believe it to be a fact, that, had the trouble lasted two days longer, there would have been a vacation of the city by the women and the children in the city of Pittsburgh. I believe they would have gotten out of town.

Q. You state you spoke to some people about the probability of the troops firing on the crowd. Who were those people?

Pursuant to adjournment the committee re-assembled at three o'clock, P.M., this day, and continued the taking of testimony.

Q. What sympathy did the rioters seem to get from the surrounding crowds of spectators?

A. I can hardly say; I was one of the party myself. Do you mean after they were fired into?

A. On Saturday, the 20th of July, the general feeling seemed to be, up to the time of the firing, that the Pennsylvania Railroad Company had not done exactly what was right with their employés.

A. I cannot say about the community, because I was at my home sick for six weeks before that time. I can only speak of the crowd that was there at the same time I was. So far as that was concerned, I suppose they felt about as I did, that as they were getting pretty good pay for their shipments, and everything of that kind, it seemed to be kind of rough, to cut down their wages so much. It was a kind of general feeling, that the railroad company had not done exactly what was right with their employés, but I found nobody who could give me a definite explanation of the reason why the people of Pittsburgh should be against the railroad company—that is, I could not find anybody who could give me any reason why there should be any strike between the people of the city and the railroad company, on account of the way the railroad company had treated their employés; but immediately after the fire was over, I did not hear any question of that kind raised. The prevailing question was how we were going to get out of the trouble we were in.

Q. In your judgment, would it not have been proper for the officer in command of the military force, at five o'clock on Saturday afternoon, to have given the command to fire?

A. Yes; my recollection is, I heard an order given by some officer, commanding either a company or a regiment of the Philadelphia soldiers up at the front of the line that was formed there—an order given to those men to disperse and go back, and I think he gave the order in this way: "Now," he says, "why don't you men go back?" It was half a minute after that when I heard the first pistol shot fired, and then from that the firing began. I think, that when the order was given to go back and clear the tracks, that he would have been justified in ordering the men to fire, although I heard no order to fire.

A. I do not know. I simply know this. That certain troops or uniformed men came up the Pennsylvania railroad from the depot, and formed in line in front of the upper round-house, at the corner of Twenty-eighth street, and at that time some of our Pittsburgh soldiers were on the hill side above—some of our Allegheny county soldiers on the hill side above.

Q. Do you know anything about the conduct of the Pittsburgh troops called out here during that day, or any time during the riot?

A. No; except this far, that when I came up to Twenty-eighth street, and before the Philadelphia soldiers came up there, I walked across Twenty-eighth street, up the hill side, where there was part of a company—part of one of the western Pennsylvania companies, or a Pittsburgh company, I do not know which it was, and when I got to the top of the hill side I was a good deal out of breath——

A. Before the firing—probably an hour before. There was one of the private soldiers belonging to some company—I do not know any thing about him. He had a uniform on, and I asked him the question: "How long have you been here?" and he said, "since last night." I said, "how long are you going to stay here?" and he says, "I don't know." I said, "you may likely be called upon to clear the tracks down there;" and he said, "they may call on me, and they may call pretty damn loud before they will clear the tracks." At the same time, I looked in the man's face, and I thought he might be called upon to all eternity before he would do anything reasonable. The company, at that time, was scattered—standing all around.

A. Yes; I know that after the firing, one dead soldier was carried down from about the spot where I had been talking to this man, down to the Twenty-eighth street crossing.

A. Some of them were down on the railroad track, and some were on the hill-side, and some were around their guns, and some were back towards the hospital.

Q. You spoke about those strange men you thought were strangers in Pittsburgh, that had come from a distance. Have you any knowledge of people coming to Pittsburgh at any time previous to the 19th of July?

A. I can say this in reference to that, but as a lawyer I would say that part of it is hearsay evidence, that is, I do not know it to be a fact myself. I live below Pittsburgh, about seven miles, on the Fort Wayne road, at Laurel station, and I know from the time I went down last spring, we had much trouble with tramps. Probably two or three, or four or five, or six or seven, would be there every day. But about four days before this trouble—it was on the Friday before this trouble—at that time I was not at home sick—I recollect my wife saying to me, that "we have had no tramps down here for the last few days," and I said, "they will come back again," and until after the rioting and the burning here, we had but one tramp at our house, until the third day after—that was on Sunday. Then they began to come back every day. I have heard others of my neighbors say the same thing. And almost every night, looking from my library towards the river, I could see along the river bank that these tramps would have fires, and I have seen, when I would come down to the train in the morning—I have seen as high as fifteen or twenty around these fires. But for two or three days before the riot—that is, before the burning here, and for one or two days after that time, I noticed very few of those fires, if any, and we were not troubled with these tramps at our house; and after the trouble was all over, it made such an impression on me, that I loaded a double-barreled shot gun, and told my wife how to use it, and told her if they came around not to do anything for them. I did not consider them fit subjects for charity.

A. It is the cutlery business—guns and sporting goods in general—manufacturing.

Q. I wish you to state what efforts you made to protect your store on the night of the 21st—Saturday night. You went to see the mayor. What efforts did you make?

A. I was absent from the city until about seven and a half o'clock that evening, and when I came to the store I found it was shut up. I met my second son there, and I asked him what the trouble was. Well, he said the mob had broken into some of the pawnbrokers, up in the Fifth ward, and also into one of our competitor's. I asked him where my other son was, and he said at the back end of the store. I got into the back yard and went into the store and found them there making preparations to take some of the valuable guns into the cellar—into the vault. It looked as if things were serious. I said, "I will go out and look around, and see what the trouble is." They commenced to put away the goods as fast as they could. Of course they had to use great judgment about taking the fine guns into the cellar. I was away perhaps half an hour. As soon as I went out into the alley, I met Mr. Follensbee and Mr. Myers. I said, "Things look serious around here." The mayor's clerk was there, Mr. Metzgar, and perhaps half a dozen people were congregated in the alley. He said, "Gentlemen, you had better disperse. We would rather not have anybody around here, so as not to excite anybody." I told him it was a good suggestion, and Mr. Myers and Mr. Follensbee and myself went into our yard. It was then pretty near dark. I said, "Let us go up to Smithfield street, and see what they are doing." I understood there was quite a crowd in front of Mr. Johnston's, another competitor of our's. We went up the alley and then turned to the left and went down towards Sixth avenue. An immense crowd was in front of this gun store, but had done no damage. Several policemen were in front of the store. In going through the crowd several sang out, "Let's go down to Bown's, and clean him out." I said, "That sounds pretty loud, and we had better go and see if the mayor won't send back some police." We came back to the mayor's office, and there the mayor was, standing outside. I went up to him, and addressed him as "Mac." I am rather familiar with him. I said, "We require some extra police down there, as they are going down to our store to clean us out." He said, "I will do all I can for you," and said that a good many police were up at Mr. Johnston's. I said, "It is necessary to act quick and prompt, as the crowd is now moving, and it won't take them long to come there." Mr. Follensbee spoke up, and said, "I will be one of fifty special police." I do not think he made any reply to that, but he said, "I will send some down." With that I left, and came down to the store again. Some people were in front of the store, and I think among them, perhaps, were two or three policemen—I think there were. I was more interested in securing the things just at that time, so I went into the store again, and the boys were still working, taking down the guns. They had got the pistols—the greater portion of them—into a safe we had, and Mr. Follensbee suggested to me to come around to Fifth avenue to his store. I went back through Mr. Carter's store, and went with him into his store. I was not in there two minutes until an immense rush of people came past the store, and they shoved the doors to. I said, "Open the doors, I want to see what the trouble is." I was running across the street when a friend of mine said, "There is no use in your going; they have got in." I knew a road coming through another gentleman's store and through Mr. Carter's store, and got into the back yard. The crowd was then in the store and securing all the things as fast as they could. Then Mr. Follensbee followed after me. Of course, he remonstrated outside as well he could. Everything was barricaded up so that we could not get in. I will tell you one thing that occurred there. A negro had got at my private desk and got open the drawers, and was pulling out the things, and had got among the postage stamps when we hallooed at him. The language we used was pretty severe, and he dropped everything and ran. In a few minutes, as soon as things were quieted down, we got a policeman—we tapped for him to come and open a window, and we got in. Of course, then the destruction had taken place.

Q. How long after you made that call on the mayor was it that they broke into the store?

A. Some were there in front, but I cannot say how many. Some came after the thing was over, but whether they were outside, I do not know.

A. They took everything—knives and pistols and spoons and forks and carving knives and fishing tackle, and everything they could.

A. We got four out of the lot—those were left by parties—men that came out with three or four and just handed them to us. They preserved them for us.

A. No; we had a good many guns with marks on them—numbers, and some guns—a special kind of guns—that there are very few of here.

Q. State whether you were in the city during Thursday, the 19th, and during Friday.

A. I cannot say as to Thursday or Friday—I do not think that I was. I was on Saturday.

A. On Saturday I was one among the deputies instructed by the sheriff to get up a posse. I went along several of the streets and asked several parties to come up. Some said they would come and some said they would not. However, not more than one or two came. We went on up to Union depot to the railroad and from there went up with the military to Twenty-eighth street. There appeared to be a crowd on both sides of the railroad, and along the railroad, as we went up. There was a great deal of turmoil and noise. We were not up there more than a few minutes until the firing commenced. Stones and pieces of bricks were thrown before the firing commenced.

A. Some said they would not go under any consideration and others promised to go, but did not come when the time came.

A. I think there were from twelve to eighteen of us ahead of the militia from Union depot up to Twenty-eighth street.

Q. Whereabouts did the sheriff's posse stand when the stones began to be thrown?

A. Some were on Twenty-eighth street, and part of the party were on this side a little piece, not more than ten or twelve feet apart.

A. On the crossing at Twenty-eighth street. Part of the crowd had got in between me and most of the others and the militia. We got mixed up at that time.

A. The first firing appeared to be up the hill, and the second up the railroad where we were standing.

A. I came over in the morning about nine o'clock. I live just above the top of the hill.

Q. How many policemen would it have taken to have driven them away at that time?

Q. What effort was made by the sheriff and his posse, or deputies, to clear the track before the military came up?

A. They tried to get them off the track—they talked to some of them, but they appeared to want to get at the military. When we got to the crossing, part of the party got away, and that is how a part of the mob got in between us and the military.

A. I think so—I was close enough. There appeared to be a good deal of noise going on at the time.

Q. You were not with the sheriff on Friday night when he went up to Twenty-eighth street?

Q. Do you think a well organized police force would have been able to have driven away the crowd on Saturday morning?

A. I do not know about that. It would have depended on circumstances altogether. It would have taken a pretty good force to have driven them away.

Q. Do you think it would have been possible to have gathered a posse in and about the city—if the sheriff had started out on Saturday morning and made an effort, could he have collected a posse sufficiently large to have driven away the crowd?

Q. By sending out deputies through the county, do you think he could have collected a posse, or not?

A. If all were of the same opinion as the people in town, I do not think he could have got a posse. It would have been pretty hard work.

A. Outside I do not know. In the city, the feeling appeared to be with the strikers altogether.

A. No; I do not say that; but those I had any conversation with—those men I tried to get to go up there.

A. I am doing nothing. At the time of this riot I was a police officer. My occupation is a brick-maker.

A. I was what is called a roundsman here in this city—walking pretty much all over. I wore no uniform. I traveled into different places in the city.

A. I went to Twenty-eighth street where the disturbance was, and found detective McGovern there in charge of a posse of men. A great many railroaders were standing around, not doing anything. Along about three-forty o'clock, they made up a freight train to go out called a double-header—two engines attached to the train. Orders were given by somebody, I don't know who, that four policemen should go on each one of those locomotives. I was, myself, on one locomotive. The engine I was on, a reporter got on. He asked me if there was any danger, and I told him I thought there was, and he got off. They pulled out this train, I guess, about ten or twelve feet, and I didn't see anybody going to stop it. I thought they could very easily have taken it out at that time. I saw a man get on the track and throw his hands up, and with that they stopped, and the engineers and firemen jumped off. The police then on the engines insisted on going ahead. I did, for myself. The last man I saw getting off was a fireman. I said what are you getting off for, and he said he had got to do it.

A. That man—he was a fireman or an engineer—I cannot tell which—he was doing both.

A. One man did it. I think he is in jail now. That evening we had this man McCall in the Twelfth ward station, and there was a rumor that the mob was going to attack the Twelfth ward station and rescue him. I went to that station, and took that man McCall and marched down, putting twenty policemen behind us. We passed through the crowd, and nothing was said, and got down a few squares when there happened to be a friend of mine sitting in a car, and he hallooed at me and said, "For God's sake get in the car." The street was blocked. The car was stopped at the corner of Twenty-fourth and Penn, and we got in with our prisoner. Some of the crowd caught up with us. I had a revolver. One fellow put up a revolver at my ear when I struck him over the face with mine. We still kept on going, and we took our prisoner to the Central station. I didn't get back again that night. I was there again on the 21st, Saturday, and about eleven o'clock that night—Saturday night—I saw this burning. I was on Smithfield street at the time, and met a great many men coming down with goods. The feeling was not good towards me on account of this man McCall. I met a couple of parties with rolls of cloth, and we arrested them, and by morning we had more than a hundred in there for carrying off stuff. On Sunday morning, after the Philadelphia troops left—and before they did leave—we had that man in jail that I saw shooting into them with a breech-loading rifle. I went up to the round-house, and made a search there. I heard Chief Evans state that he saw whisky running into the cellar of the round-house. I don't know where there is a cellar to the round-house, but there is a cellar to the carpenter shop.

A. The carpenter-shop is on the right, and there was a space of thirty or forty feet between them. The Philadelphia troops I saw leave the round-house. They came out and formed, and went off.

A. Dispersed and secreted themselves in buildings and every place. I went as far as Seventeenth street—the crowd had started, too—then the fire had not got that far. It was about the middle of the day. We stopped there, and during the time we were there undertook to prevent parties from breaking open the cars and setting them on fire, which we did succeed in stopping some. Afterwards I saw men dropping coal down below the track, and rolling barrels of oil down and setting them on fire. They were strangers to me. We couldn't get the force apparently together. If we had got them together at that time, a hundred men would have subdued the riot at that time, because it was apparently the work of boys. There were not as many men as boys, but the force had got scattered.

A. I saw the first car fired to drive the Philadelphia troops out. It was a car on the Valley track. It was set on fire, and a wheel of it was chocked. They dropped other cars down against it, and they caught on fire, until it got pretty hot. But this carpenter-shop didn't take fire for some time. I helped to shove some cars away back from the entrance leading in between the round-house and the carpenter-shop. Those cars didn't catch on fire.

A. They kept back towards Twenty-seventh street. They had a gun there. A man named Stewart I saw carried away from there dead. He was apparently a railroader. He had a watch with that name on it. I went to see the gun, and if they had ever fired it, it never would have hurt anybody in the round-house—if they had ever fired it. The wall is too high there.

Q. What was it that caused that crowd to be scattered? Was it fear of fire from the soldiers?

Q. Suppose they had formed in line, at that time, and marched on the crowd what would have been the effect?

A. They would have got the best of the crowd because I didn't see many around there.

A. I was on other duty that day—I was on a little special duty that day, but was detailed and sent to where this trouble was supposed to be. I was to meet the men where I was going. About this Officer Motts. On Saturday night the mayor was in the Twelfth ward, and shortly after I went there I saw him there, and on Sunday morning. On Sunday he was on the railroad. I was standing alone, and he came to me and said to me, for God's sake get some men, you can stop them from breaking into these cars. I went towards the crowd, but there was no use for one man—but I did. They then commenced to hurl stones.

A. Yes; using all the efforts he could to stop the riot; but we could not get the men together. Our force had been cut down, and it was impossible to get the men together. I asked men to stand alongside of me, but as soon as you would turn your head around again they were gone. In relation to Johnston and Bown's gun shops—I was at both places. At Johnston's, a demand was made for guns, and they gave them some muskets. I don't think that Johnston's was broke in.

A. That was what was said. I know I took a musket with a bayonet on from a fellow, and gave it back to the store. I was sent by the mayor's clerk to Bown's—some eight of us—but there were no uniformed men among us; we were in citizen's clothes. It was a hard matter to tell what they wanted; but eight of us went there at the time. Then this party came along Wood street, and they had a drum with them, and some of them had muskets with bayonets on, and others had revolvers, and others, what I took to be a large rammer, and they commenced ramming against the door. Officer Downey was one of the first officers to the store. I got in with him. They were then carrying out the stuff, and we took several guns from them and handed them back. They were still carrying out the stuff, and it was impossible to prevent them breaking in, because the force was not strong enough.

A. The men that were there were not in the habit of carrying maces. I suppose they had billies and revolvers. The proper course to save Bown's store would have been to let eight or nine men get in there and arm them, and then keep them out there.

A. Principally on plunder; I don't think that many of those guns taken out there ever went into the riot.

A. Yes; according to the looks of the shelves and show cases. There were a couple of men arrested for stealing from that establishment, that are now doing terms in the western penitentiary.

A. I did not; their faces to me were apparently strange—they apparently looked like workingmen. A great many thieves were among them, and some, I know, have had to leave the city since, or we would have had them.

Q. You were about the city a good deal attending to your duties, and you know a large part of the population?

Q. That crowd of men that went out there on Saturday and Sunday—was the crowd composed of men about the city?

A. No; they were pretty much all strangers; the biggest portion of them were strange men.

Q. In your duties as a roundsman, had you noticed any unusual influx of strangers into the town?

A. I had—a great many. We had a large crowd of them, I believe from Cumberland—in the neighborhood of twenty-five or thirty—that is, one batch, and I took notice of others.

A. It would have attracted my attention, and I have been following up that business for my living for eight or nine years.

A. The first I noticed of them was on Saturday night, when I got into the Twelfth ward. To show you that there were a great many people that didn't belong in the city, I arrested some nine or ten up there that night, and among that nine or ten, eight of them belonged to Allegheny, and their faces were all strange to me.

Q. How deep is a round-house generally dug out—from the top of the rails down?

Q. Could the trains have been run out that afternoon, if the engineers and firemen had gone?

A. Yes; they could have taken this train out I was on—I don't know how far, though. They had four policemen on each engine to protect the engineers and firemen, and from what I understood, there were men to be put along on the train to protect the brakemen.

A. No; not until Saturday. I remained there until Sunday morning, about eight o'clock.

Q. How large a posse could you have raised in the city to go out there and restore order, if the mayor had made a call, or a demand for a posse?

A. I might have got in the neighborhood of one hundred men. There were but one hundred and twenty men, and some of them were there.

Q. But from any class of men in the city—if he had just called for a posse from any source—for extra men?

A. He could not have got many at that time. Wherever I went, to judge from the talk, the people were all in sympathy with the mob.

A. Shorty after the riot. I think he did it as quickly as he could get the men together. I think he tried all he could to prevent this riot, which he don't get the credit for here. He ordered me on Sunday morning to go to the fire department, about one o'clock, and I went in search of the chief, in company with another officer, Motts. He did the talking. I didn't talk to him myself. We went to look for the chief, and could not find him. We went down to Twenty-first street and Penn street, and we saw a foreman there—I believe, in fact, several of the fire department were there, and we requested them to come and play on the fire, that the mayor had sufficient force, and that he would protect them, and the answer I don't remember, but I know they didn't come up and play on the fire. They were not going to run the danger.

A. I suppose they are still on the fire department. The mayor at that time had dispatched from the Twelfth ward station for police, and had got, I guess, sixty or may be more. I know that many, for I knew the lieutenant that came up.

Q. If they had played on the burning cars could they have prevented those buildings from getting on fire?

A. I can't be certain. A number were in there at that time—a great many. They were shoved in the stalls. There would, apparently, be one in each.

A. I was close to the doors, and if there had been any fire—in case of a fire I would have seen it.

A. I saw a portion of them come out of the entrance on Twenty-sixth street, and I think a portion of them came out of the rear end of the carpenter shop. I saw some twenty-five or thirty come out.

A. I did everything, so far as I could, at that time. I didn't know much about it until Saturday evening. Our time for going on duty was eight o'clock in the evening. I went on at seven o'clock, and had orders from the lieutenant to go down and notify each tavern-keeper to close his saloon, at the request of the mayor. I did so, and we were distributed in the vicinity of Twenty-eighth street. There was a large crowd at Twenty-eighth street and Twenty-sixth street, and the crowd increased up to eleven o'clock.

A. All along Penn street. I went up about eleven o'clock, and stayed looking around for a while at Twenty-eighth street, and then came down as far as Twenty-sixth street, and went back again, and just as I got at the corner of Twenty-eighth and Penn streets I saw the fire, and I ran up Liberty street and saw a car of oil. I then ran down and pulled the alarm, and just as I pulled the alarm I was thrown out in the street. Just then the mayor passed me, and asked me what the car was, and I told him it was a car of oil. He asked me if I pulled the alarm, and I said yes. I didn't see any engine coming. I went down then to the Twelfth ward station-house, and I asked the captain if he had pulled the alarm, and he said he had tried to, but couldn't. I then went down a little piece, and saw an engine and the Independence hose carriage standing at Twenty-fourth or Twenty-fifth street. Somebody made a remark that they would not let them come up any further—that they had threatened to shoot them. I stayed around there all that night, and on Sunday morning, after the Philadelphia troops left——

A. They were in this round-house and in the carpenter shop. They appeared to come out of the west end of the carpenter shop.

A. On to Liberty, and then down Twenty-fifth street to Penn. Some were deployed as skirmishers, at the head of the column. They appeared to be pretty well frightened.

A. Not to my knowledge—so far as I saw. I only stayed a few minutes, and went over into the round-house and carpenter shop. I went into, I believe, where D. O. Shater had his office, on the east end of the round-house. I went in there, and went in through the round-house into the carpenter shop.

A. I knew nothing of it until I got out of bed on Thursday, that was the first I heard of it.

A. They appeared to be tramps—fellows hunting for work, but who didn't want it.

A. Yes; that week there had been a great many traveling back and forward on the streets.

A. It appeared to be the beginning of the week of the riot—for six or eight days previous.

A. I had noticed it on Penn street, particularly. A great many were going in and out. They would ask me where there was a place to stay over night, or if they could stay at the station-house, and I always directed them to the Young Men's Home.

Q. Did they come there in larger numbers than usual—that is, in larger crowds than six or eight or ten?

A. Sometimes I would see one or two, and then six, and they increased to as high as eight in a party.

A. The machine shop was on fire—thirty or forty feet on the east side—that is, sixty feet from the east end of the round-house.

Q. Do you know anything about any oil cars that were dropped down on the Pennsylvania railroad towards the round-house?

A. They were afire when I saw them. I don't know how close to the round-house they went.

Q. You don't know of any obstructions placed on the tracks that prevented them from running clear to the round house?

Q. Was there much heat in the round-house when you got there, soon after the troops left?

A. The machine shop was on fire. How long it had been burning before, I cannot say. It was burning when I went into D. O. Shafer's office.

Q. Had you any conversation with freight conductors up to the time of the riot, or before that time in relation to any contemplated strike?

A. Not on Penn street. I saw a man who is in jail now, firing from the corner of Twenty-sixth and Penn streets.

A. I saw two cars of high wines on fire. They had stopped them in front of the superintendent's office, and they were throwing water out of the windows to put the fire out. When I went up there I saw it was high wines.

Q. Could that have run into the cellar of the buildings or the superintendent's office?

A. It would have taken a good bit, for the stone sill was eight or ten inches from the ground, and it would take a great deal to run in there, though a barrel might have rolled in through the window.

A. I am not sure. Yes; it is below, the bottom part of it, but along the window sill, I think, it is five or six inches, may be more.

A. The inside of it is, but the outside is about six or eight inches above the ground. I would have to send up to be sure about it.

Q. Were you connected with the fire department of the city of Pittsburgh last July?

A. We had eleven steam fire engine companies and two hose companies and three trucks in the city of Pittsburgh last July, and an average of about seven men to a company. But we didn't have a full force on. Our appropriations ran short, and we were compelled to put off some twenty-two men just previous to the riot.

A. One hundred and four, telegraph operators and all—a working force of about ninety-eight men.

A. The first alarm, the night of the riot, occurred on the 21st of July, I think—I am not positive—and was sent in about fifteen minutes after ten o'clock. I was then at engine house No. 7, on Penn avenue, near the corner of Twenty-third street. There were three companies that answered that alarm, and one hose company and one truck. The department was stopped on the street, between Twenty-third and Twenty-eighth street. The crowd caught the horses of No. 7 engine, and drew the fire out of the engine, and made the men pull into the sidewalk. The department did no service on Saturday night, but they went into service when the Philadelphia troops vacated the round-house, on Sunday morning at seven o'clock. Our men went there then; and, if you will allow me, I will tell you why they did not go into service before.

A. Yes; but we considered them in service from the time the alarm struck, though they didn't throw any water. We couldn't get to the round-house building, or to where the fire started, because the mob stopped us. They made the assistant chief engineer get out of his buggy. I sent off the second signal myself from No. 7 engine house when they commenced to fire cars down about Twentieth street. In the meantime, an alarm came in from East Liberty, and we thought it was the cattle yards there. From the corner of Twenty-second and Liberty streets, we laid a line of hose, but they commenced to cut it as soon as we laid it, and they made us take it up again. A fellow put a pistol to my ear and said, take that up.

A. No. I have not seen him since. We reeled the hose up. There was no use in getting it out. We could only get into service when the Philadelphia troops came out of the round-house on Sunday morning.

A. We saved this town from burning down. I don't suppose that ever a body of men worked harder than the Pittsburgh fire department. We did not have a man who was not at his post from ten o'clock on Saturday night until eight o'clock on Monday morning. It was the only body of men in Pittsburgh organized.

A. In the first place, when we went into service, opposite the round-house or the machine-shops, there were a lot of frames or tenement houses that were on fire. Well, we put out this fire, and we kept on following the fire down Liberty street, and kept the buildings wetted down. The fire was very intense—very hot, and it was a continual fight with fire all the way down Liberty street.

A. Sometimes they were ahead, and sometimes along with us; sometimes the rioters kept ahead of the fire, and sometimes they were among us.

Q. They didn't break open the cars and pillage them until the fire started along?

A. There were places on Liberty street where no man could have stood, even to wet the houses down, and where they couldn't have pillaged, because it was too hot, and occasionally along Liberty street there were a lot of coal dumps and some oil bins, and where that occurred the heat was very intense. We had to keep things wetted all the time. Along there the pillagers would sometimes be very plenty.

Q. I suppose all the private property burned caught from the heat of the railroad cars?

Q. If you had been protected by the police, could you have cut the fire and stopped it?

A. I think twenty-five or fifty men, at the outside, could have stopped that burning on Sunday morning. I say that, because there could have been no mistakes. Because, if they had shot some of them down, they could not have made any mistakes. They had no business there.

A. I did not see any force of policemen that day, but the mayor appeared to be moving up and down Liberty street. I saw him talking to the rioters.

Q. After the Philadelphia troops left the round-house, how long was it before it was on fire?

A. It was, I think, on fire when they left, because we went up there right away.

Q. You say that the round-house was on fire, but we have evidence that it was not?

A. The offices that stood between were certainly on fire, because I worked that stream myself, and the heat got so intense at one time, that we had to move the engine away. The round-house could not help being on fire, for that oil sent down would have put anything on fire.

A. As soon as the troops came out, the chief engineer ordered some apparatus there, and we went there at once. There was almost an entire square on Liberty street, all lumber yards and frame shanties, on fire. And this machine shop was on fire. I am not positive about the two round-houses at that time. I was working there myself.

Q. Actively engaged—that is, I want to distinguish between the persons standing around in crowds on the pavements looking on, and the parties actively engaged in the burning?

A. When I was down on Liberty street, there appeared to be a great many people on the railroad track. Of course, they were pillaging then—it was plain—any person could see it. Every now and then you could see the flames bursting out from the cars.

Q. Did you see this crowd—was it an organized effort to follow up the burning—did it seem to be followed systematically?

A. I cannot. I was not on the railroad track that day. Men and women and everything else were on the railroad track.

A. Yes; I got down to Eleventh street, and went to the Pan-Handle railroad yard, and they were breaking the cars open and setting the things on fire. I said to them, don't do it, or you will set the city on fire, and they said they did not care a damn if they did.

A. No; I never saw them before or since. On Saturday evening I was sitting in front of the engine house, and some men came up in front and said, "If there is a fire to-night, I suppose you will turn out." I said, "Certainly," when he said, "If you turn out there will be trouble. We will cut your hose and smash your apparatus."

A. Yes; he talked as if he came for the purpose of letting us know that. There was a great deal of feeling that night.

Q. Did you see a proclamation or any official document of the mayor of the city of Pittsburgh ordering the rum shops and drinking saloons to be closed on Saturday or Sunday?

A. I do not know of seeing it. If a proclamation was issued on Saturday, I was not in the city on Saturday afternoon.

A. No; what occurred in the evening I didn't see. I was up there in the morning, but out of the city in the afternoon.

Q. If a determined effort had been made on Thursday by the mayor with the police force that he had at hand, could he have dispersed the crowd?

A. It could not have been done on Saturday morning, because the mill men had all commenced to gather.

Q. Do you think he could have quelled the trouble without calling on the militia—that the police force could have suppressed the riot?

A. That is something I do not pretend to answer. The militia were called out a day or two previous to that. But I think this, that it was unfortunate for this shooting to have occurred in Pittsburgh. My sympathies were with the strikers, but not up to the point of rioting.

Q. You say you thought on Saturday morning the crowd could not have been dispersed without the militia?

Q. Could the mayor or the sheriff have raised a posse, either in the city or in the county, including both, sufficient to have dispersed the crowd?

A. I think that the mayor of any city of the size of the city of Pittsburgh ought to be able, with his police force, to break up any assemblage of men.

Q. After the sheriff called upon the Governor for troops, didn't that intensify the feeling in Pittsburgh?

A. On Friday afternoon no effort was made. The passenger trains came in on Saturday morning. The troops were mixed with the crowd, and no effort was made to start trains, I went to Allegheny City, and learned of the shooting while coming across the river. I happened to be away when the fun commenced.

At this point the committee adjourned to meet to-morrow morning, at ten o'clock.

Pursuant to adjournment, the committee assembled at ten o'clock A.M., this day, and continued taking of testimony.

A. No; but there was a collection of people. Sometimes there would not be over thirty or forty.

A. No; it was not an infrequent occurrence to see men there. It is a principal street to go up to go to work.

Q. Were the saloons open in that part of the city during Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. Were they closed at all?

A. They began to come—three or four hundred—or two hundred—squads coming from different places all during Saturday night and Sunday morning. Nearly everybody in the city was in that neighborhood—or the biggest part of them.

A. In the neighborhood of ten and half or a quarter to eleven o'clock. A crowd had congregated around the fire-alarm box, and would not let the men pull it.

A. I was about Twenty-eighth street when it broke out. I should judge between Thirty-first and Thirty-second street on the railroad.

A. Yes; with the mayor of the city. I went to Twenty-seventh street, and passed the round-house, and tried to get in a place where it was reported a lady was shot—opposite the round-house. That was after the firing had taken place—about eleven o'clock.

A. No; it was in a small saloon, and I had notified them in the early part of the evening to close, and for that reason they would not let us in.

A. Captain —— McMunn. There had been quite a crowd before they filed on to Penn street, but they all broke.

A. Yes; the cry was raised when they came out that they were going down to the Union depot, and the mob undertook to get down and cut them off.

A. Shortly after that I had to come to the central station and take charge of the prisoners we had arrested.

A. For having goods in their possession—cloth, and everything they could get hold of.

A. Some of them were dismissed, and some were sent to jail, and some were fined.

A. Evidence of having goods in their possession, certainly. We arrested some of them with guns.

A. After getting through with the prisoners, I was then ordered by the mayor to report to the chief engineer of the fire department for duty.

A. I did all I could. Being an engineer by trade, I took spells at running an engine and worked with them after the neighborhood of seven o'clock that evening.

A. Twenty-fifth and Twenty-sixth, and Seventeenth and Sixteenth streets. And from there I went with the fuel wagon.

A. They were there, and doing all they could, but the police was small at that time.

Q. State what part you took in putting out the fire that occurred on the night of the 21st—Saturday night?

A. It was eleven o'clock and twenty minutes when the alarm came first. We started out the house, but we were stopped at the grain elevator. But we got through that crowd, and got on to Penn street, when they began firing at us or at our horses.

A. We turned on to Liberty street, and at Twenty-first and Liberty they hit me with something, and surrounded the horses. Then we turned on to Penn again, but they wouldn't let us move, so we went towards the river and tried to go down to get up further, but they were waiting there. They had some old muskets and carbines and other things, and if we just moved the horses they would come. We changed to different places from one block to another, but they wouldn't let us lay a line, and wouldn't let us throw any water except private property was in danger. We didn't throw any water until after the troops went out of the round-house in the morning.

A. I don't know what part of it, but they set it on fire from Liberty street. They had a hose there, and were throwing water all night. They ran the cars down and tried to set it on fire, but it was all right until the fire got under them.

Q. You say the troops had hose, and kept the fire out until it got under them and drove them out?

Q. Were any buildings attached to the round-house on fire, or buildings near it?

A. They were taking a walk—nobody interfered with the troops. Everybody tried to get out of their road.

Q. During the day—Sunday and Sunday night—were you interfered with by the crowd in throwing water?

A. Different parties kept coming constantly, so that we couldn't do anything. They said: "Don't you throw any water on the railroad property, or we will blow the heads off of you." It was not just one man, but they kept reminding you of it all the time.

A. Yes; I turned a stream on the cars at Union depot, when I suppose twenty revolvers were shot at me.

A. I would have had to call a good while before I would have got any. I didn't see many of them.

A. He spoke to me several times during the night, but never offered me any protection. There was no occasion to offer me any, as both the chiefs were there.

Q. Did he tell you, if you would commence playing on a certain point, that the police would protect you?

Q. In your examination, you have stated that you went to the round-house as soon as you could, after the troops left?

Q. How long was it after the troops left until you got playing upon the fire at the round-house?

Q. Do you know, of your own personal knowledge, that the fire department did call upon the mayor for protection?

Q. Do you think, with the fire department, you could have cut the fire and stopped it during Sunday, if you had had protection?

A. I don't know whether we could have stopped it, it was on fire in too many different places; but I think we could have picked out twenty-five men and saved Union depot from burning.

Q. Was there no effort made when they set the sheds on fire to tear the sheds down and stop the fire?

A. Not that I saw—not by the police, that I saw. We did all we could. We kept following up the fire.

Q. Was there no effort made during the day, Sunday, to stop the progress of those men in setting fire to the cars and the depot?

A. We were fired at and told to go slow, you sons of bitches, all the way, but nobody struck us. I don't know whether they fired at us or not, but our foreman, I believe, was struck in the back.

A. We were off with the engine about a square from the fire, and commenced work first at Twenty-sixth street. I don't know where they had the hose placed. They told us not to throw on the railroad property, or they would cut our hose, and they tried to prevent me putting on my suction hose. We had to talk to them, and tell them we were not going to play on the railroad property before they would allow us to make any attachment at all.

A. They spoke to us, and a drunken fellow told us, if we played on the railroad property, that they would blow our heads off.

A. The police was a disorganized body—no two of them were together, I don't believe. I never saw over two together the whole day.

A. Daniel Motts and a man named Coulston came to us before the round-house caught on fire, about one o'clock that night, and asked us what we were standing there for, and not throwing any water. I said that the mob wouldn't allow us, and they said, I believe, they would protect us. I said, I am not the proper person, as the chief is here, and as we have orders to stand here and wait further orders. But the way they spoke to me, I thought it was in a joking way, because the only protection they could offer wouldn't have amounted to anything. I told them I was not the proper person, that the chief was there.

Q. Did they ask you to play upon any particular point of the fire, and say they would protect you?

A. No; they didn't. The cars were burning above the round-house at the time, but the round-house was not burning at the time.

A. Yes; that is what chased them out. I understood afterwards that they came out of the carpenter shop.

A. They ran pell mell, and fell over each other. The troops could have marched down Liberty street and drove them. The mob were cowards when daylight shown on them. They had plenty of guns, but not much ammunition for them. They were drunk, and that was what gave courage to the most of them.

A. They staggered off, and went to sleep or something. They had plenty of liquor.

A. Not over ten or twelve men. Some of them were boys fourteen or fifteen years of age. The most conspicuous man was a man with one arm.

A. When the fire broke out down below amongst the cars we were ordered further down. We went then to Twelfth and Liberty streets, that is from Twenty-first to Twelfth.

Q. Was any effort made by either the police or the militia or any person to stop this gang who were firing the cars?

A. None at all. There were plenty of people outside in sympathy with those who were setting fire, and who were handing drinks up to them, and some women were carrying coffee, and handing it to them?

Q. What classes of men were about that day who appeared to be in sympathy with them?

A. It generally was the Irish. Most every person that spoke to us about not playing on the fire was Irish, that is, had the brogue on the tongue.

Q. Were they railroad men, or did they belong to any particular class in the city. Mill men, or any particular class of people?

Q. You say they were handing coffee up to those people. It must have been made in the vicinity of the fire?

Q. After the soldiers marched out the round-house, if they had torn up the track, would it have prevented any further firing west?

A. Yes; I think the soldiers could have cleared the whole track after daylight on Sunday, cleared the whole track.

A. I don't know about the mayor's posse. They didn't appear to be so much afraid of the posse as of the guns.

Q. I understand you to say that no attempt was made by either the civil authorities or the military authorities to stop the fire on Sunday, or to clear the track?

Q. Of course, you cannot tell what would have been the result, if an attempt had been made—it is a mere matter of opinion as to what would have been the result?

Q. You spoke of the police force not being organized. What was the organization of the fire department?

A. The organization of the fire department was perfect. All the men were at their posts all the time, ready to do what they were ordered to do.

A. All the men that were on the force. The force had been reduced, but some of the men that had been put off were helping.

Q. You say those members of the department that had been put off didn't refuse to assist you?

A. Through the whole department I cannot say, but of our company I saw a couple of them. Of course, they had their favorite companies. And then there were plenty of volunteers of the old members of the volunteer department.

Q. State whether the fire commissioners are subject to the control of any higher body?

Q. What appeared to be the disposition of the crowd surrounding that fire—did they appear to be in sympathy with the rioters?

A. I would have them all around the engine. It was a regular hum, just like bees—everybody seemed to be talking.

A. I believe there was, after they fired on the mob. I believe some classes of men had a feeling against the soldiers, but I believe the better class of citizens had not.

Q. You say the soldiers could have cleared the tracks and dispersed the mob, when they came out of the round-house?

A. They could—if they had opened with the Gatling guns, there would not have been a soul in sight for fifteen squares.

Q. Do you know whether the officers of the soldiery in the round-house had any communication with anybody outside, during the night?

Q. None of them were passing back and forth, between the round-house and outside?

Q. The soldiers had no means of knowing that the crowd had become dispersed, or weakened, or drunken?

A. I don't think they had. I think the soldiers thought the whole community was against them. If they had known that they could have come out, and drove the mob down, I think they would have done it.

Q. Officer Coulston has testified, that the round-house was not on fire where the troops came out—that he went through the building. Could he have gone through those buildings soon after the troops evacuated them?

A. He couldn't. He might have gone into the carpenter shop, or the paint shop, but the flames were coming out of all the windows of the round-house. Nobody could have lived there.

A. He might, in one part by the carpenter shop, but I don't think he could have lived in any part of it, on account of the heat.

A. Probably between twelve and one o'clock on Sunday morning. We could not go into service. We waited there on the street by the Independence engine-house. We stayed at the fire until after the troops came out of the round-house.

A. I cannot say that I did; but I did hear that at one place where we were working the mayor was around, but I did not see him.

Q. Was any attempt made during the entire day of Sunday to stop the men who were engaged in the burning?

A. I had been a detective in the employ of the city of Pittsburgh previous to July 12.

A. I held no position; but I lived within three squares of the scene, and consequently had considerable interest in the riot. I was away from the city; but I came back on Friday evening. I heard that there was a strike among the railroad men, and, as I knew a great many of them, I was very much interested in their behalf. I went up to the upper round-house on Saturday morning, and there I saw a great many railroad men, and a good many outsiders, that I knew were attracted there for, probably, the same reason I was. They were very orderly, and I saw no trouble there. It did not look as though there was going to be any trouble. I came down to the city and saw the troops at Union depot towards noon, and went up to my home, and saw the troops up on the hill. I paid no more attention to it until towards evening, when I heard the troops had fired upon the crowd. Then I went up there. I was trying to find my two boys. The crowd was then gathering to the number of thousands, and the people were very much excited, and expressed themselves that the troops ought to be cleaned out, and all such language as that. I went away from there, and towards dark I went out towards Twenty-fifth street, and saw the troops had been moved from the Twenty-eighth street position to the round-house, or square-house. The carpenter shop is on one side of Twenty-sixth street, and the round-house and office of the assistant superintendent is on the left hand side opposite. The round-house is a little back of the office, and the outer circle of the round-house comes on the line of Liberty street, and there is a railroad track in front of it belonging to the Valley Railroad Company. The crowd was in front of there; the soldiers were in the round-house and in the carpenter shop. The crowd was there, and probably thirty men were jeering at the soldiers. I did not know any of them; but I went in among the men and I said, "boys, if those men come out you will have to go away, as you do not have any business here." I said, "these men are strangers, and you ought to treat them differently." They said, "we will have them out if we have got to roast them out." I felt some interest in the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, and in the interest of good behavior I come down the street, and tried to find some railroad officers to communicate my belief that there would be a fire and trouble. I tried to find some of the railroad officers, but could not do it. It was then after dark—after night. I went towards my home, and I met the crowd on Liberty street going to Union depot. I went up to one man I knew, who was tried in court last week, and I said "the railroad company has conceded to the demands of their employés." I had understood something of that sort. He said "it was too damned thin," and went into the depot, and a short time after there was an alarm of fire. At the corner of Twenty-fifth and Penn avenue the Independence apparatus was stopped by men pointing pistols, and saying if they proceeded any further they would kill their horses. I spoke to the parties that did that loud talking, and they said it did not make any difference—that they had no right to go up and throw water on the railroad property. I said: "These men are responding to a call, and they must obey, and you should not interfere with them." I then went away to see the extent of the fire. I went to Twenty-eighth street, and between there and Twenty-ninth, on Liberty, I saw the burning cars running down the grade towards the Twenty-eighth street crossing. But a switch was turned wrong or something, and the cars ran off the track. They set fire to what is known as the sand-house, and that is the first building that caught fire, and from that the fire communicated to the upper round-house, I think. The fire burned very slow. It appeared to me to be started by people that wanted to plunder, which they did, for they carried out great quantities of goods that day and the next day. The fire burned very slow—I never saw a fire burn so slow in my life. I did not see whether the fire department went into service that night or not. Next morning I saw the troops as they came up Liberty street on to Twenty-fifth, and marched out Penn avenue. I did not see much of any mob at that time. Then the fire department went into service. I saw no person particularly setting things on fire, but I saw two men coming from under a car off the track, in front of the round-house, just at Twenty-sixth street. The car was loaded with liquor, and just shortly after they came out and went away the car caught fire, and then the round-house and the shop and the offices and all caught fire.

A. A portion of it—the square shop that they came out of was set on fire afterwards. The building was L shaped, and there was a fire in the rear of it, and there might have been a fire—but I won't be positive—but there might have been a fire in the L that ran towards the road, but none in the L on Liberty street when they came out; and they had made some efforts to protect themselves against fire, because I discovered some leather hose, that the railroad company had in the premises, after the troops came out. The fire then kept burning down gradually on Liberty street down the railroad, and the people kept carrying off the goods all day Sunday. Down at the Union depot—previous to that catching fire—I was in there, and saw that the parties had moved as many of the goods as they could, and I saw no person trying to stop them. They set the depot master's office on fire, and then a burning car was run down into the depot, and that fired it. I saw the troops marching down Twenty-fifth street towards Penn, and saw them march up Penn.

Q. Can you tell us what portion of the round-house, or the buildings attached to it, were on fire when they left?

A. I do not know, but there might have been a fire in the rear of the round-house—the portion of it that is next to the main line might have been afire—and as I said before, this L of the carpenter shop might have been afire previous to the vacation, but I do not know it; but, from my recollection of it, the fire burned so slow that there must have been a fire in there before they got out, because when it caught from the burning car on Liberty street, the whole building appeared to be enveloped at once.

A. I saw one man fire, I think, twice. He attempted to run into my yard, and I kicked him out, and I said "if you want to fire on those men go out and do it, but you cannot do it here." He ran out and shot at them with a pistol. Somebody returned the fire, and he quit following them any further.

A. No; I never saw him before. I know a great many men here; but I knew very few men that took part in the riot.

A. The men I saw jeering the soldiers penned in there, I did not know any of them, nor I do not think they knew me, because I think if they had known I was an officer, or had been one, I think they would have made it lively for me, because I have the idea that they would have thought I was there in the line of my business. I did not know any of them. But this man, Richardson, that was tried last week, I saw him and spoke to him about half past nine o'clock on Saturday night, and told him that the railroad company had conceded to the wishes of the men, and he said that was too damned thin, and went on.

Q. In your experience as a detective in this city, you have gained an extensive knowledge of the people?

Q. And from the general appearance of that mob you think they were strangers, and did not belong in the city.

A. Yes; that is, the ringleaders. I was at one time on the Pennsylvania railroad, a number of years ago, and in consequence of that, I know a great many railroad men, employés of the road, and I saw none of them engaged in this riot. When I first went up there, in the morning, I saw a great many I knew, railroad men, but they were all quiet and orderly.

Q. Did you have any conversation with them as to the reasons or causes that led to the strike?

A. Yes; their grievances were, as far as they told me, that they had been required to put on double-headers, and the reduction in the number of their men that they would lose so many men, as they called it, in a crew.

A. Not that I heard. I did not hear a man say a word that would tend to show he was going to use any violence. I remarked to four or five of them standing together: "If the mayor sends his police here and orders you fellows away from here, you have no business here on this property, and you must go."

Q. Did you hear any of those railroad men speak of a preconcerted arrangement for a general strike through the country?

A. We answered box No. 62, and then the chief gave us orders to stop at Twenty-third and Penn, and not make any attachment until we got further orders.

A. A great many men were scattered along the street as we were going to the box. The fire was down as far as Twenty-third street by that time. By daylight it got warm at Twenty-third and Liberty, and the chief got permission from the mob to lay a line of hose so that a foundry there might not take fire. We afterwards went to Twenty-sixth street, but could not get across there as the soldiers were firing across Twenty-sixth street.

A. It was impossible for anybody to go there. The upper building was completely burned when we went into service. It is a square building.

A. Yes. The roof had fallen in when we laid the line of hose. That was in ten minutes after the soldiers had left the round-house.

A. From the Rush House down to Seventh avenue—ten thousand men—you could hardly get through.

A. No; the mob had a cannon planted at Twenty-seventh street, pointed right at the engine, and they said if you play on the railroad property we will raise you. We did not want to be raised.

Q. Was any effort made by the mob to set fire to private property, that you saw?

A. I do not know, but I heard several citizens express themselves that they were getting tired of this work. We were then on Bedford avenue. They said they were going too far with it.

A. I did not see any of the mob at the time we went out. I saw a great many people on the street. We had to go very slow. They were using all kinds of threats.

A. Once, at the corner of Twentieth and Liberty streets, standing against a gas post.

A. About half past five o'clock in the evening, on the day that the soldiers fired in the crowd, my office boy came to my office and reported to me in great excitement, that the soldiers had fired on and killed a number of the citizens. I then went to the scene of the trouble, and remained there until about eight o'clock in the evening.

A. At six o'clock. The troops had just gone into the round-house as I got there. I returned to my office after eight o'clock, and when the cars were fired at eleven o'clock, I saw the light and heard the alarm, and immediately went to the scene, and remained there until four o'clock in the morning. I then returned home, and remained at home until one o'clock, and then came to Pittsburgh again and remained until nine o'clock.

A. One or two wounded men being carried from the ground. I observed a disorganized mass of people standing in groups, numbering perhaps six or eight hundred, discussing the fire and passing their comments on it.

A. There were some few railroad employés, but the most of them I recognized as mill hands from the different rolling-mills. I knew many of them personally.

A. Discussing the question involved in the railroad strikes, and some of them were using threats. One man remarked, if the firing went on, that there wouldn't be a dollar's worth of railroad property left in the county of Allegheny at nine o'clock the next morning. Quite a number of persons I recognized as persons I knew to be workingmen from other sections. I know a great many of the Pittsburgh workingmen.

A. I judged them to be miners and mill hands, attracted here from outlying counties—attracted by news of the riot; in fact, in conversation with some, they informed me they had come from different places.

A. At that time there was no disturbance. It was very peaceful, except the grumbling. But at eleven o'clock, I was on the railroad track, and I noticed three men breaking into and taking the contents of a car.

A. No; they appeared to be workingmen, and some of them appeared to be familiar with handling cars from the manner in which they proceeded to open the cars. I went down and remonstrated with them, and they treated me very civilly—didn't seem to take as an insult my interference. I remarked that the railroad company would not be the sufferer. They paid no particular attention, and I told them, you men will certainly be punished for this. I told them I was a magistrate, and had come in my official capacity to try and quell the disturbance; but they paid no attention. There was no riot at that time. They went peaceably about it.

A. Yes; they threw them out promiscuously. The greater number of goods were carried away by girls about sixteen years of age and by boys up to twenty years of age. The goods were carried away by residents of the immediate neighborhood. I then went up to where they were setting fire to the oil cars, and there were probably not more than eight or ten men engaged in that.

A. I do not know. They seemed to be workingmen from their garb. I knew them to be workingmen, and several of them I knew were familiar with operating railroads, from the fact that they knew how to open the switches, and run the cars into position, and they handled the cars with the experience of practical mechanics.

A. Certainly; some of them. At this time probably twenty cars were on fire, and there were not over one hundred and fifty persons altogether on the railroad tracks.

A. Twelve o'clock on Saturday night. Just then a man came from the crowd of rioters—there was a crowd collected in front of the round-house for the purpose of fighting the militia—and he jumped on to a flat car and drew a sword—he had a belt around him, but had no uniform—and he immediately ordered them to stop burning the cars and pillaging the trains, saying that they had come not to burn and pillage, but to fight the military.

A. He was evidently a leader, but I did not know him. He was from the party that came from Birmingham. Immediately when he jumped on that car, somebody hallooed "police," and in five minutes there was not a man left on the railroad track. The cry of "police" cleared the whole thing out, and any two police officers could have preserved the peace.

Q. You think that a small force of police there could have straightened things up?

A. They were mostly young—girls and boys. At one o'clock in the morning I passed the police station on Penn street, in the immediate vicinity, and the police officers were arresting every person passing with goods and there was no resistance. They had perfect control. A mob amounting to not more than five hundred persons was standing near, and they had a cannon commanding the round-house, but the soldiers had covered it with their arms, and had killed one or two of the rioters. The mob engaged in fighting the soldiers were not engaged in the burning and pillaging. I went among them. One of them called me by name. I knew his face. He said, "Alderman, don't go down that way; they will shoot you." But I said, "No," and passed on through them. I said to him, "You had better go home," when he said that they had come for the purpose of fighting the militia, and were going to fight them.

Q. Now, this mob gathered around in the vicinity of the round-house—what was that mob composed of?

A. I recognized that mob as composed nearly all of people who were working men from the south side of the river.

A. Yes; some few of them were citizens that I knew. And I would state that some few were armed, but showed no disposition to violence except that they had an antipathy to the soldiers that had fired on their relatives. I mention this fact to show that there should be a distinction between the rioters proper and the plunderers. They didn't seem to be acting in concert. A posse of police of twenty men could have protected all the property that night.

Q. Did you hear any body state that the rioters or the mob had prevented the fire department from throwing water on the railroad property?

A. I did not. But I have no doubt they would have prevented it, from the disposition of the mob. I didn't see any person setting fire to the Union depot. I took my stand at the elevator. I met one of the clerks belonging to the company, and he told me that they had refused to let them take their books out. I said, come back with me, and I will take them out. So I went back and stationed myself at the elevator, to save it, if I could, by my presence there, and by calling a posse comitatus. But I could not get any person to serve. The sheds below Union depot were then taking fire, and two or three men came, and wanted to go into the elevator. I told them not to go in. At this time not less than twenty thousand people were there—men, women, and children—but there was no rioting, and there were not more than eight or ten or a score of men engaged in spreading the fire at that time. They seemed to be peaceable.

A. I tried to raise it. I called on a gentleman from Allegheny, named Gray. I summoned him to my assistance, but he refused to act, but said if I could get ten more he would do so. I afterwards saw some other parties, but while they deprecated the burning, they said it was worth their lives to interfere. I then went with Mr. Gray down to where the men were running the burning cars, and tried to reason with them. At that time probably twenty men were engaged in that, besides the persons engaged in carrying the things off. And by that time they had gotten into liquor, and were pretty well intoxicated. On Sunday afternoon I also tried to raise a posse comitatus. I called on some citizens that I knew, but they were afraid to do anything, alleging that the military and police should do it.

A. No; I left, and supposed the elevator was safe, and went down to Seventh avenue, where the depot of the Pan Handle road was just being set on fire. I remained there some time, and then went to Allegheny to get my supper, and came back. While crossing the bridge, I noticed the fire coming from the elevator. I remained in the vicinity of the fire until between nine and ten o'clock that night, and at that time there was no further spreading of the destruction. The citizens, in the meantime, had organized a police, and there had, apparently, been a number of arrests made.

Q. As soon as the police began making arrests, the citizens took the matter into their own hands, and the destruction ceased?

A. Yes; and that is what convinced me that a posse of twenty policemen could have prevented the destruction. But at any time during Saturday night, if a police officer had gone into the crowd to arrest a man, the mob would have interfered with him—I am satisfied of that.

A. As far as I could, and they respected my authority when I asserted it resolutely. Then they gave way. I went to Allegheny to try to summon a posse comitatus, but I found it collected, and I then repaired to the mayor's office, in Allegheny, and took part with them for the protection of our city. In our city, I may say, that no destruction occurred. The railroad men took possession of the railroad property there. I think they took possession first on Thursday evening. Nothing was destroyed. The railroad men—those I conversed with—said that they had determined to protect the railroad property against any mob.

Q. What did they say was their object in taking possession of the railroad property?

A. Well—my office seems to be a general receptacle for persons of diverse opinions. Some of these railroad men came to me with their complaints. I was told their grievances, and that their purpose was merely the restoration of the ten per cent. reduction.

A. The Pittsburgh, Port Wayne and Chicago road. They admitted their actions were contrary to law, and that they might be amenable, but still they asserted their assumed right to stop the running of trains until their demands were complied with.

A. An assumed right. They supposed they had such a right. Some of them supposed, ignorantly, that they had such a right—a great many of them honestly believed that.

Q. Did they claim that they had any right to set themselves up against the authorities?

A. No; at no time; as they construed the laws of the Commonwealth, they did not want to set themselves up against them.

A. I know that the people of the city of Pittsburgh almost universally condemned the reduction of the salaries of the railroad men at that time. The strikers knew that they had the sympathies of the people of Allegheny county—of all classes—in their efforts to have a living rate of wages restored to them, and thousands of people not engaged in the strike, on that Saturday afternoon, in July last, were gathered in the vicinity of the Pennsylvania railroad workshops, not for the purpose of violating any law, but either from motives of sympathy with the strikers or prompted by curiosity to witness the military. It may be inferred, that at least one half of those people were women and children, and these, without warning, were fired into and many of them killed or wounded. Of course, this caused universal indignation and condemnation, and was the occasion of all the subsequent troubles and destruction. A pacific course pursued towards these men would have avoided the catastrophe that followed. The first great blunder in dealing with the strikers in Pittsburgh, was in the attempt to operate the road by the use of a military force, instead of using the troops to preserve order and to keep the peace.

Q. You say that the sympathies of the people of Pittsburgh were with the strikers or with the railroad employés and against the reduction of their wages. Do you mean as long as no overt act was committed? Or what did they regard as an overt act?

A. I think that certain classes of people did not regard the stopping of the trains an overt act, but they would have regarded the forcible taking of men from the trains—men who were willing to work—or the preventing them from working, as an overt act.

Q. Will you tell us what you did in your own city—tell us how you managed the trouble there?

A. The authorities of Allegheny managed the strikers differently—in a different way from that pursued in Pittsburgh. Several days prior to the burning in Pittsburgh, the strikers took possession of the railroad tracks, and the workshops of the Pennsylvania company operating the Pittsburgh, Port Wayne and Chicago railroad. They threw up breast-works,and held armed possession of the railroad property, and even took possession of, and regulated the running of passenger trains and the United States mail trains. At all interviews, they insisted that it was not their intention to destroy property, but to protect the railroad property, and that they wouldn't commit any overt act in violation of law, as they understood it. Many of them believed they were not violating any law, and assumed that they had a right to accomplish the object they had in view, by the method they then were pursuing. The authorities and the citizens of Allegheny City knew that they were dealing with a powerful, intelligent, and well organized body of men, who were determined and resolute in their purposes. To have attempted to force those men from their position, would have precipitated the same troubles that culminated in Pittsburgh a few days subsequently. So the citizens appealed to the better judgment of those strikers, they reasoned with them, and instead of irritating them, or attempting to force them, they permitted them to have their own way, believing that the railroad officials and their employés, would, in a few days, adjust all differences. This policy, under the circumstances, proved to be a wise one, as when danger came, and when the mob were burning and destroying in Pittsburgh, the strikers in Allegheny actually removed all the rolling stock out of the way of danger, and volunteered to assist the organized citizens in protecting the depots and workshops, and all other railroad property in the city of Allegheny. Had the same policy been pursued in Pittsburgh, there would have been no destruction of property.

Q. You were in the army. What position in the army did you hold during the late war?

A. In 1861—in May, 1861—1 enlisted as a soldier, and was elected lieutenant of my company, and went out as a member of the Second Virginia regiment, as lieutenant, and afterwards became captain of my company.

A. Yes. We went to Wheeling to protect the people, and our services were accepted by the people of West Virginia. On the 19th of February, 1862, I was appointed commissary assistant by the Secretary of War, and that position I held until about the 1st day of September, 1862, when I was assigned to duty as chief commissary of the Twelfth army corps. About the 15th of March, 1863, I was assigned to duty as chief commissary of the Fifth army corps, with the rank of lieutenant colonel, on General Meade's staff.

A. Until I was mustered out of the service, or until the corps was disbanded, in September, 1865. I remained in service until March, 1866.

A. For the last eight years I have been an alderman of the city of Allegheny. The year before that, 1 was a member of the Legislature.

Q. From the time you left the army until you were elected a member of the Legislature what business were you engaged in?

A. When I went into the army I was chief clerk in the county commissioners' office of Allegheny county. Prior to that I was a clerk in a store.

Q. Something has been said about picketing the railroad track where the riot occurred. Now, taking into consideration the number of cars around there, how many troops would it have taken to reasonably picket the track and the ground there in possession of the mob?

A. The ground in possession of the mob, from the round-house out to Lawrenceville, I think could have been sufficiently picketed by one hundred men on both sides. At no time were more than one hundred persons on the ground from twelve o'clock that night until four o'clock in the morning, from the round-house out to Two Mile run. I consider that the movement of the military into the round-house, at the time, was a good one, but they should have picketed the railroad, and all the approaches to the round-house. To have retired on the bluff, above the railroad tracks, would have been a military blunder, for if they were not strong enough to protect themselves where the cars and buildings afforded them shelter, they certainly could not have held a position on the hill face, where they could have been attacked from the open fields above them, and been within easy range of masked or rifle shots from the houses fronting on Liberty street. No officer of any military experience would have selected that hill face to bivouac his troops, under the circumstances then existing, but the retreat of two regiments of well armed and equipped soldiers, commanded by officers of undoubted courage, and large military experience in the face of a disorganized mob, was certainly a inexplicable blunder.

Q. You did not see the crowd before it was fired into and dispersed by the military?

Q. Now in your judgment, as a military man, do you think that there was any necessity for calling on the military to quell this riot?

A. I do not. I honestly believe that if the authorities of the county or Allegheny, or the city of Pittsburgh, had summoned a sufficient posse comitatus, they could have preserved the peace. They might not have been able to run the railroad cars, but the peace could have been preserved without calling the military.

Q. From your observations during this disturbance, what opinion have you of the conduct of the officers and those in charge of the military?

A. I was not brought in contact with them, except with Colonel Gray, of one of our regiments, after the firing. I went to where he had bivouacked on the railroad track, and he had one hundred and twenty men with him at the time. He said he was there for the purpose of obeying orders, and that his men would stay by him. He had no orders at that time. I asked him particularly whether he had any orders, and he said he had none. I asked him whether he thought he could preserve the peace, and he said he could. I think he said that the firing on the people was a mistake, and was done without orders, but if I had been there I would have ordered the mob to disperse, and then fired on them with blank cartridges.

Q. From your knowledge of these men as soldiers during the war, do you think they were competent or incompetent men?

A. I know General Pearson well. I knew him in the army, and I know what his military record was in the army, and there is no young officer in the United States service who has a prouder record as a brave, a careful, and discreet soldier. He served in our own corps, and I had daily opportunity of knowing what his military services and military abilities were, and his record in the army was certainty vary creditable to him. I also knew General Brinton in our corps, and I know that his record is equally good.

A. Yes; and had those two officers had the management of this affair, without being amenable to superiors, much of the destruction would have been avoided.

A. Yes; they had, to my certain knowledge, years of experience in the army—active experience as soldiers.

The committee met, pursuant to adjournment, at ten o'clock, A.M. Mr. Lindsey in the chair. All the members present except Messrs. Reyburn and Torbert.

Q. State whether you were in Pittsburgh when the disturbances of last July first broke out?

A. I was not there at the breaking out of it. I arrived here the same day, about a quarter past one, I suppose—Liberty street.

A. Saturday night the news was very exciting out home, and Sunday morning at eleven o'clock I took the express and arrive I here at the city—Federal street—about twelve o'clock I should judge it was. Came over to Fifth street and got my dinner. Went to the market-house and saw a crowd of people there. Went down to see what was going on, and found it was a peace convention.

A. It was some place near the old City Hall—I should judge it was. It was in the street. I went from there up Liberty street until I met the fire. I couldn't state how far it was from the Union depot—how many squares it was; but I stopped at the first crossing below the last car that was on fire. I staid there until a car load of spirits exploded, and the flames ran down from there about a hundred feet.

A. It was on Liberty street—I should judge that was the street that the cars go out of. I am not well enough acquainted to state positively—it was on the Pennsylvania railroad.

A. That I am not well enough informed to know, but I should judge it was four squares above the Union depot, right up the track.

A. While standing there looking at the flames going on, I made a remark to some person: "Ain't they going to try to stop it?" and he said, "no, we don't care anything whether it is stopped or not." I hadn't staid there long until I heard the gong of a hose carriage. The crowd didn't seem disposed to give way or do anything—just standing in the road. I asked the crowd if they would stand back and let the hose carriage come in. I was a perfect stranger to every person around. There was a movement made in the crowd, and the hose carriage came up. Says I, "do you want any assistance?" says he, "yes." Says I, "give me the end of the hose and I will make the attachment." He was taking it off the reel and one man jumped from the reel and went to the plug, and him and I made the attachment. The reel started on—there was barrels being rolled down this street, and everything was in confusion, and no person seemed to make any effort to check anything. I seen that the hose were in danger of being blocked, and I told some parties who were rolling some barrels down, "stop that! put that barrel in here." They stopped. I took the barrel out of their hands, and rolled it into the gutter. I staid there for ten minutes afterwards, when one of my companions came along, and says he, "let us get out of here." We walked on down do the Union depot, passed the Union depot and went up to, I should judge it would be Washington street, from the description given—not being well acquainted with the streets—and stepped into a segar store, got some segars, and told the proprietor of the store, says I, "I think you had better move." And says he, "no, I don't think there is any danger." Says I, "in a couple of hours you will be burned out—they ain't making any effort up there to stop it." I went out, passed around on to the side of the hill above the Union depot, where I had a view of the whole transaction that was going on; just seen the burners going along and doing just as they pleased, having everything in their own hands. I was on the side of the hill when the office beyond the shed attached to the Union depot building was set on fire.

A. I seen a man go into the building, and in a few minutes I seen the flames coming out.

A. No, sir; I was too far away. The smoke coming up over the hill, I moved around and came back, then down to the Union depot by the same route I had went up, and there stopped by the elevator. As I came by the Union depot, I saw, I suppose, twenty armed men leaving it, some with parts of uniform on, some with caps, and some with pants, and others with citizens overcoats. They were going through the gangway to the hill, passing out of the side entrance to the gangway that runs across the Pan-Handle road on to the hill. I stood down by the elevator, and saw the parties making their escape from the upper stories of the Union depot, and then I got in conversation with a gentleman about it. Says I, "I suppose they will be satisfied when that is burned." "No;" says he, "we won't be satisfied until this elevator is down." Says I, "do you intend to burn this?" Says he, "everything in these monopolies has got to burn"—he made use of that expression. Says he, "I am a citizen here, and I own property, and I expect to help pay for it." Says I, "this is not railroad property." Says he, "it don't make a damned bit of difference, it has got to come down; it is a monopoly, and we are tired of it."

A. I am personally acquainted with him, but I would rather not give his name publicly.

A. I would give it to you privately. He is a friend of mine from boyhood up. I can give you his name, and you can have him before you. I would like to be excused from giving his name publicly.

A. I suppose he would be between thirty-five and forty years. About near my age. We were boys together when we were in Brighton, and he came to the city.

A. No; he didn't seem to take any part. He seemed to know and understand what was going to be done, though.

A. No, sir. He stood with me in the crowd back. He seemed to know certain parties that were in it, although he mentioned no names.

A. Yes; he made that remark—said he, "Our shop boys came home this morning tired out with the night's work."

A. I can only give an estimate of the reports—from one thousand five hundred to two thousand. They are very large works. I have been through them.

Q. When he said, "our boys came home tired out from last night's work," what work did he allude to?

A. The conversation was on this burning altogether—on the destruction of the property. My inference was that it was the work we had witnessed.

Q. Did you see any attempt while you were there to destroy or set fire to individual property?

A. I saw two or three policemen about two squares below, but none in the immediate neighborhood of the burning.

Q. When you attempted to make the connection, were you interfered with in any way?

Q. When you undertook to stop the rolling down of barrels, what seemed to be the feeling in the crowd?

Q. Did you make any effort to stop those that were setting fire to property and burning?

A. No, sir; I did not; I held back from them on account of not being a citizen of the town.

A. They seemed to be composed of the better class of citizens of the two cities, you could see—quiet, orderly.

A. No, sir; I can't say that I did. I am not well enough acquainted with the business men of the city to know whether there was any in the crowd or not.

A. I haven't seen the mayor to know him since 1860; I probably would not know him on the street.

Q. Did you find any difficulty in getting into the city that day, from New Brighton, Beaver county?

A. No, sir; I found no difficulty at all. Trains came in on time. At the Allegheny depot the strikers boarded the train and run it to Federal street station, and said they would not run it over to Pittsburgh.

A. Yes; they went out whenever Boss Amnion, as he was called, said that train should go.

A. No interference, so far as I know, in regard to passenger trains. I had no trouble at all in getting home.

A. I did not; I am not personally acquainted with him: probably might have seen him, and not known him.

A. I can say that the mayor was not there, as I heard him inquired for half a dozen times. The rest were strangers to me.

A. Not to my knowledge—there was not. I made inquiry for the chief of police—if the chief of police was in, and I was told he was not.

A. They seemed to be employés around there, or some persons that seem to be well acquainted with the office; they were sitting there.

A. I went into the chief of police's office—the left hand entrance going into the city hall—and seen one gentlemen that I was slightly acquainted with, Mr. Carrigan, and spoke to him. He got up and went out. There were two or three gentlemen—strangers—I got into conversation with them about it, and one of them, a large, tall man, with heavy black whiskers, says he, "We won't be satisfied here until this track is torn up to the point." He brought his fist down; says he, "We have been imposed on long enough."

A. I do not know, but judged from his conversation that he belonged to the city of Pittsburgh, from the manner in which he used that expression.

A. People were commenting about it in general terms. I came down Sunday night, after the fire had got cooled down somewhat. I went to the Saint James hotel, opposite the Union depot, to take a look. I went out of curiosity, and got in over the hot coals, so as to have it said that I ate a meal in the Saint James while it was hot. I walked all around the burned district; that is, the elevator, Union depot, and Pan Handle yard, watched the firemen, went down to where the firemen were playing on the ruins, and came down then through what is known as the metal yard, and there I heard a conversation amongst the men. I couldn't tell you the exact number, but I should think there was a hundred and fifty congregated around there, some of them dead drunk, and some half drunk, and some of them drunk enough to go any place. I heard them say: "We must go to this place. There is no police, and they won't interfere with us any way."

A. I don't know what place they referred to. I thought it was a rather dangerous place for me, being without any arms, any more than natural fists, and I didn't stay any longer.

Q. Did you hear any conversation, while at the city hall, from the mayor's clerks in reference to the riot and burning?

A. No; I don't know as I did. There was a gentleman came in there, and inquired for the mayor. Says he: "There is a big lot of miners coming down here," and, says he, "we don't know what to do." He inquired where he was, and wanted something done to stop them. No person seemed to know what to do.

A. I didn't hear of the mayor coming in while I was there at all. He might have went to his office while I was in there.

Q. When you went into the tobacco store, and told this man he had better be moving, what reply did he make?

Q. This man that was in the city hall that said they would not be satisfied until the track was torn up down to the point—was he dressed in citizen's clothes?

A. Yes; I judged by his dress and conversation that he was a resident of the place.

A. Indeed, I could hardly state—I should judge a hundred or one hundred and fifty.

A. Yes; and some of them were railroad men down there, and were interested here.

Q. You spoke about some armed men you saw going up the hill—did you ascertain who they were?

A. No, sir; I did not. I was told they were some Philadelphia men that had been left in there.

A. Some had caps on, some pants—I would judge they belonged to the soldiers, on account of the weapons they had in their hands—they were breech-loaders.

A. When I spoke about them they were escaping from the Union depot. At that time the flames were coming in from the shed. They were going over the hill towards the reservoir.

Q. This man you had the conversation with down at the municipal hall, at the office of the chief of police, did he appear to be connected with the office there in any way?

A. Well, indeed I can't say. He was in this office, and I struck up a conversation with him. I don't know how we got to talking about it. I spoke to Mr. Carrigan, the only one I knew. He went out, and there was no other person I had conversation with but him, and he seemed to be at home.

A. No, sir; I can't do that. I met him on special duty at one time—he appeared to be connected with the detective force at one time here.

A. They were scattered through the crowd. I was separated from them pretty much all the time. Only just occasionally we would meet.

A. There was Major Henry, from Beaver, and Mr. Macomber, of Beaver Falls file works.

Q. Just go on and make a brief statement of what you saw in relation to the riots?

A. My first knowledge of the riots was on Saturday, the 21st of July, about an hour or so previous to the arrival of the troops from the east. I was induced to go to Twenty-eighth street, hearing that there was a large concourse of people assemble there, and they were there for the purpose of preventing any trains leaving the city—any freight trains, and having the dread of riots before my eyes—I had seen other riots in Philadelphia, in 1844—I apprehended that there might be some little difficulty, and as I have some influence with the Irish portion of the people of the city, I thought it my duty to go there, and try to induce them to leave the place, and not enter into any measures that would tend to criminate themselves or break the laws of the country. That was the reason I went there. When I arrived at the ground—I drove out in my buggy—when I arrived there, I found about fifteen hundred people. I presume, assembled—fifteen hundred to two thousand, and several companies of soldiers—the Fourteenth regiment, Greys, I believe, some of them, and the Nineteenth. I am not sure that there was any Greys there—I think it was the Fourteenth and the Nineteenth regiments. I saw Colonel Grey's command on the side of the hill, and I inquired of him who had charge of the troops here, as they were in rather a disorderly condition, I consider, in a military point of view. They were mingling freely with the crowd in groups here and there, and seemed to have no order or discipline amongst them. They told me General Brown had command; and I then went down amongst the crowd on the railroad track, where Twenty-eighth street intersects the road, and I met General Brown, and inquired of him if he was in command of the troops. He said he was. Said I, "you are not in military uniform—you have no uniform on." He was dressed as a citizen. I thought it was a very remarkable thing. He then asked me if I would make a speech to the crowd, so as to disperse them, or induce them to disperse, and leave the track free for the cars to go out—engines and so on. I told him that I did not think it was my place, but if it would be of any benefit I would certainly do so; and he said "yes," he thought it would be necessary, because there was troops coming from Philadelphia and Easton; that the railroad company had sent for troops to disperse any mob that would attempt to interfere with the running of trains; and, perhaps, it would be best, in order to prevent any disturbance, for me to address the crowd to that effect. I hesitated somewhat, and inquired then before I consented. Said I, "who is the leader of the strikers?" Said he "there he is," pointing to a tall man that was very busy in the crowd, making motions with his fingers to his companions—that is, trainmen, firemen, and engineers. Said I "call him here and see what he says about my addressing this crowd." This man was called, and he also thought it advisable for me to do so—they did not want any disturbance, and they would like the crowd to disperse—they could manage this business themselves without any outsiders; and at this solicitation of Brown, and this chief man amongst the strikers, I got up on the steps of a small oil house, that is fronting the round-house—standing there yet—and I addressed the crowd present, and what I said on that day to them was published in the afternoon paper—in the Leader—I have a copy of it here. I told them that it was necessary for them to disperse—if you would like to here the exact words I would read them for you.

A. No, sir; it is very short. It was so to the point at the time that I thought it best to preserve it, and this is copied from the Leader of the 21st, the afternoon of the-day of the occurrence, and this address was delivered about one hour before the arrival of the troops. The reporter says he addressed—that is. Doctor Donnelly—addressed the strikers as his fellow-countrymen. I did so because I have been in the habit of addressing Irishmen in public meetings, and it was more of a habit than anything else. Instead of saying "fellow-citizens," I said countrymen; not because they were all Irish, but because it is a habit I had in using that term, and exhorted them not to resort to violence. "No striker," he said, "had ever yet succeeded where violence was resorted to. Violence was invariably met with violence, and ended in the discomfiture of the strikers. It was opposed and contrary to the fundamental laws of the land. He entreated them to maintain law and order. To reflect before taking any rash step, and to remember that law-breakers must, in the natural course of things, suffer. He urged them to be prudent upon the arrival of the troops from the east. The troops from Philadelphia, said he, and the troops from Easton and elsewhere are not to you like the Duquesne Greys or the Fourteenth regiment or the Nineteenth regiment. They are not, I might say, your brothers. You cannot go to them and take their hands and say to them, 'how are you, Jim?' or 'how are you, Tom' or 'how is it with you, Patrick?' These men will come here strangers to you, and they will come here regarding you as we regarded the rebels during the rebellion, and there will be no friendly feeling between you and them. For this reason, I implore you, for God's sake, to stand back when they arrive. To stand off and allow your leaders, who hold the throttle of this movement, to deal with them. For this reason I implore those of you who have no business here to go home to your families. It is your duty to do so. It is your duty to them, to your country, and to the laws of your country. Leave the matter in the hands of your leaders, who know what is for the best, better than you do, and you will leave it in good hands. I have been assured of this. I have been informed by the men who are leading this strike that they will exercise the greatest caution and forbearance when the soldiers arrive, and I entreat you to stand back, and let them manage the thing in their own way." That was the import of it.

A. At Twenty-eighth street and the round-house. The crowd was between the round-house and myself—some fifteen hundred or two thousand, including; soldiers and all.

A. I was on the steps of a small building where oil is kept. The steps are high up, and I had a good location and a good view of the surroundings. They listened very patiently, and as there was a great number of women and children among them, I deemed it my duty to warn them.

A. It seemed to have a good effect upon them as far as the women and children, and a great number of men retired and went away; and there was a kindly feeling apparent amongst the people and amongst the soldiers that were there. There was no evidence of violence, nor none apprehended, except when the troops would arrive from the cast. The only fear that appeared to exist amongst the bystanders and those I conversed with, was a conflict between the eastern troops and the people.

Q. Were the troops—the soldiers of the Fourteenth and Nineteenth regiments—mixed up with the crowd at that time?

A. They had some arms on the ground. Some had them with them and some were stacked in different places along the side of the hill and at the bottom of the hill.

A. Yes; with the exception of General Brown, who was in citizen's dress, and he was the commander-in-chief. I inquired for General Pearson. I understood he was with the Philadelphia troops.

A. My address seemed to have considerable influence with the strikers and trainmen and others; and they had their meeting-place on Penn street, near Twenty-eighth. I think it was over a segar store; and I was requested to meet them that afternoon. I did so, and they delegated me to wait on the officials of the road to make terms, to put an end to any further disturbances. They requested me to see Mr. Thaw. I think he is an official of the road, one of the vice presidents, if I am not mistaken—William Thaw, I think his name is, and Mr. McCullough and Mr. Layng. I went to Mr. Thaw's house two or three times, but was unable to find him. I then went to Allegheny, and met Mr. Layng and Colonel McCullough, and told them what the strikers wanted, and endeavored to persuade them to meet the strikers or to make some promise that would put an end to further difficulty and trouble, or the shooting of people or destruction of property. They were both together, and I conversed with them, and I gave them the terms the strikers had authorized me to make. I took it from the strikers and wrote it down in pencil at the time, and it is here—the terms they wished me to propose to the officers of the road, to Mr. Thaw and Colonel Scott, if he was in town. After informing these gentlemen what the strikers demanded, they told me they could do nothing in the matter whatever—it was above their power to do anything.

A. This is what they demanded: "Authorized by strikers to visit Colonel McCullough and Mr. Layng to effect a compromise on the basis of taking off double-headers; same wages as prior to June 1, 1877; each man to receive his position prior to strike."

A. They said receive at that time—"classification of engines done away with; each engineer to receive first-class wages, same as prior to June 1, 1877; each engine, road or shifting, to have own fireman"—that was the conditions on which they wished to make a compromise with the officials of the road, and by all means to endeavor to have them meet them, so as to make some kind of a compromise. Their great object seemed to be to have a conference with the officials.

A. It was after the collision. I had not heard of the collision at that time. I had been hunting Mr. Thaw in the afternoon, and then had gone to Allegheny, and I had to procure the aid of a gentleman to go with me to learn where Mr. McCullough and Mr. Layng lived.

A. I presented it—it must have been, perhaps, four o'clock or five—it was in the afternoon.

A. They told me they could do nothing at all in the matter, nor did they seemed disposed to do anything. They conversed about the matter as indifferently as if it was a thing on the other side of the Atlantic—took no interest in it, but referred me to President Scott.

A. I did, sir; went there several times. I reported the interview, and they said they would try to meet the officers—they would meet the officers at East Liberty, and that they had sent out word to some of the officers—I think Mr. Pitcairn and some other officers—to meet them at East Liberty, and they had gone out there. This was late in the evening. They had gone out to East Liberty, but they could get no satisfaction out of the officers there; and they had also telegraphed to Mr. Scott, president of the road, and had received no answer, and that they had used every means in their power to make some compromise with the officers of the road, but had failed.

A. No, sir; I was not present at any firing. I was pretty late that evening out at Twenty-eighth street, and there was an immense concourse of people all along Liberty street for several squares, but, as I had my horse with me I did not go amongst them at all on the tracks. I merely reported my interview between myself and Colonel McCullough and Mr. Layng, and I then went home.

Q. Your effort was particularly confined to adjusting the compromise and difficulty between the strikers and the railroad?

A. That Saturday I had not. On Saturday I had not, but on the next morning, Sunday morning, I was very active, indeed, to endeavor to raise and organize a vigilance committee for the purpose of suppressing the riot and saving the property of the railroad company, and other property; dreading that the city would be set on fire and plundered by mobs.

Q. These railroad officials you called to see in Allegheny—General McCullough and Thaw and Layng—what railroad company are they connected with? Pennsylvania Central?

A. They are all connected with the same company. I presume they represent the Cleveland and Cincinnati—that western part of the Pennsylvania Central.

A. I didn't know that there was any difference. Mr. Thaw is certainly connected with the Pennsylvania Central. I think he is one of the vice presidents.

A. I don't really know what their positions were. I was solicited by these men to interview them, supposing that they were the proper authorities in the matter. Mr. Thaw was proper authority in the absence of Colonel Scott or other officials that could not be found.

Q. What success did you meet with in trying to organize a force on Sunday morning?

A. On Sunday morning the citizens met near the old city hall and formed a kind of organization there, and finally adjourned to the new city hall, and there we organized a committee of safety, composed of citizens, to take measures to assist the mayor—employ a force of policemen, as he was very deficient in a police force at the time, and had but a few men on duty; and the object was to organize a strong police force to aid and assist the mayor in suppressing the riot, which then had become very alarming. We were all day nearly in doing a very little. The citizens seemed to be panic stricken, and there seemed to be no head at all in the city amongst the officials or amongst the people. The mayor seemed to be powerless. The sheriff, I believe, had ran away, and, in fact, we seemed to have no city government for the protection of the city or the people.

A. The mayor—he didn't do a great deal, he seemed to be running around at one thing and another, and he seemed to be so confused and incapable of organizing anything, that he really did do nothing. I understood there was two companies of troops come down from up the Monongahela in charge of an old army companion of mine. I suggested that he had better try to get those two companies, and take them down where the riot was going on, and do something. We found that these troops had returned again, and they were not there, and we came back again, and, finding that the riot was still going on and nothing being done, he authorized me to collect as many citizens as I possibly could, and go down there and see if we could suppress the disturbance, and I organized about sixty men, composed partly of lawyers, a few physicians, and other gentlemen, who were determined to use every effort to suppress the disturbance; and we first armed ourselves with axe handles, which a gentleman on Wood street procured for us out of his store. I considered that didn't look very military, and somebody suggested that there were rifles at the Western University, up on Diamond street, and we concluded to make a raid on the university. We did so, with the sanction of the mayor, and we got the rifles, and then there was no ammunition, and we put the bayonets on them, and with a company of sixty men, and myself as the colonel—I had been commissioned by the mayor to act as such—we marched down to the scene of the riot and arson, each gentleman had a white handkerchief tied on his arm to distinguish them from the rest of the crowd that was there assembled—it may look very ludicrous just now, but it was a very serious matter then. We marched down amongst them, and the crowd sort of stood to one side and let us pass through. I arranged the men on each side of Liberty street, where I supposed they were going to set lire to the large stores. At that time the grain elevator had been destroyed, and the property adjoining the metal yard, adjoining this large ware-house, was also on fire. There was a fence running from the middle yard up to one of the stores, I proposed to some of the rioters present to tear that fence down and save that property, two or three of them said, well, what do you want, I said we didn't want private property destroyed, so a gang of them went over and tore the fence down, and the flames didn't extend any further in that direction. After staying there some time, and seeing that there was no evidence of breaking into stores or setting fire to private property, we retired; that is, we retreated to the city hall, and stacked our arms in the building, and dispersed for the night. The next morning we were not organized again, the city seemed pretty quiet, and the crowd had understood that the citizens were taking an active part in protecting the city.

Q. Let me ask you a question there. Supposing you had arrived with your regiment—you say you were a commissioned colonel—suppose you had arrived on the ground before the fire reached the Union depot, do you think that you could have kept the mob back and prevented the firing of the Union depot with that body?

A. I do think that if I had been authorized and given me fifty or sixty good men, that understood their duty, and were obedient to orders and had loaded rifles before that depot burned, it could have been saved. I went there and tried to save that depot, and took Bishop Tuigg with me to go out there, thinking that there might be a number of our countrymen there engaged in that, and that he would have some influence with them, to save the property of the company, and save the building. I stood on the platform of a car with the bishop, and he first addressed them, and in looking over the crowd, I found that the crowd were not Irishmen. As we soon discovered, they began throwing iron ore and other missiles at the bishop's head, which no good Catholic would do, unless he was an Orangeman. I also addressed them, and a burly fellow came up and said, get down from here, Doctor, we are going to set fire to this, and I considered it most prudent to get down. With fifty good men, I would have cleared that place in a very few minutes.

A. I would know him if I ever saw him. I felt very vindictive towards him at that moment. I did try to save an engine by pulling a fellow off who would not allow the engineer to try to run it off. I pulled him off and said let that man take the engine off. He was drunk at the time, and he said something to me, but anyhow they kept the engine there until it was burned. If the officials even of the depot—if the officials of the road, or the employés of the road, had any courage at all on Monday, they could have saved that building. There was no trouble about it, because the outside people were perfectly indifferent, looking on and affording no resistance.

Q. Supposing the officials connected with the road there had made an effort to have driven them back, what effect would that have had upon the crowd?

A. I think not. I think the citizens were all disposed at that time to aid to enforce law and order. It was the feeling. That was on Sunday, mind you. On Sunday afternoon at that time I believe every citizen was disposed to enforce law and order, and that the rioting element would not have had any chance whatever, and they would not have been supported.

A. From my looking at them and looking amongst them, and as they were assembled together to listen to what we had to say, I don't think there was fifty men really.

A. I don't think there was that many, because they were dispersed amongst the crowd of people, and you could only tell the bad element amongst them by their appearance, and by their dress, and by their half drunken condition.

Q. Had you any talk with the mayor during the day, Sunday, about sending out a posse of policemen there?

A. I had talked with the mayor on several occasions. I urged him to try to organize a force, and I asked him several times very plainly why he had not arrested these rioters, I mean the strikers, the head of them, that were inciting riot, and he said that he had done his duty in that respect, but that he had been superseded Ivy Mr. Hampton and Dalzell, and other persons connected with the railroad, in taking it out of his hands, and placing the authority in the hands of the sheriff, and that he would let them manage the matter—something to that effect—and that seemed to be his principal reason for not having acted more energetically—that the officers of the road had taken the matter out of his hands.

A. I didn't see him out there, I think, unless he was there, and I didn't see him. I was going to say that these are some of the strikers who sent the communication [indicating a paper] to the mayor and myself. This is addressed to the Honorable Mr. McCarthy and Doctor Donnelly. Metzgar was chief clerk of the mayor at that time, and this communication was sent. I had been soliciting these strikers to aid us in suppressing the riot, to enter in with us, and make their appearance amongst us, to show that they were not in favor of pillaging, burning, &c. This is addressed to the Honorable M. J. McCarthy: "Have gone to the Twenty-sixth street, with Cunningham, of the strikers, with McKeon. Say they will try to go down at once to new city hall to join you, and will do my best." That is underlined: "Will do my very best. Tell Donnelly, if they come, see that they get instructions." That is, I was to go down with the force, at that time, with proper instructions. That is the name of the gentleman, I can hardly make it out, it is very peculiar writing, "W. N. Riddle," I should think it was. He was to aid and assist us, with his strikers, to suppress these disturbances.

A. That was not the man. That man I could never find afterwards. He was a tall man, a thin spare-faced man, a very active man, he seemed to have some influence over them. One of the strikers gave me that, [indicating paper.] I understood it was from a principal one of them, at the time.

A. Men that should have done their duty, as citizens, were promenading Fifth avenue, and it was very difficult to get citizens. I must say to the credit of the bar, that they did their duty.

Q. Will you give us the names of some of the lawyers that were members of that company?

A. Colonel Haymaker was one of them, Mr. Harper was another—there was quite a number, Dr. Sutton was one, he was second in command. I have the names of most of them.

Q. I believe you find lawyers and doctors among the best citizens, as a general thing?

Q. Could you have got fifty or sixty good men, with rifles and ammunition, at the time that you and Bishop Tuigg went up to remonstrate with the mob?

A. We could not—not at that time. We had been ineffectual all day to organize a company, and there was no arms to be had yet; there was troops at the old city hall, but there seemed to be nobody in command to do anything, to take the responsibility, there seemed to be really no person at the head of anything.

A. Yes; it appeared, as I said before, it appeared that the mayor was indifferent. He said that it was the railroad company that was running this thing, and he would let them run it.

Q. You say there was troops at the city hall. How many, and who were they—what organization?

A. There was part of a company of the Nineteenth regiment—a company there of the Nineteenth regiment. I forget who had charge of them. I know the gentleman very well, but I cannot think of his name. He went out afterwards in command of one of the regiments to the east from here. A tall, nice-looking young man. He had charge of the regiment. Howard, I think it was—Hartley Howard, I think, was the gentleman.

Q. Had the mayor intimated to you that the railroad officials had taken this matter into their own hands?

A. They had interfered with him in executing an order. They had interfered in arresting some man. He had not acted as promptly as they thought. It appears that Mr. Hampton and Dalzell—I think he used the names jointly—had taken these writs from him and given them into the hands of the sheriff.

Q. You said a while ago that the sheriff had run away. How did you know he had run away?

A. He was not to be found anywhere. I had not seen him that day. I heard he had left. They had threatened to burn his house, and he had left the city. As the sheriff is a man subject to heart disease, I presume it was his duty not to risk his life amongst them. I heard there was a strong feeling against him, and he had left. I had not seen the sheriff after that day.

Q. You stated in your speech to the people that you had been informed by those who led the strike that they would manage the matter prudently, so as to have no trouble. Who were those parties that informed you they were leading the strike? Can you give us the names?

A. I can ascertain the names of some of them, but I don't know the names now. I don't remember them. There was one little man very active. His brother keeps a drug store at the corner of Twenty-eighth and Penn streets. He seemed to be very active amongst them.

A. No, sir; I can find out his name. I can find out the names of several of them. I think I have them written down. This gent—I thought his name was attached to that paper—was a city man, very active. He seemed to be the leading spirit amongst them, but I found he was the man that brought that document there.

Q. How do you account for the apathy or cowardice that existed in the city about going out to take steps to stop this?

A. The only way I can account for it is that there was a feeling amongst the people that these men had been treated very unjustly by the railroad company; that it had reduced their wages down to a starvation point, and that they had been treated unjustly. There has been a feeling here more or less ever since I have been in Pittsburgh—twelve years—since the war, against the railroad company, on account of its unjust actions against the mercantile interests of Pittsburgh. There has always been more or less of that kind of feeling against the company, as I told the Governor in my interview with him on the Sunday night that he was here. That feeling has existed against Tom Scott and the railroad company. The overbearing manner of their officials, and their want of making any compromise whatever, or showing any disposition whatever to compromise with their employés; that has been the feeling engendered in this city for years.

A. It is amongst almost the whole class of people, intelligent as well as ignorant, that feeling has existed.

A. The business men—many of the business men—have been bitter enemies of the road on account of the discrimination in freights that has existed. That feeling has permeated the whole community—it permeated the whole community, and I had that same feeling and that same antagonism to the road myself. As I told the Governor, Tom Scott should come down from his empyrean and mingle amongst the people, and he should assert his right of being Governor of the State, and not Tom Scott.

Q. In your negotiations, mingling with the strikers and endeavoring to adjust matters, did you ascertain the reason or the cause of the strike?

A. This was the cause that I stated, just what is set forth in this paper, [indicating paper,] that was the cause, and that was what they wanted, an adjustment on that basis.

A. They would not permit anybody, they had confidence in me or they wouldn't have entrusted me. They saw I was disposed to do what was right. I acted prudently with them.

Q. Were any of the strikers, that is the railroad employés, who first struck, engaged in this arson, burning, and pillaging?

A. The persons whom I saw engaged in this arson business, and the crowd that I addressed on Sunday were rioters. They appeared to me to be all strangers. They were not really citizens of Pittsburgh. They appeared to me to be all strangers. There was no strikers. I saw none of the strikers that I knew, whose countenances I would remember amongst the rioters. They appeared to keep aloof. They appeared to keep away, and when we wanted to find them or have any conversation with them, we had our meeting down at their place. The bishop and the delegation of citizens from this committee of public safety, went down to meet them away down at their head-quarters, at Twenty-eighth street, where we had a conference with them. They were perfectly powerless, yet disposed to do all they could to save the property and suppress the riot.

A. That is more than I can tell you who they were. They appeared to be a class of men I had never seen before.

A. Many of them looked like laboring men. Most of them were young men, reckless young fellows, half drunk, and of a class you would call roughs, which you will find always around cities and places where there is anything going on, you don't know who they are—they appeared to be all young men.

A. No, sir; I judged that. That was our effort to save the depot. I induced the bishop to go down myself.

Q. In the practice of your profession, have you become acquainted, more or less, with the laboring men about the city?

A. Yes; I have. I am a great deal amongst them—factories, mills, and all around the neighborhood. I have a great deal of intercourse with that class of people as a surgeon amongst them.

A. I didn't recognize—yes, I recognized two men, that I have since endeavored to find, who were amongst the rioters—that was the only two.

A. Yes; they were there present, and one of them, when I was addressing the crowd, made the remark to me that they wouldn't put confidence in any man, no matter what he said, and that man I would know again. He was one of them, and he was an aider and abettor. I have gone frequently around the depot since; and I think he was employed by the company. I would know him if I was to see him. The other man, that threw the piece of iron ore at my head, I would know him. I have never met him.

Q. Do you know whether any of your command—of your company had been called upon by the sheriff to join his posse to suppress the riot the day before, or at any time.

A. I don't know whether they ever had or not. I don't think the sheriff was about on Sunday.

A. I don't know whether he was Saturday night or not. I don't know, sir, anything about the sheriff and his posse. There was no sheriff or posse that I saw at all.

Q. Were you at the Union depot at any time during the riots of July last—first you may state where you reside?

A. I got notice from my colonel, who is captain of the Black Hussars, who sent a man to me with a note that one of his men lost a cap on the road, and for me to bring him one. I went out myself and met them at the depot there—the Black Hussars, and I saw—I suppose it was the First regiment or Second Philadelphia—the infantry getting ready to march out the track; and I was talking to my colonel, and asking him how things goes, and what he came on here for. Says he: "I don't know." He says: "I suppose we came on here to keep peace here in Pittsburgh." I staid there with him for about an hour and a half. I told him, says I: "Colonel, you better come down to my house. There is nothing going on here. It is all nonsense to remain here. Leave your men here and come down with me;" and so he did.

A. Captain Chues, of the Black Hussars. He was my colonel in the army. We went down home and got something to eat and a few glasses of beer, and all at once an orderly sent word to say: "Captain hurry up, they are firing on front." I went out with him to the depot, and staid there until dark with him. They had charge of the ammunition from General Brinton, at the Union depot. I staid there until dark, and the infantry was out, and a great many people passing along Liberty street, and hollering and cheering over to the boys, but they didn't take any notice. I told the colonel, says I, "never mind, just leave them talk and mind their own business." So they did, I says, "colonel, I am going home. I will be back again in a short time." I had to see how business was at home. Everything was upside down in the city. I came back about eight o'clock, and went to the depot again, and I found there was nobody there. I asked where they were, and they said they were in the round-house. I could not go out there, because I was alone myself, and I understood they were at the same time in the Union depot, up stairs—all of them—hid up.

A. I had it from Major Howard, of the Fourteenth regiment, whose company was there stationed in the Union depot. This was after this.

A. He says "they are not there." Then I went back home again in the street cars, and I see a great mob making raids on the bonds for whisky—anything they could find—nearly opposite the street car where I was in. I went home. About twelve o'clock I went to the depot again. I thought it was the best thing for me to see where these boys are.

A. Yes. I went out with one of my men to find out where they were. I saw General Howard, of the Fourteenth regiment, right at the gate where the train comes in. I went to him. Says I, "Do you know anything about the Black Hussars." Says he, "Captain, I don't." Says I, "Are they in the round-house." Says he, "I don't know anything about it." I went out over where the ammunition was, and didn't see anybody except two or three watchmen around with lanterns. I ask them where they were, and they said they didn't know, that they must be in the round-house. I couldn't believe it, because I know Colonel Clines ain't going to block himself up in a cage. Says I, "If I can't find them, there is no use for me to go out in the round-house." I went home again, and couldn't get any satisfaction. All at once, Sergeant Wilder, from Philadelphia, orderly sergeant of the company of Black Hussars, about half-past two o'clock in the morning, I was sitting on the bed, and he asked some policeman where my house was, and he told him he didn't know. Everybody knows me, where my house is, especially policemen, and he says he didn't know where Captain Gallisath lived. He passed my house two or three times before he could find it. All at once, he asked somebody, and they told him, and he rang the bell, and I was sitting on the bed. I was not going to undress until I heard some news. A darkey, he showed him the road. He came up and told me the whole thing as it stands. Says he, "We are in the Union depot, and I don't know how to get out." I got all my boys up, and said they should throw out every stitch of clothes they had in their possession. I went out and took them all out in two squads over the hill. They couldn't get through Liberty street.

A. There was sixteen or seventeen. I think there was seventeen. I kept them there until I got word from General Brinton, and I took them over to the West Penn road, and sent them home. General Pearson, I suppose, gave them a pass. The Black Hussars were on the road to Philadelphia, and were telegraphed to come back to the junction again.

Q. They were placed in the Union depot to guard the ammunition, Captain Clines at the head?

Q. Was that all that came there Saturday—Saturday afternoon—sixteen in number?

A. That is all they had, seventeen—I suppose it was seventeen—I had them in my house. They had nothing but sabers. They had no carbines nor pistols nor anything.

A. General Brinton gave Captain Clines orders to take charge of the ammunition, so they could ship it to the front, but they never came back again, the Philadelphia troops.

A. No; they were up in the round-house, and Sunday morning went away to the other side of the river.

A. The understanding was, that they were cut off from General Brinton, and nobody knew the ammunition was in there, except himself and his boys.

A. I am very well satisfied he couldn't take it away. I heard the cartridges cracking around there on Sunday when they burned up. General Brinton had no ammunition, whatever, when he was cut off, and he couldn't get none—not what he brought from Philadelphia.

A. They left their sabers there when I took them up the hill, but they got them back afterwards, and I shipped them to Philadelphia my own self.

Q. How many people were there along Diamond street when you took these clothes out?

A. They couldn't march from Union depot on Liberty street, they had to go around the hill and over the Pan-Handle road by the tunnel and back here—that is where the nigger took them around.

A. I sent the clothes out. They went in two squads. We hadn't so many clothes to dress them all at once, the mob was waiting for them to come out.

Q. You are a military man, and have had a great deal of experience in the army. In your opinion, could these sixteen men have cut their way out with their sabers?

A. I couldn't see how. They didn't know the road, nor anything. They were strangers.

A. I don't see how they could do it with sabers, when the mob was standing outside with stones and pistols. What did them sixteen men want to do with sabers.

A. There was a big crowd there. They couldn't, I am satisfied. I wouldn't have risked it, and I wouldn't be afraid if I were acquainted in the city, and know my road.

A. They had nothing but their sabers, that is all. I saw them all. They had nothing but their pocket knives. Some of them had no knives, because they went away so quick, they didn't know where they were going, and they thought they were going a few miles outside of Philadelphia.

Q. Do you know whether there was any effort made to take any provisions or ammunition to the troops in the round-house on Saturday night?

Q. The general cry was against the Philadelphia soldiers. That intimidated these men, did it?

A. Oh! yes; I was right with them. I suppose they would if they could. A man says to me, what I got business to do with the Philadelphia troops, keeping conversation with them. I told him that is my business.

Q. Was it known to the crowd that these Black Hussars were quartered in your house? Did the crowd know that the Black Hussars were in your house?

A. No; not that Sunday. They found it out on Monday, though. The people came in the house keeping very nice, quiet conversation with them. I never heard a wrong word on Wednesday. The house was crowded, and they were sitting around with them, drinking beer. It was all right; very nice, quiet conversation.

Q. Just state what you know of the movements of the sheriff during the riots of July last?

A. At the time of the first disturbance, which occurred on Thursday evening, it was preceding the Saturday on which——

A. Yes; the 19th. I knew nothing whatever of anything the sheriff had done, or had been called on to do. I was informed the next morning that during the night of Thursday the sheriff had been called on by the solicitor of one of the railroads—Mr. Scott—by some of the railroad officials, during the night, and that he had been at Twenty-eighth street during that night, but I knew nothing of it personally. My residence is five miles—nearly six miles—from here, though in the city of Pittsburgh, and I was not sent for that night. The next day I became acquainted with what had been done, but I think I did not see the sheriff at all. He was out at Torrens station during a considerable portion of the day, with the railroad officers, and I don't remember to have seen him that day. I think he had been up pretty much all the night before, and was out, away from his office, the greater part of Friday, and I don't think I saw him at all on Friday. On Saturday morning I saw the sheriff, and had a full conference with him in his office. The sheriff submitted to me what he had done. Gave me an account of his meeting the rioters on Thursday night, and of his being out at Torrens station on Friday, where I think he was a considerable part of the day—at one place or the other—at least, I did not find him during business hours; and of his notification of the Governor that he was not able to deal, in his opinion, with the rioters or mob that had obstructed the running of the trains. Of course, I made inquiry as to the magnitude of the gatherings, to learn something about their threatening, hostile character. In fact, had known myself, personally, coming in on the road, that the trains were detained. I said to him that I entirely approved, as a matter of law, of what he had done in notifying the Governor to send on troops. The view I had of the act of 1864, I think it is, was that the Governor, on reliable information from any quarter where there was insurrection that the legal authorities were not able to deal with, might call out the troops, and I approved of that; but on Saturday morning the attorneys of the Pennsylvania railroad went into the court of common pleas No. 2, and obtained warrants for the arrest of a number of persons—my recollection is, fifteen in number—who were charged as leaders of this riotous movement. I think the warrants were addressed to a constable of the name of Richardson, and the solicitors of the road made a demand on the sheriff that morning for a posse comitatus to attend the arresting officers, and support him in the discharge of that duty. This took place sometime in the morning, at or after eleven o'clock in the morning—it was after eleven o'clock, I think—and I advised the sheriff to assemble a posse comitatus—as large a number of men as he could obtain—that three or four hundred would not be too large, and it was understood, at that time, that troops would arrive that evening. They would arrive here at twelve o'clock, or about twelve o'clock, perhaps earlier than twelve, on a train that arrived here between eleven and twelve o'clock, and it was understood the arrangement was, that the civil authorities were to make these arrests, the constable supported by the sheriff and his posse comitatus, and that the military were to be on the ground. There was, indeed, very little time for obtaining a posse comitatus at that time, but the sheriff sent out his deputies, some fifteen or sixteen of them, with instructions to bring in a posse comitatus. There was not time to write out summonses and serve them in any way, but I said to him that it would be a sufficient demand upon a person to attend if given verbally, that it was better to have a written notice, if there was time, which there was not then—less than an hour to do it all in. These deputies went out, some fourteen or fifteen of them, but they severally came in and reported at an interval of an hour, or an hour and a half—it was nearly one o'clock—and the result was, I think, but two men were obtained. I remember of one man being brought into the office who was very much alarmed. The sheriff asked him if he was willing to go. He said he was not willing to go; he was afraid to go. The sheriff reproached him with cowardice, and said he did not want that kind of a fellow to attend him. I think not more than two men were obtained. Sometime between twelve and one—I think nearer one than twelve—the sheriff, with his own deputies, went up to the Union depot. I think all his deputies, with the exception of one or two, perhaps, who were not then in the city. Every deputy he had in the city attended him, including his two sons and his brother, and they went up to the Union depot, and I think the constable was with him. I am not entirely sure about that. I attended them myself up as far as the Union depot. I know we went there, and some of the military had arrived there from Philadelphia at that time, but I think not all of them. I know nothing more as to what occurred on that afternoon, for I was not at Twenty-eighth street when the firing took place, and my personal knowledge ends with this, that the sheriff himself personally went. I cannot relate about anything that took place on Saturday night, or after that time, for I was not in that part of the city, but was at home.

Q. Do you know when it was that she sheriff made the call on the Governor for troops to support him?

A. I only know from what he told me himself, and what I have heard others say, and what I have seen printed—it must have been on Thursday night, the 19th.

Q. In your opinion, had the sheriff then exhausted his powers and resources to cope with the mob?

A. I, of course, cannot judge that; that is a question of fact. I can only judge of it from what other people have told me. I can judge from what I personally have seen of this mob myself, coming in on the train every day, for these trains had been delayed for two or three days. The freight trains were accumulating, and had been detained for some days before that or some time before that—at least one day—one whole day, if not another. I should judge from the crowds I saw assembled about the trains myself, and from descriptions of them by others, that it was not possible for the sheriff with any posse comitatus that he could obtain to deal with them, and I will tell you on what I found my opinion. This was a combination, I may say, of what we call here in Pittsburgh, the striking element. I don't think any man will say that he found a preponderance of the railroad men in their assemblages about Twenty-eighth street, or the Union depot, or other places on the road. Everybody out of work who belonged to what we call the striking population, were directed by sympathy or opinion towards these people. It was not a body of railroad men alone, and I don't think that the larger part of them were railroad men—the iron workers, the people who work in rolling mills, and the people who work in the various branches of industry, were all in sympathy with them, so far as I observed, and so far as my knowledge, derived from others, extends, and it was a sort of massing of the striking element here. The strike of the Pennsylvania railroad men being simply the occasion that brought them together.

Q. Let me ask you another question: In your judgment, had the sheriff at that time, under the act of 1864, laid the grounds for calling on the Governor for aid?

A. I don't remember—I have not the act of 1864 before me, and I don't remember whether it defines any ground. My recollection is, that the act itself does not define more than in general terms, at least, the ground upon which the executive aid maybe invoked. I was satisfied of this, and I think Senator Scott was. I know from his conversations with me that it was such a gathering, with such a purpose, and with such a determination that, at least, the Pennsylvania Railroad Company did not expect to deal with them without military forces to aid them, and I think that that was the prevalent impression. One of the sheriffs deputies told me that, though he had served in the army three years, he never had encountered any danger that alarmed him like the danger he expected to encounter here. He was a man willing to do his duty. It was a mob that inspired some terror, even at that time. Before any blood was shed, there was a general apprehension of trouble. I have seen many strikes here of coal diggers, of men engaged in iron mills and glass houses, and the various departments of industry. In fact, we have been a good deal accustomed to them, but there had never before been very much actual, positive mischief coming from them, and I never before saw a mob the people were afraid of, before that one in this city. However, I must say I saw but little of it until Saturday, and then the soldiers had been called out under the command of General Pearson, and some Philadelphia soldiers had arrived. On Saturday, the feeling was angry, it was threatening and severe.

Q. What preparations is it necessary for the sheriff to make, or what are his duties under the laws of the State of Pennsylvania before calling on the Governor for aid?

A. Well, gentlemen, I think the law on that subject has been very much changed by the act of 1864. That is here. I would like to refer you to it. I think very radical changes were made in the law relative to calling out the militia, by the act of 1864, that has been much adverted to lately. I think it establishes a very different system.

A. I think so. I think it is altogether different. As I understand that law, it is not necessary at all that the sheriff should notify the Governor. It might be done by the mayor, or alderman, or even by any citizen. The Governor himself judges of the sufficiency.

Q. As you understand the law, is it necessary for the sheriff to make an effort to obtain a posse comitatus before calling on the Governor?

A. I certainly would think the sheriff, the principal peace officer of the county, ought to make some effort to get a posse comitatus to control that riot; but there are cases where the riot has taken such proportions, as I think this one had—I do not regard it as local at all, for it extended from the Mississippi to the Atlantic—there are such cases where no posse comitatus could deal with them at all.

Q. At the time the sheriff made the call on the Governor, was it not principally local?

A. As to that I cannot speak from personal knowledge. What has been told to me was, in substance, this: That when the sheriff first met the gathering at Twenty-eighth street, there was a large collection of people, numbering, I don't know how many, but one or two thousand people, and this was in the middle of the night—towards eleven o'clock at night. They were gathered there. They insulted the sheriff, threw all sorts of reproaches upon him, blasphemy and obscenity of the very worst character were employed—this I don't know personally, but it has been told to me—and threats were made. Now, it is a question upon which you can judge as well as I, whether, when a crowd can be brought together at that hour of the night—a crowd greatly in excess of all the railroad men in this part of the country—whether any collection of citizens you might obtain, would be able to successfully disperse them, and it is a question very hard to determine.

Q. Would it, in your judgment, be the duty of the sheriff to make an effort to obtain a posse before calling on the Governor?

A. Unless the effort was plainly fruitless, I would not understand the law to require him to do a thing that is plainly unnecessary. If an armed force would come into the county which the sheriff evidently could not deal with citizens, especially without arms, I would not think it necessary to expose himself to any sacrifice of life. If the disturbance were local, I think he ought to make a serious effort to disperse it, before calling on the Governor. The law, as I understand it, and the only law in force on this subject, is the act of 1864, which was passed during the war—during the time of the rebellion, and when there were disturbances in different parts of this State. I understand it authorizes the Governor to call out the militia, on any information that satisfies his mind, whether it is of an official character or not. It is in these terms:

"When an invasion of, or insurrection in, the State is made or threatened, or a tumult, riot, or mob shall exist, the commander-in-chief shall call upon the militia to repel or suppress the same, and may order our divisions, brigades, regiments, battalions, or companies, or may order to be detached parts or companies thereof, or any number of men to be drafted therefrom, and may cause officers to be detailed, sufficient with those attached to the troops to organize the forces."

That was not the law until 1864. At one period in Pennsylvania, when the military were called out, they were to be under the command of the sheriffs. That was changed by the act of 1857—I am not entirely sure about that—it was about that time, and in case of an insurrection, application was to be made to a judge, and so forth. But it will be observed that that law seems to supply all existing legislation on the subject, and applies to cases of insurrection, invasion, mobs, tumults, and riots, and also authorized the Governor when these exist, to call them out, though it don't prescribe on what terms or conditions he shall call them out. I take it that if you, Mr. Chairman, or any gentleman in whom the Governor had confidence, were to communicate with him information that a mob or tumult existed, and it was necessary to call out forces to deal with them, he would be perfectly authorized in calling out the militia, whether his information is of official character or not.

Q. Did you communicate your views, as you have given them to us, to Sheriff Fife?

A. Yes; I said I approved of what he had done. He had sent these telegrams on Thursday night, and as I stated to you, I didn't see him until afternoon.

A. I approved of what he had done, and I think that view was the view of Mr. Scott, the solicitor of the railroad, and I think of everybody that were cognizant of the fact. At a later period, during the week succeeding the destruction of the property, the various railroads here—the Fort Wayne and Chicago, the Pittsburgh and Cleveland, and the Allegheny Valley, the Baltimore and Ohio, and the Charleston and Virginia road sent written demands to the sheriff, setting forth that a tumultuous body of men were holding their property, and threatening to destroy it, and calling upon him to protect the property. The sheriff made a demand for aid upon General Brown, who was in command of the Sixth division, having succeeded General Pearson, who had been relieved, to enable him to protect this property. I cannot give you the views the military had of their duty here——

A. There is a communication, and a copy of the communication, written by myself, and sent to General Brown, in fact, it is the original letter, which I have here, to General Brown, making a demand, and I have a copy of his reply. The sheriff, at the same time, or before that time, had constituted General James S. Negley his deputy, for the purpose of preserving the public peace and dispersing the rioters. General Negley was recruiting a body of men to act in preserving the peace. It was said he had several hundred men, and the sheriff, after consultation, clothed him with all the civil character which the sheriff himself had in dealing with these disturbances.

A. That was done somewhere about the 25th of July. It is about the date of this letter. [Indicating.] This letter will, perhaps, explain about what the sheriff's views of duty were, if you will permit me to read it.

Q. I don't see hardly how that would be necessary, because he called upon the Governor as commander-in-chief to send troops?

A. There were no troops here at that time, except the Sixth regiment. General Brinton had been here on Saturday, but he had left with his troops. There were no troops here, except the Sixth division, commanded then by General Brown, and composed of the Fourteenth, Eighteenth, and Nineteenth regiments.

Q. Is this of a character to give directions to General Brown or asking him for aid?

Sheriff's Office, Pittsburgh, July 26, 1877.

To General Joseph Brown, in command of the Sixth Division National Guard of Pennsylvania:

Sir: I have the honor to enclose to you copies of the following communications, addressed to me under date of the 25th and 26th days of July, inst., by Messrs. Hampton and Dalzell, solicitors for the Pennsylvania company, operating the Pittsburgh, Fort Wayne and Chicago railway, and the Cleveland and Pittsburgh railroad; also by the same parties, solicitors of the Pittsburgh, Cincinnati and St. Louis Railway Company; also by the same parties, solicitors of the Pittsburgh, Virginia and Charleston Railroad Company, and by Welty McCullough, solicitor of the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad Company and the Pittsburgh and Connellsville Railroad Company, representing, in substance, that the property of the respective railway companies is in immediate and constant danger of destruction at the hands of a body of rioters and disaffected workmen, which may at any time become a mob, and which said companies believe has an intention of destroying said property.

I beg leave to inform you that since the present disturbances began I have made efforts to summon a posse comitatus to suppress the unlawful and riotous proceedings of the persons referred to in the enclosed communications, but have been hereto unsuccessful in procuring the services of any considerable number of men willing to come to my aid as a posse comitatus. My consequent inability to disperse the unlawful assemblages referred to (or some of them) has been communicated to the Governor, who has ordered out the military power of the State for that purpose. I cannot protect the property referred to without your aid. Can you give it? I am well persuaded that no mere civil force that I can raise can protect this property. If you can give me the aid of your military force please inform in writing immediately.

Yours respectfully,

R. H. Fife,
Sheriff.

Signed by the sheriff. It was dated the 26th, and the answer of General Brown came two days afterwards, July 28th, and is as follows:

[Official Business.]

Headquarters Sixth Division, National Guard, Pennsylvania.

(Copy.)

Pittsburgh, July 28, 1877.

Hon. R. H. Fife, Sheriff Allegheny county, Pennsylvania:

Sir: Yours of date 25th instant came to hand July 26, at 7.20, P.M., in which you request the aid of the National Guard of Pennsylvania to protect the property of the several railroad companies centering in the city of Pittsburgh, now threatened by mobs. You will, wherever there may be any riotous proceedings, bring all the powers with which you are clothed to disperse the rioters. After you have made such effort and are overpowered, your posse comitatus completely driven from the ground, then I am ready and fully able to assist you, and am now ready to assist you, when assured your power is exhausted.

Very respectfully,

Joseph Brown,
Brigadier General commanding Sixth Division N.G.P.

Received July 28, 1877, at 9.30, A.M.

I sent a verbal message to ask General Brown whether he thought it was his duty to wait until the posse comitatus was completely driven from the ground. If his duty was merely to bury the dead, we could get somebody to do that as well as him.

A. It was after any actual destruction of property, and this railroad property was still held by the rioters, and they wouldn't allow trains to move.

A. It was just a week. The Governor hadn't arrived with his troops, and didn't arrive until some days afterwards—the next week.

A. General Brown had under his control the Fourteenth regiment and the Eighteenth regiment and the Nineteenth regiment, Pennsylvania National Guards, all raised in and about this place.

A. I cannot say how many were on duty, except from what I have heard, but I have heard the number estimated, and I think I have heard military men say some three or four hundred altogether. General Brown's head-quarters was less than one square from the court-house, and we could get no answer from him at all until two days afterwards. He says in his reply he received the communication, twenty minutes past seven, P.M., on the 26th. After waiting two days he replied, and replied in the manner set forth.

Q. I wish you to state where Sheriff Fife was on Sunday, during the riot, so far as you know?

A. I didn't see him any time during the day, but I saw him on Monday, the next day. It was reported that the sheriff had been killed—it was telegraphed all over the country. I saw the sheriff on Monday, was in his company, and in his office. As to the sheriff himself, I may say this about it, that I personally advised the sheriff, when he went up on Saturday, to constitute a deputy to take charge of this force. The sheriff had, three times during the year preceding, been at the point of death with heart disease, and I don't think he was in a fit condition to go at all, but he insisted on going, and did go, both on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. I know nothing more, gentlemen, that I can tell you about this.

Pursuant to adjournment, the committee met at three o'clock. All present except Messrs. Means, Reyburn, and Torbert.

Q. State whether you had any negotiations or any conference with the strikers during the riots of July last, and if so, what it was?

A. I had conversations with the strikers on, I think, Friday before the riot, and Sunday of the riot.

Q. State what the conference was on Friday—that is, you mean Friday, the 21st of July?

A. Friday before the riot. The conversation was at East Liberty, with the strikers. I went there to see about some stock that had been consigned to us. While there, I got in conversation with them. They seemed to demand their rights of the railroad, but they didn't want to inconvenience any stock dealers there, nor anybody else—didn't seem to want to interfere with the business—wanted their rights—seemed peaceable enough to me on Sunday. I suppose the paper that is here—that is what I am to testify—in regard to that, (the paper referred to by the witness is the paper written to W. C. McCarthy, and will be found in the testimony of Doctor Donnelly,) I was requested, I think, by Major McCarthy, after the citizens meeting on Sunday, at the city hall, to go to Twenty-eighth street and see if I could make any arrangements, or see what the feeling was out among the strikers. I went there, and found this man Cunningham—I don't say it was him, it was a man that was pointed out to me as Cunningham. He said he was willing to go down and join Captain McMunn, and help us citizens suppress the mob. Then this paper was to go to the mayor. I met some one on the corner who said he was going there, and he, this man Cunningham said, would deliver the note properly, and he sent this note to the mayor. This man Cunningham said, that he also thought the Pennsylvania railroad had treated them wrong, but that he was very much opposed to the destruction of property, and that he was willing to join with the citizens, and go down and help suppress the mob then going on—I suppose they were at that time. I couldn't state what hour this was. They must have been in and about the Union depot and elevator.

A. I know nothing at all. Never saw him before or since this day. Wouldn't know him now.

Q. He was a brakeman or engineer on the railroad—one of the strikers said to be at the meeting at the city hall. I cannot testify that that was the man.

Q. This is the note you sent to the mayor after the conversation with Cunningham?

"Honorable W. C. McCarthy: I have gone to Twenty-sixth street. Cunningham, of the strikers, with Captain McMunn, say they will try to go down at once to new city hall to join you. I will do my best. Tell Doctor Donnelly; and if they come, see that they get instructions." "Instructions" meant—I suppose that means get instruction where to go.

A. That I wouldn't like to say. I suppose it was about four o'clock in the afternoon—Sunday afternoon.

A. He was also a prominent man among the strikers. He made a speech at the city hall that is recorded. A very good hearted man. I knew him before.

Q. Was he in the employ of the railroad company at the time the strike broke out?

A. I cannot say that he was then. I was always led to believe he was before. I used to live at the Union depot, and I know most of these people by sight. I have seen him several times, and talked to him on the street since the riot.

Q. Did you understand from the conference you had with Cunningham that the strikers would unite with good citizens to suppress the riot and disperse the mob?

A. I never got an answer. In fact, I don't think I ever asked, because when I came down the people had all gone up to the depot—all that seemed to want to join. In fact I am positive I never said anything about it afterwards. I suppose if they had gone there they would have been assigned to proper places.

A. Yes; that was the understanding. I think Captain McMunn told me to go to this man Cunningham, and that he would help us.

A. That I can't say. I don't know. They might have joined without my knowing it.

Q. State, if you know, what efforts were made by the city authorities to get a force to suppress the riot and disperse the mob?

Q. Only what you know of your own personal knowledge what effort was made by the mayor and his subordinates to suppress the riots and disperse the mob?

A. I only know that in the morning I went to the mayor and asked—early in the morning——

A. On Saturday. I was in Allegheny that night. I went to the mayor early in the morning, and asked him if there was anything that could be done—asked him if he couldn't get a few extra police by issuing a call for extra police.

A. Mayor McCarthy; yes, sir. He said the police committee were then in session up stairs. I asked him if he would allow me to go up, and request them to issue a call and guarantee their payment. He said, I might. I went up and stated the case, and they said to me, that they had authorized the mayor to employ a certain number, which I don't know now, of police. I went to the mayor and asked him if he would—after that there was a meeting at the city hall, pretty shortly after that—I asked the mayor if he could get any extra police. He said, he couldn't get them, he had tried, and couldn't get them. I joined the mayor after that, and went to the city hall meeting. Going down Fifth avenue, I asked the mayor if he was going to make an attempt to get additional police, as he had been authorized by the police committee. He said he was, but who was going to guarantee the payment of this money. I told him we would fix that part of it, if that was all the hang there was to it. We got to the city hall meeting, went on and got partly through. If I remember right, I said I would be one of so many that would pay the police, if he felt backward about employing them. Then I know after that, he made an attempt to get men, and succeeded, I don't how far, but he got a few, at least, later in the day. I asked him if he was going to send out police, and he said he had not been asked to do so.

A. Yes; I am a friend of Mayor McCarthy, and I am simply testifying as a citizen. I think there is very much of a mix somewheres—who it belongs to or where it rests—it ought to be placed somewhere. There is a very decided mix.

Q. I wish to ask you another question. Do you know what efforts were made by the sheriff and his subordinates or the county authorities to suppress the riot?

A. I had been appointed a member of the citizens' committee. I went with them to city hall, and from that went in carriages to the mob.

A. Bishop Tuigg, a father of the catholic church, whose name I have forgotten—Mr. Bennett, I think his name is J. I. Bennett—Mr. J. Parker, junior, and others, whose names I forget at the moment. There were two carriages. Doctor Donnelly, I remember him distinctly, he was there. Our contact with the mob was very brief. Railings were torn from the fence on Liberty street; but we made our way to the end of the platform of the car—the rear platform of the car. One of the gentlemen sought to call the people to order, and introduced Bishop Tuigg, who endeavoured to address them. They listened for a few moments, and then interrupted with questions. After a few moments further they began to throw clinkers or pieces of iron, and we were warned by apparent friends to withdraw, with the words, "It is growing very hot here." Other ineffectual attempts were made to address the meeting. After withdrawing we proceeded to Twenty-sixth street, with a view of meeting the strikers, and attempting to dissociate them from the rioters, with the hope that they would assist in suppressing the riot. It was impossible to find the leaders. One or two, who seemed to have some influence, were finally seen. Then the citizens' committee went to visit the railroad authorities at a private house in Allegheny.

A. Those who were found disclaimed any sympathy with the riot, and they were appealed to do what they could to suppress it.

Q. Did they seem willing to help in suppressing the arson and riot that was then going on?

A. They made no motion in that direction, but there were very few—they were so scattered here and there. So far as I could see, all that was accomplished by that committee was to direct the attention of the few to the efforts that were going on in the city to organize a force. The character of the rioters appeared to me to be such as belonged to people habitually in Pittsburgh. I saw no evidence of their being strangers.

Q. Were there no railroad employés that were actually engaged in the arson and burning and riot?

A. I recognized none whom I knew as railroad employés, but it was evident that somebody that understood the management of engines were there, and the crowd was not wholly confined to those whose dress looked like laboring men. They seemed to have no wish to injure anything but the railroad, and clamored to know whether any proposition came directly from the chief of the road, Mr. Scott, and when they found no such proposition was to be given to them, they would not listen to any other.

A. From half past two to three. Do you wish to know anything in regard to the interview with the authorities?

Q. Yes; I would like to have you relate the interview with the city authorities?

A. By the time we had arrived at the private house, in Allegheny, the depot was in flames, and I think also the elevator. So that they answered in a word, that all the mischief had been done which they could sustain, and they had no proposition for a compromise to make, and it is just to say, that they would have said the same if they had other interests. They plead also the general interest of the community as a reason for not treating with those in rebellion against the authorities. I know nothing whatever in regard to the conduct of the city authorities, except what could be observed from the outside of the building—the city hall—the new city hall—from five to seven o'clock—the formation of the companies—they went up to the scene of the riot, and their return, which I witnessed, that was all.

A. Citizens—young men mainly. Mr. McCune, and myself, and some others were with the mayor at the time of the issuance of the first proclamation, reading, I think, in this way: "Veterans, to the rescue. Meet at city hall at ten o'clock," I think, "the citizens will follow you."

A. Written, I think, by myself, at the instance of the mayor. That was on Monday. There was no citizens' meeting then, that I knew of. This proclamation was designed to meet the necessity which came upon us, through the information of other persons coming from a distance—a boat load down the Monongahela, and the cars full from McKeesport. That was very soon afterward superceded by another notice, and General Negley took the whole charge from that. I was engaged in visiting the wounded. That is all I know in regard to it, except these expressions of opinion I heard here and there.

Q. How many were actually engaged in the burning and riot, when you were out at the scene of the riot?

A. At the time we were there, before the firing of the depot, the multitude was in an elongated form, stretching up the railway, so that all were not visible at any one point. But those that were visible to us, would number anywhere from two to three hundred who seemed actually participating, while towards the city there was a large crowd.

A. Yes; many of whom I recognized as our citizens, and persons of standing in the community. Many statements have been made with regard to the ease of checking the multitude at that point, which are certainly hard to prove. No small force could have stopped them at that time—that is, of course, in my judgment. I know very little about such things. Some boys were in the multitude, and several of them evidently under the influence of drink, and fainting from exhaustion and excitement. But the most of them were stalwart men, under most powerful excitement.

A. We could see that only in a few cases, of course, where it come to such evidence that they were overcome by it. It is evident, there were a number of boys who were on the point of falling, from exposure to the sun.

Q. Were these two or three hundred that you speak of armed, so far as you could see?

A. We saw no arms. The engine that was near us—there seemed to be an effort of some to move it; but, if I understood rightly, those who wished to remove the engine were pulled down from it, and not suffered to move it.

A. The notice I received and read from the pulpit was signed J. I. Burnett, but his name was crossed out, as though he desired it to be impersonal—written hurriedly on a piece of paper with a pencil. I announced, at the time, that "this notice comes to me without signature, and I am unable to say in whose name it is."

A. I came just at its close, but I suppose, from the area they occupied in the street, that it was from one hundred and fifty to two hundred.

Q. This appointment of this committee was with a view of trying to stop the arson and riot by peaceable measures?

A. Conciliation—yes. Our effort with the railroad authorities was based upon previous efforts to dissociate the rioters from the strikers, and remove that cause of complaint, and the only proposition that was made was whether they could make any proposition.

A. We started for the citizens' meeting. We arrived shortly before its close, but for what reason, I could not understand, our chairman made no report. Probably because there was nothing to report—nothing that had been done, or could be done.

Q. How soon after you came back was it before the citizens began to organize into companies for the purpose of protection?

A. Almost within half an hour. While we were standing on the verge of the assembled crowd, they began to form in line, and march to the city hall. I remember the person who headed the column.

A. With muskets, as I understood, taken from the armory of the university, as I was afterwards told, without ammunition.

A. No; it seemed to diminish. Going down to the Duquesne depot, at nine o'clock, I was told that quite a large number had come originally to guard the depot, but all had dispersed, except six.

A. Part of the time in the city and part of the time at Laurel station, four miles below the city.

Q. State whether you accompanied Sheriff Fife to Twenty-eighth street, on the night of Thursday, the 19th of July last, and what took place there?

A. On the 18th of the month, I went to the country. On the 19th I got back. I heard they were striking in town here, and there were a good many men got on the cars coming in along, and they were talking considerably about it on the road coming in—talking that they were coming in to take part in the strike. That was on Thursday, the 19th of the month. I noticed men along the road, on the road coming in, and some of them yelled at those parties who got on the train to send them out grub—they had been out for some time, and hadn't had anything to eat. They were out at East Liberty. I came in town. Didn't notice much of a crowd in the city. That was late in the evening, and I went to bed that evening about nine o'clock. I think it was about two o'clock I was wakened by Sheriff Fife himself. He said they wished us to go to Twenty-eighth street. We got in a carriage and went to Mr. Pitcairn's office, and from there we went out to where there was a considerable of a crowd gathered.

A. The sheriff talked to them, and he told them what the result of it would be, and they would have to go away. If they did not, he would have to send for the military. He said he would use all the power that he could, but, he said, if they would not disperse he would have to send for the military. They hooted him and hissed him and gave him a great deal of bad language while I was there. I turned around and came back to Pitcairn's office, and he told me he would not need me any longer, I might go home. I went home and went to bed.

A. No, sir; not that I know. They were not doing anything at the time we went out there, any more than standing there.

A. No, sir. I believe they said, though, that they would not—they were not going to let any more trains go out, or something to that effect.

A. No, sir; the two of us—I don't think there was much use of us making any attempt.

A. He told me he could not find any other of his deputies—he had sent for several of them, but they were not at home, or something of that kind. He said I was all the one he could find.

A. These men that came for him, told him all they wanted of him, was to go out and make a demand of the crowd to disperse.

A. It was one of the railroad officials and one of the men that came for the sheriff.

A. On Friday I was out—Friday morning—to serve some writs, and didn't get back until pretty late in the morning. When I got in, he told me he wanted me to go along out to Twenty-eighth street.

A. Yes; that was on Friday. We two went down to the depot. The militia was gathered there. We stood there several hours. I think he came to the conclusion not to go out on that day. He told us we could go home again—would not go out before the next day. The next day I was out some place attending to some business in my district, and came back. He told me that the rest of the deputies were all out and they wanted men to go to Twenty-eighth street. That was the day before—that was on Friday, I think it was Friday—he attempted to raise a posse, I would not be certain. He said the rest of the deputies were all through town trying to get a posse to go and assist in making arrests, and told me he wanted me to go out and raise all the men I could—if I could find any, to bring them in. I went out and met a good many men that I knew, and some that I was not acquainted with, anymore than I knew their faces, and spoke to them about going out, and none of them would go.

A. There are a great many men in the city that their faces are familiar, but I don't know their names.

A. Some of them stated they didn't want to have anything to do with fighting against the workingmen, other men said, damned if they wanted to go out there to get killed, and such replies as that.

A. I asked if they would go out, and assist in making arrests at Twenty-eighth street.

Q. Did you say to any of them that you commanded them as a peace officer—you demanded their assistance as a posse to assist in suppressing the riot?

Q. Did the sheriff go out himself, and command men to join him in putting down the riot?

A. I couldn't state that, whether he did or didn't. I was not in the office much. I was away in the morning, and when I came back, he requested me to go out.

A. His directions were to go out in town, and get all the men I could to assist in making arrests in Twenty-eighth street. He said there was three or four men there they had warrants for, and they expected trouble, and wanted a posse.

Q. Didn't tell you to make your demands, or what language to use, nor gave you no written summons.

A. There was considerable delay, at least I thought so, before we made a start to go from the depot to Twenty-eighth street. There appeared to be a delay with the military. They had not all arrived at the one time, and those that had, had to have something to eat, before they were ready to go on. There appeared to be considerable delay. I think it was near four o'clock before a start was made from the depot—somewheres between three and four o'clock. The sheriff and I think seventeen assistants were in advance of the military, and marched up the railroad street in that way. I understood the object that we were taken for was to assist Constable Richardson in making some arrests. I understood that there was an order issued from court to arrest some ten or eleven of the ring-leaders of the strikers, and we were to assist Richardson in making the rescue, and the military, as I understood it at the time, was to protect us. I walked with my brother the greater part of the way. We went two by two, in advance of the military. We reached the neighborhood of Twenty-eighth street, and the crowd was so dense it was with difficulty that we could get through it. We worked our way on up to Twenty-eighth street. I stood about the center of the street for a considerable length of time, at Twenty-eighth street, where the railroad crosses. You have heard the statements made in regard to the disposition that was made of the military there, and my own views are just the same. They were put into what is termed a hollow square, and then what followed after that——

A. No, sir; my understanding before we started, and on the way there, and afterwards, was, that Mr. Pitcairn was to point out the men to this Constable Richardson, but I have never seen Mr. Pitcairn but once since, and that was before your honorable body, and I saw no men pointed out. There was no attempt made to arrest that I know of, and I think it was very well that it was so.

A. It was an impossibility to get through, that was just about it. They were there in large numbers. In front of us appeared to be one dense mass of people, for a square or more, and on either side. Of course they gave away to the military, to a certain extent, up to Twenty-eighth street, and there the military halted, and appeared not able to go any further.

A. The sheriff was just—the last place I saw him was just at what we would call the corner of this hollow square, on the left hand side as you go up. His posse was—the principal part of them—right in front among the crowd—immediately in front. I know that was my position, and there was several others, I noticed, that went with us, that were within a few feet of me at the time the order to charge bayonets was made. I was, perhaps, no further than to that wall, [indicating about fifteen feet,] from where I am sitting to where the charge was made.

A. None that I know of. I was looking for it; but there was nothing of the kind made. We were distinguished by a badge, so that we could have been known by any person.

A. He tried to; but the noise was so great I don't think he was heard, only by a very few in the immediate neighborhood.

A. I don't know really what he did say. I could see that he was talking; but I don't know what he did say. He was perhaps twenty (20) feet from me.

A. Yes; I presume you gentlemen were up there and can understand me. Just where Twenty-eighth street crosses the railroad there is a road which leads diagonally up the hill to the hospital. Just where that road connects with Twenty-eighth street there was a gate that was hung to close up that road. That gate was swung back, about two parts that way, and here was a pile of stones behind it—between it and this fence. There were two men standing behind that gate, and from the time that these men attempted to make a charge, these men commenced throwing stones at the military.

A. Yes; and there was quite a number of pieces of coal and other missiles thrown from the front or from this side here. These two men that throwed them were behind this gate.

A. East of the street; it is to close that road that runs up the hill to the hospital.

A. Yes, sir. I saw the two soldiers that were struck with missiles. One of them was knocked down. He got up in a minute. When he dropped his cap had dropped off, and when he got up he held his gun in his left hand this way, butt on the street, and he was wiping his face so, [indicating] it was bleeding very profusely. The other one didn't fall; he was struck some place about the shoulder. These are the only two that I saw that I knew to be struck, and it was over in that neighborhood where these two were struck that the firing commenced, the firing was in that direction, over towards the hill. I didn't see any stone thrown immediately in front, but there was coal and other missiles—pieces of sticks and things of that kind.

A. I don't know that I have, unless there will be some question occurring to you.

A. Yes; I live in Allegheny City. I live on Anderson street—that is, at the far end of the bridge.

A. Yes; there was a strike, and the railroad, as I understood it, and to all appearance, was in the possession of the strikers. There was no destruction of property.

A. At one time, I suppose, I saw two or three or four hundred together at the outer depot.

A. That was on Sunday. They didn't appear to destroy any property, everything appeared to be just at a stand-still. There was men standing talking, and didn't appear to molest anybody.

Q. What preparations were made by the city authorities of Allegheny City, to protect themselves and to keep down the riot?

A. Meetings of the citizens were called at the public square—the mayor's office—and of course there was a great deal of talk like there is at all these kind of meetings, and a good many propositions made, but the one that was adopted, was, that they should organize the citizens into a military force, and did it, so that General Lesieur—General Lesieur was the colonel of the round-head regiment during the late trouble. He is now a practicing physician in Allegheny City.

A. Sunday afternoon or Monday afternoon, the time of the troublest times, anyhow.

A. To let you know a part of what was done, I live adjacent to the bridge. There was a piece of artillery planted there, and sixteen men, armed with muskets, stood there as a guard for a week, every night, and I was informed it was so down at the other bridges, and the street cars that run over that line, many of them, were stopped just at the end of the bridge, and one of these military would look in to see who was in. There was persons coming, as I understood, from a distance here, roughs and rowdies, &c., and the object was that they shouldn't come in Allegheny City—they had to go back on this side.

A. I don't know the length of time it continued; there was more or less of them there for several days, until the thing got settled.

Q. What was done by the mayor and his subordinates prior to the citizens' meeting in Allegheny City—Mayor Philips?

A. Well, I don't know precisely what was done, it is only from hearsay, and that, of course, is not evidence.

A. Yes, sir. I don't know the number, but the number is quite small, compared with this city. I saw myself, on Sabbath day, a policeman stop two persons that were carrying stuff away, that afternoon, they had got from some of the cars here. It was plunder. They stopped them and took them with them, I presume to the lock-up. I don't know, but I suppose so.

A. Plunder and all. A question has been raised here frequently about who gave orders to fire up there. I think I was in a position that I would have known.

A. Yes; I heard no order given by any one, and during the time the firing was in progress, I saw a man that was represented, that I understood to be General Brinton, trying, apparently, to stop it. He was using his sword this way, [indicating,] under their guns, to get them to shoot up or quit. That was the idea conveyed to my mind.

Q. I would like to ask you another question or two in relation to this citizens' meeting in Allegheny City. Were the people generally in Allegheny City unwilling to respond, or did they willingly respond to the call of the mayor, and organize themselves into a military organization.

Q. How large was the response—was the meeting in response to the mayor's call?

A. This thing of fixing numbers is kind of guess work. I don't know. There was two or three hundred, perhaps, when I saw them. I think, if you would call Mayor Philips, he could give you that perhaps better than I could.

A. I don't know of a single one that refused in Allegheny City—I don't know of any.

Q. Did Mayor Philips take active measures to raise a force for the purpose of preventing or suppressing violence and riot?

A. I think so; and the evidence of it is, that he had his men at these bridges, guarding them, and keeping them there for a week, a piece of artillery and twelve or sixteen men at every bridge.

A. It was on Saturday. We started on Friday afternoon, or rather Saturday morning, to go up there, about four or five o'clock.

A. On arrival we had twenty-seven officers and one hundred and seventy-eight men on Twenty-eighth street.

Q. How long were you on duty there before the arrival of General Brinton and his troops.

A. I think when we got there it was between four and five o'clock, and stayed there until Brinton came. It was, I think, perhaps two or three o'clock; I think somewheres near that time.

Q. Was anything said or done by Colonel Gray about clearing the track before the arrival of General Brinton?

A. Yes. In the morning when we first got there there was a little excitement—it didn't amount to really very much, but by ten or eleven or twelve o'clock, one, &c., it got on worse all the time; that is, there was a great many more men got there, and Colonel Gray sent me down—I think it was between two and three o'clock—to give Colonel Hartley Howard his compliments, and said, if they would cooperate with them he would clean that track. Colonel Howard acknowledged the compliments, and said he didn't think it was proper to do that.

A. He was laying just about this gate Mr. Fife spoke about here a little while ago.

A. Commanding the hill—that is, we were laying there. I went and reported the matter to the colonel, that Colonel Howard didn't think it was justifiable in doing that, and that ended the matter.

A. Colonel Gray is senior in command. Colonel Gray sent down that word. I don't suppose that he meant or wanted to shoot or use any extra force, just simply wanted to get them to go away from the track; at least that is my impression.

A. No, sir; I don't think it was in the form of an order. Just simply stating, that, if he would cooperate, they would clear the track together. At that time we had four or five companies, and just as soon as one company would march by they would rush in again, and kept on that way all the time, from ten o'clock until the afternoon. It was very annoying, because the men were very nearly played out.

Q. You may state what condition Colonel Gray's regiment was in, as to obeying orders, and whether it was disposed to obey orders.

A. The majority of the men were. Of course, there were some few that were in sympathy with the strikers. In fact, almost everybody in Pittsburgh was in sympathy with the strikers.

A. I suppose there might not have been that many, not quite thirty-two you couldn't depend on, but there was thirty-two missing that night, and I didn't hear of any of them being shot, and I suppose they must have gone away.

A. Yes; that was generally the case. I would also state, that when we were disbanded at the Union depot we had twenty-eight officers and one hundred and forty-six men. We had one officer more.

A. So far as I can learn, as General Brinton gave the orders to Colonel Gray, Colonel Gray gave it to the officers and his men, and he disbanded—staff officers.

A. No, sir; we didn't re-assemble the next morning. I was over, and a great many of the other officers were over, to see what we could do, but we didn't re-assemble.

A. I want to state this fact right here, that I understand this committee to be appointed for the purpose of investigating this transaction. Now, with all due respect to the committee, my idea is, that the committee is appointed for the purpose of investigating the facts.

A. Yes, sir; a great many of the officers were there, and I suppose a great many of the men. Everything was so exciting we could not get them together.

Q. While you were on the hill, during Saturday, did your soldiers mingle among the rioters, or did they preserve order?

A. They preserved order. There was a few that would get leave of absence to go down street for something or other—very few.

A. We all remained there until the Philadelphia regiments were coming up there, and I got instructions from Colonel Grey to have the troops got ready to move.

A. I think we received orders to move down there about six o'clock. I guess, perhaps, a little later than that—perhaps a little earli

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE APPOINTED TO INVESTIGATE THE Railroad Riots IN JULY, 1877.

REPORT
OF THE
COMMITTEE APPOINTED TO INVESTIGATE
THE
Railroad Riots
IN JULY, 1877.